Are humans always morally equally valuable?

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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Jeanie wrote:
    Nothing is always. :)

    That statement would disprove itself ;)
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    farfromglorified wrote:
    That statement would disprove itself ;)

    probably ffg! :) I'm no mental giant, so get confused real quick when trying to grasp big concepts. :D
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Binaural wrote:
    It would, I apologise. The example is a borrowed one. The idea is that each, the human and the dog, can be saved easily however, saving one makes it IMPOSSIBLE to save the other. I do apologise, I forget how the example was worded, but hopegully you get the idea.

    Got it. :)

    Still not sure I'd always choose the human over the animal. :)

    I mean what if it was a choice between Lassie and George W? ;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    baraka wrote:
    Are morals relative or absolute?
    My morals are pretty absolute as relates to myself, and in the grand scheme, they are relative, as there are countless ways in which moral can be interpreted. I think mine are the best, but acknowledge that there are different ways of seeing it. :)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    I don't think it's possible to be truthfully immoral. When we commit acts of immorality, we must at some point lie to others or ourselves. Reality and emotions are intertwined and create a balance when not interrupted by self-deceit.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Jeanie wrote:
    probably ffg! :) I'm no mental giant, so get confused real quick when trying to grasp big concepts. :D

    Sorry, I didn't intend that to be condescending or anything. It's just that if "Nothing is always", that would mean "there are always no constants". It's like saying "there are no absolutes" when that statement would be an absolute ;)
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Sorry, I didn't intend that to be condescending or anything. It's just that if "Nothing is always", that would mean "there are always no constants". It's like saying "there are no absolutes" when that statement would be an absolute ;)

    Or, it could just be a statement.
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    Or, it could just be a statement.

    A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    farfromglorified wrote:
    A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".
    ...or it is hard to determine. Somewhat true, somewhat false depending on context and interpretation. Grey exists! ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    Grey exists

    That would be true. Always. ;)
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    farfromglorified wrote:
    That would be true. Always. ;)
    Gah! :p
    Anyway, not every statement, no matter whether it refers (i think this may be a key word here) to a truth, fact or whatever, needs to be an absolutist statement. That way you can never say anything without having 15 disclamatory (is that a word?) or mediating words to make it edge past.

    I can easily tag ...except this statement onto the claim of no absolutes. And remind of the old adage "no rule without an exception".

    Anyway. Every statement is not about establishing an absolute. The way one can be certain, but maybe not absolutely certain, you know.

    Enough of this. Your mother! :p:D

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    Gah! :p
    Anyway, not every statement, no matter whether it refers (i think this may be a key word here) to a truth, fact or whatever, needs to be an absolutist statement. That way you can never say anything without having 15 disclamatory (is that a word?) or mediating words to make it edge past.

    I can easily tag ...except this statement onto the claim of no absolutes. And remind of the old adage "no rule without an exception".

    Anyway. Every statement is not about establishing an absolute. The way one can be certain, but maybe not absolutely certain, you know.

    Enough of this. Your mother! :p:D

    Peace
    Dan

    Hehehehe....don't bring my mother into this!

    And I'm sorry that I'm laughing hysterically at a post meant to "disprove" absolutes that contains no less than 4 absolutes in it :P
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehehehe....don't bring my mother into this!

    And I'm sorry that I'm laughing hysterically at a post meant to "disprove" absolutes that contains no less than 4 absolutes in it :P
    Final word from me. They are not absolutes unless I explicitly state that they are. A statement is not an absolute alone. It may be declaration of belief, intent, pondering or whatever. An absolute is unchanging.

    In any case this would mean so many absolutes, that it would be rendered silly in 2 minutes of any interaction. I could try to flip it over and ask what is not an absolute statement.

    Anyway, this is nitpicking. (and I keep posting dont I :p)

    I'll shut up and go make dinner now.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".

    I completely disagree. A statement can contain any number elements that do not involve a "true or false" premise.
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    I completely disagree. A statement can contain any number elements that do not involve a "true or false" premise.

    Then how come none of the above do?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    ffg wrote:
    A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".
    gue_barium wrote:
    I completely disagree. A statement can contain any number elements that do not involve a "true or false" premise.


    For instance: Disagreement. I'm not saying your statement is true or false, I'm simply disagreeing with it.
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    For instance: Disagreement. I'm not saying your statement is true or false, I'm simply disagreeing with it.

    On what grounds?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    On what grounds?

    I believe I just showed you.
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    I believe I just showed you.

    You did show me. You believe my statement was false. You even demonstrate that here:

    "Or, it could just be a statement."
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    My morals are pretty absolute as relates to myself, and in the grand scheme, they are relative, as there are countless ways in which moral can be interpreted. I think mine are the best, but acknowledge that there are different ways of seeing it. :)

    Peace
    Dan

    I tend to agree with you OutOfBreath, at least with the 'relative' part. My first impression is the fact that morality is different from one culture to another and varies within a given culture over time. Wouldn't this fact extinguish the notion that morals are absolute? It comes down to the absolutists claiming a hypothesis contrary to direct observation and experience which imposes a rather high burden.

    You always have such a balanced perspective ;)
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein

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