If 9/11 was an inside job, why hasn't Al Qaeda come forward?

farfromglorified

keeponrockin wrote:

It wasn't an inside job. We're they asleep at the wheel? Yes. Was it an inside job? No.

Was that wheel made by Halliburton? Cause if it was..........

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

That's your business, not mine. I don't trust people who have no interest in earning trust. Bin Laden's statements, in either direction, count for little.

so then you're undecided or you believe one or the other?

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm sure Bin Laden's going to give lots of interviews claiming responsibility, just to make things clear for people like you. And I'm sure the trustworthy fellows at "whatreallyhappened.com" know a lot about Bin Laden's physical situation as he crawls from hole to hole in Afghanistan.

maybe, but it's odd how different bin laden looks in that confession video they found compared to all the other vidoes of him both before and after 9/11...i guess that was just a bad towel day?

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

:rolleyes:

I'm sure Bin Laden's going to give lots of interviews claiming responsibility, just to make things clear for people like you. And I'm sure the trustworthy fellows at "whatreallyhappened.com" know a lot about Bin Laden's physical situation as he crawls from hole to hole in Afghanistan.

also what you said makes little sense...you say 'i'm sure he's going to give lots of interviews claiming responsibility...' but yet he'll make confession tapes and hand them out to friends??? hahahahaha

maybe the great pumpkin did it

nice way to dodge the point...he looks different in that confession tape then in any other video of him before or after it, he writes w/ the wrong hand in the confession tape, he wears gold which is forbidden...you can just not answer any of those inconsitencies and instead poke fun at the website, have fun

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

also what you said makes little sense...you say 'i'm sure he's going to give lots of interviews claiming responsibility...' but yet he'll make confession tapes and hand them out to friends??? hahahahaha

Not so funny when you consider that he has very good reason to operate in such a manner....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1791329,000500020005.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Shah_Massoud#Death

nice way to dodge the point...he looks different in that confession tape then in any other video of him before or after it, he writes w/ the wrong hand in the confession tape, he wears gold which is forbidden...you can just not answer any of those inconsitencies and instead poke fun at the website, have fun

I have no answer for those questions. You don't either, except for the answers that have been handed to you. Ridiculously, you'll accept that this tape was made by some kind of US conspiracy without apparently considering that the "fake Bin Laden" tape was actually comissioned by Al Qaeda itself. You wear your assumptions on your sleeve and I don't even think you see that.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Not so funny when you consider that he has very good reason to operate in such a manner....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1791329,000500020005.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Shah_Massoud#Death


I have no answer for those questions. You don't either, except for the answers that have been handed to you. Ridiculously, you'll accept that this tape was made by some kind of US conspiracy without apparently considering that the "fake Bin Laden" tape was actually comissioned by Al Qaeda itself. You wear your assumptions on your sleeve and I don't even think you see that.

no, i'm basing it on my eyes, not what ppl have handed to me...i can SEE what he looks like in all the other videso compared to what he looks like in that video...i'm not relying on a letter the hindustan times mentions bin laden wrote...you claim i am just accepting what i want, what are you basing yours on?

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

no, i'm basing it on my eyes, not what ppl have handed to me...i can SEE what he looks like in all the other videso compared to what he looks like in that video...

No, you're seeing what the conspiracy theorists want to show you and then playing into the pre-fab conclusions they attach to it.

Very little about that original tape is known, including when it was made. Furthermore, little is known about Bin Laden's conditions before and after. You're not talking about a political figure that's on TV everyday.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

No, you're seeing what the conspiracy theorists want to show you and then playing into the pre-fab conclusions they attach to it.

Very little about that original tape is known, including when it was made. Furthermore, little is known about Bin Laden's conditions before and after. You're not talking about a political figure that's on TV everyday.

and you went out and specifically did research on it firsthand?? i think not...everything you have read or heard has been 2nd hand, too. i hope you realize that.

the images of bin laden in the confession tape look nothing like the images of him in ANY OTHER video EVER made of him...period. so you would rather imagine something was wrong w/ him that day and accept what others tell you? everything you have said about me can be applied right back to you

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

and you went out and specifically did research on it firsthand??

Yes. Bin Laden is in my basement. He told me you're behind 9/11. I believe him. We're putting a youtube documentary together about it. Moby is doing the soundtrack.

i think not...everything you have read or heard has been 2nd hand, too. i hope you realize that.

I do realize that. I also realize that I don't believe every 2nd hand thing I read just because it fits into a conclusion I already came to.

the images of bin laden in the confession tape look nothing like the images of him in ANY OTHER video EVER made of him...period.

Not period. He looks 15 lbs heavier...wow. Not possible!!! And your comparisons? You have a a very small number of available comparisons, the vast majority of which are of a ill man on the run in the mountains of Afghanistan.

Tell me, which one is the "fake Eddie Vedder":

http://www.frenz.com/16min/img/glamvedder.jpg

http://www.pearl-jam.com/2000/ev-nader/2000-10-10_EV-Nader-14.jpg

so you would rather imagine something was wrong w/ him that day and accept what others tell you? everything you have said about me can be applied right back to you

I understand that you would like to pretend there is evidentiary equality between people who believe Al Qaeda is responsible and those who do not. The next time I start fixating on which hand George Bush is writing with in order to attempt to make a much larger point, I'll agree with you.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Yes. Bin Laden is in my basement. He told me you're behind 9/11. I believe him. We're putting a youtube documentary together about it. Moby is doing the soundtrack.

so, in other words the answer is NONE, you are simply accepting what you are told?

farfromglorified wrote:

I do realize that. I also realize that I don't believe every 2nd hand thing I read just because it fits into a conclusion I already came to.

nor do i

farfromglorified wrote:

I understand that you would like to pretend there is evidentiary equality between people who believe Al Qaeda is responsible and those who do not. The next time I start fixating on which hand George Bush is writing with in order to attempt to make a much larger point, I'll agree with you.

no, i take into account:
ppl who SPOKE to bin laden write he denies any involvement

the only sources saying he did it are
-the government tellin us so
-letters the hindustan times saw
-a video tape the us found in which the person looks nothing like bin laden at any other point in time

writing w/ the wrong hand is a big deal, but i guess you think he suddenly wondered what it would be like to write w/ the wrong hand? you don't want to think it's an important issue b/c it doesn't fit your point of view.

even the fbi says htey have NO evidence!

"When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” "

momofglynn

It could be completely off the wall....I am in no means siding one way or another...

Could it be, a slight possibility...the video tape of Bin laden could had been filmed through a mirror....like a self portrait kind of thing....an old looking glass may be wavy which could distort. Could make it look like the wrong hand is writing. Could add weight. (just because I just spent the weekend doing self portraits something to think about it reading this thread)....maybe.....maybe not.....I don't know.

doesn't Bin Laden have a ton of illnesses too? Like liver issues? That could cause bloating any day. My father had liver issues, when he passed away, he had something like 9 gallons of fluid in him. If Bin Laden is hiding out, perhaps missed a couple days of medication, could make his appearance completely different from one day to the next.

All I do know is I have just spent the night crying watching that film from the 2 french guys. Remembering going to NYC less than 10 days after and just walking around the city talking with people, hugging complete strangers. It was the only thing I could do. I went as far as Ray Pizza's I think, to where they closed off the lower part of Manhattan, just walking looking at all the flyers. I felt that I was so lucky to be alive and I hated myself for it in all at the same time.

Again there is weight to both sides. I am not informed enough to say one did it over the other. I am just reading this thread and these are my thoughts.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

so, in other words the answer is NONE, you are simply accepting what you are told?

No. The answer is sarcasm.

nor do i

no, i take into account:
ppl who SPOKE to bin laden write he denies any involvement

But what about the ppl who SPOKE to Bin Laden who says he doesn't deny involvement:

the only sources saying he did it are
-the government tellin us so
-letters the hindustan times saw
-a video tape the us found in which the person looks nothing like bin laden at any other point in time

So let me get this straight. Video tapes where "Bin Laden" admits to the attacks and looks like Bin Laden mean nothing, for instance the 10/04 tape?

writing w/ the wrong hand is a big deal, but i guess you think he suddenly wondered what it would be like to write w/ the wrong hand?

See, this is what I mean. You haven't even seen the video. If you had, you'd know that in the video Bin Laden isn't writing. Furthermore, you'd realize you're not even talking about one video. The "fat bin laden" appears in a 2001 video, the "wrong hand" bin laden appears in a 2004 video. I doubt you've watched these tapes. I doubt you've even attempted to look into this.

you don't want to think it's an important issue b/c it doesn't fit your point of view.

No. I don't think it's an important issue because I have nothing to suggest it is an issue.

even the fbi says htey have NO evidence!

"When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” "

The Justice Department certainly doesn't have enough evidence to link Bin Laden to 9/11. Until they could prove that he planned it, there's no way they'd indict him. Why does that seem so strange to you?

SweetHarmonics

it seems to me that Bin Laden would want to immediately take credit for 9/11 in the same manner he did with the embassy bombings and the USS Cole

the fact that he didn't do that until sometime after (that tape is a whole argument in itself) is but another loose screw in the fabrication of the official story

farfromglorified

SweetHarmonics wrote:

it seems to me that Bin Laden would want to immediately take credit for 9/11 in the same manner he did with the embassy bombings and the USS Cole

the fact that he didn't do that until sometime after (that tape is a whole argument in itself) is but another loose screw in the fabrication of the official story

:sigh:

Bin Laden did deny involvement in the Cole attacks.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

No. The answer is sarcasm.

so how do you arrive at your conclusion? if it's not based 100% on what OTHER ppl tell you then how? have you gone around and done research? no, you are simply accepting what someone tells you b/c it fits your already conceived conclusions.

farfromglorified wrote:

See, this is what I mean. You haven't even seen the video. If you had, you'd know that in the video Bin Laden isn't writing. Furthermore, you'd realize you're not even talking about one video. The "fat bin laden" appears in a 2001 video, the "wrong hand" bin laden appears in a 2004 video. I doubt you've watched these tapes. I doubt you've even attempted to look into this.

the writing w/ the wrong hand was from the Jalalabad tape...have you watched it? all 59 minutes of it?

foudn this interesting, too

Professor Bruce Lawrence has described the tape as "like a voice from the grave".

Lawrence recently analyzed more than 20 complete speeches and interviews of the al Qaida leader for his book. He says the new message is missing several key elements.

farfromglorified wrote:

No. I don't think it's an important issue because I have nothing to suggest it is an issue.

convenient for you, i guess...what would occam's razor say about a tape showing someone at least 15 lbs heavier, writing w/ the wrong hand, wearing gold <which is forbidden, especially around extremists>...? woudl they say he gained the weight real quick then dropped it fast, too? and that he just thought it'd be fun to write w/ the other hand? that religious extrmists didn't care he is wearing gold when it is forbidden?

farfromglorified wrote:

The Justice Department certainly doesn't have enough evidence to link Bin Laden to 9/11. Until they could prove that he planned it, there's no way they'd indict him. Why does that seem so strange to you?

but what of his confessions??? a confession was enough to convict the west memphis 3

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

so how do you arrive at your conclusion? if it's not based 100% on what OTHER ppl tell you then how? have you gone around and done research? no, you are simply accepting what someone tells you b/c it fits your already conceived conclusions.

No. I listen to what others tell me and then come to a conclusion. I don't filter what I hear through an "Al Qaeda did it" filter. Crazy, I know.

the writing w/ the wrong hand was from the Jalalabad tape...have you watched it? all 59 minutes of it?

This is the largest event in US history in our lifetime. Of course I watched it. I read the transcript. I read the competing transcripts.

foudn this interesting, too

Professor Bruce Lawrence has described the tape as "like a voice from the grave".

Lawrence recently analyzed more than 20 complete speeches and interviews of the al Qaida leader for his book. He says the new message is missing several key elements.

Ok.

convenient for you, i guess...what would occam's razor say about a tape showing someone at least 15 lbs heavier, writing w/ the wrong hand, wearing gold <which is forbidden, especially around extremists>...? woudl they say he gained the weight real quick then dropped it fast, too? and that he just thought it'd be fun to write w/ the other hand? that religious extrmists didn't care he is wearing gold when it is forbidden?

Occam's Razor would say that a man who lost 15 lbs hasn't been eating and/or has been excercising. And that's pretty consistent with a man on the run in the mountains of Afghanistan.

Occam's Razor would say that a man "writing with the wrong hand" isn't writing, isn't able to use his other hand, is ambidextrous or that your ideas of his handedness are wrong, to start.

Occam's Razor would say that a man who would slaughter human beings probably isn't afraid of doing something forbidden by his religion. But "gold rings" aren't forbidden by Islam. They're just disliked by Mohammed. Therefore, many Muslims don't wear them. Furthermore, you don't even know the ring is gold.

Occam's Razor would not allow you to assume that the videos were doctored by the US government based on that evidence.

but what of his confessions??? a confession was enough to convict the west memphis 3

Bin Laden hasn't been convicted.

jlew24asu

El_Kabong wrote:

bin laden has denied any involvement several times.

do you believe him?

lalalalaaaaaaaa

I'm not sure why it matters to anyone whether Bin Laden has denied involvment or not, but from what I know, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is always pointed to as the main organizer for the attacks, not Bin Laden. My interpretation has always been that the 9/11 attacks weren't one of Bin Laden's personal projects, but he knew about the plans, and probably gave his blessing. I think the point is that the planners were al-Qaeda operatives who are in-line with Bin Laden's ideals.

Affroman

I recently watched the 911 Coverup movie on google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&q=911+coverup) . Judging from the amount of times it has been viewed on google alone (2.6 million) I assume a lot of people have not only seen this video but are also aware of the conspiracy theories.

I can't say whether or not I truly believe everything. Both point and counter-point use circumstantial evidence to prove themselves. Unfortunately they both also used skewed media forms and can argumentively lead the viewer to complete disarray (as i have). Also, the "argument", or in some sense the "non-argument", that American media has presented is obviously going to be the publicly accepted theory. (i.e. terrorists plotted a plan crash into the WTC towers)

This is what I have taken away from the whole conspiracy theory argument and all I have to ask is a "what if?"......

For argumentative purposes I propose to myself.. "What if our government had complete knowledge of the attacks or heck..even planned the attacks themselves?" Given the fact (and yes the fact) that the general population in a time of crisis will be stuck in a complete state of disarray (a state of disarray which causes people to act with their hearts and not with their minds) isn't it highly plausible that a government could get away with such an act?

I am really not making arguments to say the conspiracy theories are true, but rather the fact that they could be true. It's rather alarming and quite frankly, sickening to feel as an American. In other words, having just a small hint of belief in such a crude possibility makes me feel sick. Realistically, I am not alone on this either. Is this a bi-product of American lifestyle and/or a bi-product of misinformed media biasism? It's not a profound recent breakthrough that media has always and will always be about the bottom line (i.e. $$) Doesn't it make you sad that this is a sad truth about American lifestyle?

How many times have you been in a situation where information goes "under the table"? If you have never done anything under the table or "under the radar" I don't think you have truly embraced being an American, because quite frankly it's a part of the American lifestyle. I trust that the CIA uses is non-public information to keep American secure, but isn't it also highly plausible that non-public information can also hurt the non-informed audience into believing what the informed party wants? I am not asking nor arguing that private information be made public but rather, as an American I'd like to less doubt my government as I do now and that saddens me.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

No. I listen to what others tell me and then come to a conclusion. I don't filter what I hear through an "Al Qaeda did it" filter. Crazy, I know.

odd considering initially i believed bin laden did it...

so, in other words ALL your conclusions came from what OTHERS told you? so how is that any different, i mean other than it's you and you seemingly can never do any wrong?

farfromglorified wrote:

This is the largest event in US history in our lifetime. Of course I watched it. I read the transcript. I read the competing transcripts.

then you'd know what video it was on, it was on the origianl 'confession' tape

farfromglorified wrote:

Occam's Razor would say that a man who lost 15 lbs hasn't been eating and/or has been excercising. And that's pretty consistent with a man on the run in the mountains of Afghanistan.

but wasn't he already on the run? what about other characteristics that do not match up

farfromglorified wrote:

Occam's Razor would say that a man "writing with the wrong hand" isn't writing, isn't able to use his other hand, is ambidextrous or that your ideas of his handedness are wrong, to start.

then you better alert the cia and have them change his file!!!

farfromglorified wrote:

Occam's Razor would say that a man who would slaughter human beings probably isn't afraid of doing something forbidden by his religion. But "gold rings" aren't forbidden by Islam. They're just disliked by Mohammed. Therefore, many Muslims don't wear them. Furthermore, you don't even know the ring is gold.

and you think all the other radical muslim extremists he surrounds himself w/ wouldn't care?

farfromglorified wrote:

Bin Laden hasn't been convicted.

maybe b/c there is no proof other than questionable videos and letters?

i love how you twist things ot get out of answering them!!!! a confession from a retarded kid was enough to send 3 ppl to prison for murder...but when it comes to 9/11 a video taped confession made, supposedly, by the person who did the crime isn't??

you say i only think this b/c i got the info from someone else...well, how'd YOU get your info? did you go to afghanistan and iraq and talk to ppl? or are you simply relying on what others told you?

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

odd considering initially i believed bin laden did it...

so, in other words ALL your conclusions came from what OTHERS told you? so how is that any different, i mean other than it's you and you seemingly can never do any wrong?

Do you understand the difference between being told something on faith and being told something on science? In other words, do you understand the fundamental difference between listening to a preacher and listening to a researcher?

then you'd know what video it was on, it was on the origianl 'confession' tape

Bin Laden doesn't write in the original confessions tape. Bin Laden "writes" in the 2004 tape.

but wasn't he already on the run? what about other characteristics that do not match up

No. Osama Bin Laden wasn't truly "on the run" until the attacks.

then you better alert the cia and have them change his file!!!

Ok.

and you think all the other radical muslim extremists he surrounds himself w/ wouldn't care?

I don't know. I doubt the muslim extremists surrounding Bin Laden make it a priority to challenge their leader's piety.

maybe b/c there is no proof other than questionable videos and letters?

That's precisely why. Not because they're "questionable" -- those videos have been independently verified -- but rather because they demonstrate the guilt of Al Qaeda as opposed to the guilt of Bin Laden.

i love how you twist things ot get out of answering them!!!! a confession from a retarded kid was enough to send 3 ppl to prison for murder...but when it comes to 9/11 a video taped confession made, supposedly, by the person who did the crime isn't??

So in other words you want to see more cases like WM3? I don't really know how to address that.

you say i only think this b/c i got the info from someone else...well, how'd YOU get your info? did you go to afghanistan and iraq and talk to ppl? or are you simply relying on what others told you?

See my first comment. And read this:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NCSTAR1-5ExecutiveSummary.pdf