The Health Service - a quick story
dunkman
Posts: 19,646
In 1948, Britain came up with the free National Health Service. It is a genius idea. It enables people to get treated for illnesses/diseases regardless of how much they have, or dont have, in the bank. Simple. The End.
so why does the richest nation in the world still make its citizens pay for health treatment?
so why does the richest nation in the world still make its citizens pay for health treatment?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
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If we went to Universal Healthcare, wouldn't the citizens still be paying for their health treatment through taxes?
It really shocks me that people seem to think that government programs somehow magically show up with no cost.
It shocks me almost as much that people don't realize the cost of anything the government touches is going to be more expensive than otherwise.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
sure they would.
Isn't that about the time Britain lost its greatest nation in the world title and the US took it over?
Nah, I'm all for it! Those who disagree have all sorts of reasons why it won't work or we shouldn't do it but overall the pros outweigh the cons.
its got some problems so it has, but overall its one of the greatest humanitarian inventions in the last 100 years by a modern wealthy country.
its utterly respected by institutions and governments around the world.
and people keep saying its not 'free'.. look i know my taxes pay for it... but i've worked this out. if i earned $50,000 per year in the states which is the equivalent to £25,000 here... i dont pay any more tax than the US person... ok we might not have the greatest military in the world, but i could break both my arms and then not have too worry about whether my insurance would cover it all.
its a really great idea, the NHS, its something british people should be immensely proud of i think.
But if all citizens lost their jobs and stopped paying taxes, there would be no healthcare. It only works if the vast majority are still paying for it. Plus, the government is taking its cut as well.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
What I think a lot of people don't realize is that, in the U.S., we ALREADY spend more TAX money for healthcare per capita than any other nation. We're already paying for universal care, we're just not getting it. Things need to be restructured so we get what we're paying for.
the system is there to ensure that a) people continue to get sick and b) people will profit from their illnesses ...
also - programs such as this need to be appropriately funded ... it does not work if it is underfunded ...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Not true, especially with healthcare. The equivalent cost that Europeans pay for their healthcare in taxes is much lower than the average cost of a decent plan here.
there is a difference between profit and maximizing profit ... when you deregulate the industry to allow them to get sketchy drugs that have huge side effects to be passed - it ends up costing the tax payer more in the end to cure the people from the problems the drugs cure ...
That's not an apples to apples comparison.
What I'm saying is that if you compare program run by private industry in one country compared to a similar program run by the government of that country, the government program will generally cost quite a bit more.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Who cares? That's completely irrelevant. The government doesn't need to run healthcare - they just need to pay for it.
If everyone lost their jobs could they still pay insurance?
If you think about it reasonably just substitute "insurance payments" every time you use the words "more taxes"
There are more people paying taxes than there are that have health insurance.
Besides... The amount of insurance you pay on your group programs are driven up by those on your plan that are older and have more health issues so essentially if you are on any group plan you're already paying for other people's health problems.
Does this help with your viewpoint on universal healthcare?
Rainbows around the corner
(after everyone gets fried by lightning)
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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I hope the answer is no based on the smiles I see in the crowd at EPL games on TV. It would be a bad testimony for NHS if dental were covered.
That's not true at all. It's not like Drug Production is going to come to a sreaching hault because Universal Health Care is implemented. Do you honestly believe that we're going to stop the science of producing life-saving drugs because there is no profit in it anymore? That's absurd.
We just have to kill the mentality that we're locked in this system and that ther's no way out.
The United States hasn't even tried Universal Health Care, so how can they say it can't work?
all our dentists look like Austin Powers.
but if everyone lost their jobs in the US, wouldnt that be the exact same case? you couldnt pay your insurance?
Did I say anything that even remotely resembled "stop the science of producing life-saving drugs"? I said there would be less.
Furthermore, my comment was in reference to a post that seemed to claim that profit wasn't really an incentive in Canada. I tried to point out that profit does play a role.
You sure like to read one thing and extrapolate it into something that it's clearly not.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Well in fairness the European system of universal healthcare won't fly here in America... which is why we need our own kind of universal system like the one Obama is proposing.
Right now my wife has insurance through the school system where she works and is charged $270 a month to be on the group program that she's on. My wife's rate is 75% paid by her employer. Since the group rate includes many retired school employees her rate is extraordinarily high.
With Obama's plan we can keep the same insurance sans the group rate overcharge and actually save over $200 per month.
It's good for everyone!!!
i have no fucking clue.
yes, i'm bitter about it. you would be too if you were in my shoes.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265733
How fair is your company's group rate if you are a non-smoker and you work someplace where there are 70% smokers on the group policy. Yeah sure, your rate may be lower than theirs at first but just wait til several of them get cancer... then your rate goes up as well.
Same old story. Our government has no problems with the billions of dollars spent for that. But when it comes to looking after the health of all our citizens it's a different story.
You'll get no argument from me about the ridiculous amount of money wasted in Iraq. That's why we have to demand lower taxes.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Think about how lucrative that was for Haliburton. The US gov't destroys a country and then hires a corporation to come in and rebuild it. Doesn't get much better for those seeking profit.
It seems it would be cheaper to have healthcare for all then the war...
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