So you don't believe its anything more than a desire to protect our own species?
no i don't. i'm certain only Mankind has the time to think about shit like this. all the other species are too busy just surviving. perhaps also arrogance on the part of Mankind. we are supposedly top of the food chain afterall. or so we tell ourselves.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no i don't. i'm certain only Mankind has the time to think about shit like this. all the other species are too busy just surviving. perhaps also arrogance on the part of Mankind. we are supposedly top of the food chain afterall. or so we tell ourselves.
I agree about the conciousness arguement. But then what about people who suffer from a serious or heavy disability, or as controversial as this is, children who aren't capable of thinking of life in such terms?
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
I agree about the conciousness arguement. But then what about people who suffer from a serious or heavy disability, or as controversial as this is, children who aren't capable of thinking of life in such terms?
what about them?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But is the fact that something has the potential to be something else a good justified reason for treating it as such?
yes. we are talking about the innocence of children. they are uncorrupted and thus should be treated as such and be cherished for it. we must give a child the benefit of the doubt until its actions deem us to warrant otherwise.
of course when we do this we must decide when the innocence of childhood is lost and if it even existed in the first place. is childhood universal and if not how can we possibly apply our own morality to another's existence.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It would, I apologise. The example is a borrowed one. The idea is that each, the human and the dog, can be saved easily however, saving one makes it IMPOSSIBLE to save the other. I do apologise, I forget how the example was worded, but hopegully you get the idea.
Got it.
Still not sure I'd always choose the human over the animal.
I mean what if it was a choice between Lassie and George W?
My morals are pretty absolute as relates to myself, and in the grand scheme, they are relative, as there are countless ways in which moral can be interpreted. I think mine are the best, but acknowledge that there are different ways of seeing it.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I don't think it's possible to be truthfully immoral. When we commit acts of immorality, we must at some point lie to others or ourselves. Reality and emotions are intertwined and create a balance when not interrupted by self-deceit.
probably ffg! I'm no mental giant, so get confused real quick when trying to grasp big concepts.
Sorry, I didn't intend that to be condescending or anything. It's just that if "Nothing is always", that would mean "there are always no constants". It's like saying "there are no absolutes" when that statement would be an absolute
Sorry, I didn't intend that to be condescending or anything. It's just that if "Nothing is always", that would mean "there are always no constants". It's like saying "there are no absolutes" when that statement would be an absolute
A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".
...or it is hard to determine. Somewhat true, somewhat false depending on context and interpretation. Grey exists!
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Gah!
Anyway, not every statement, no matter whether it refers (i think this may be a key word here) to a truth, fact or whatever, needs to be an absolutist statement. That way you can never say anything without having 15 disclamatory (is that a word?) or mediating words to make it edge past.
I can easily tag ...except this statement onto the claim of no absolutes. And remind of the old adage "no rule without an exception".
Anyway. Every statement is not about establishing an absolute. The way one can be certain, but maybe not absolutely certain, you know.
Enough of this. Your mother!
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Gah!
Anyway, not every statement, no matter whether it refers (i think this may be a key word here) to a truth, fact or whatever, needs to be an absolutist statement. That way you can never say anything without having 15 disclamatory (is that a word?) or mediating words to make it edge past.
I can easily tag ...except this statement onto the claim of no absolutes. And remind of the old adage "no rule without an exception".
Anyway. Every statement is not about establishing an absolute. The way one can be certain, but maybe not absolutely certain, you know.
Enough of this. Your mother!
Peace
Dan
Hehehehe....don't bring my mother into this!
And I'm sorry that I'm laughing hysterically at a post meant to "disprove" absolutes that contains no less than 4 absolutes in it :P
And I'm sorry that I'm laughing hysterically at a post meant to "disprove" absolutes that contains no less than 4 absolutes in it :P
Final word from me. They are not absolutes unless I explicitly state that they are. A statement is not an absolute alone. It may be declaration of belief, intent, pondering or whatever. An absolute is unchanging.
In any case this would mean so many absolutes, that it would be rendered silly in 2 minutes of any interaction. I could try to flip it over and ask what is not an absolute statement.
Anyway, this is nitpicking. (and I keep posting dont I )
I'll shut up and go make dinner now.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
My morals are pretty absolute as relates to myself, and in the grand scheme, they are relative, as there are countless ways in which moral can be interpreted. I think mine are the best, but acknowledge that there are different ways of seeing it.
Peace
Dan
I tend to agree with you OutOfBreath, at least with the 'relative' part. My first impression is the fact that morality is different from one culture to another and varies within a given culture over time. Wouldn't this fact extinguish the notion that morals are absolute? It comes down to the absolutists claiming a hypothesis contrary to direct observation and experience which imposes a rather high burden.
You always have such a balanced perspective
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Comments
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
no i don't. i'm certain only Mankind has the time to think about shit like this. all the other species are too busy just surviving. perhaps also arrogance on the part of Mankind. we are supposedly top of the food chain afterall. or so we tell ourselves.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
what about them?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
i would see children as being even more so than adults. they are innocent and yet to be corrupted. the potential there is limitless.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
yes.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
yes. we are talking about the innocence of children. they are uncorrupted and thus should be treated as such and be cherished for it. we must give a child the benefit of the doubt until its actions deem us to warrant otherwise.
of course when we do this we must decide when the innocence of childhood is lost and if it even existed in the first place. is childhood universal and if not how can we possibly apply our own morality to another's existence.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That statement would disprove itself
probably ffg!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Got it.
Still not sure I'd always choose the human over the animal.
I mean what if it was a choice between Lassie and George W?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Sorry, I didn't intend that to be condescending or anything. It's just that if "Nothing is always", that would mean "there are always no constants". It's like saying "there are no absolutes" when that statement would be an absolute
Or, it could just be a statement.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
A statement is either true, or it's false. There is no such thing as "just a statement".
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That would be true. Always.
Anyway, not every statement, no matter whether it refers (i think this may be a key word here) to a truth, fact or whatever, needs to be an absolutist statement. That way you can never say anything without having 15 disclamatory (is that a word?) or mediating words to make it edge past.
I can easily tag ...except this statement onto the claim of no absolutes. And remind of the old adage "no rule without an exception".
Anyway. Every statement is not about establishing an absolute. The way one can be certain, but maybe not absolutely certain, you know.
Enough of this. Your mother!
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Hehehehe....don't bring my mother into this!
And I'm sorry that I'm laughing hysterically at a post meant to "disprove" absolutes that contains no less than 4 absolutes in it :P
In any case this would mean so many absolutes, that it would be rendered silly in 2 minutes of any interaction. I could try to flip it over and ask what is not an absolute statement.
Anyway, this is nitpicking. (and I keep posting dont I
I'll shut up and go make dinner now.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I completely disagree. A statement can contain any number elements that do not involve a "true or false" premise.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Then how come none of the above do?
For instance: Disagreement. I'm not saying your statement is true or false, I'm simply disagreeing with it.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
On what grounds?
I believe I just showed you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
You did show me. You believe my statement was false. You even demonstrate that here:
"Or, it could just be a statement."
I tend to agree with you OutOfBreath, at least with the 'relative' part. My first impression is the fact that morality is different from one culture to another and varies within a given culture over time. Wouldn't this fact extinguish the notion that morals are absolute? It comes down to the absolutists claiming a hypothesis contrary to direct observation and experience which imposes a rather high burden.
You always have such a balanced perspective
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein