Anyone else sick of all the bullshit...

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

Your grandmother sounds great . Don't get me wrong, I ALWAYS vote.. and I always wonder what the bloody point is

And I'm always grateful for the men and women who came before me to GIVE me the right to vote and to give us the great country we COULD have... I'm not so sure they'd be overly impressed with the state of politics here these days though

It's interesting that you say that Helen, because my family are only here in Australia because the politics where so bad in Ireland back a 100 years ago that my family immigrated because they wanted a better life.

And I guess because of that we have always, as a family, watched the political climate in Ireland with interest. I really thought that things were getting much better there. But then I'm sure that it's as you say, and your pollies are as bad as ours are here. And across the globe so it would seem.
We really can't rely on the media anymore for accurate information about what the world's politicians are up to. Or the corporations either for that matter.

I vote and wonder why I bother too. But I'll keep doing it, even though it only encourages the bastards!!

My Granny rocks!! She's as sharp as a tack! And I reckon there's so many good things about her that I can forgive her making me suffer through Val Doonigan and The Irish Rovers for most of my life!!

onelongsong

Heineken Helen wrote:

we're fed on a daily basis by governments ALL over the world? Be it George, or Tony, or Tom, or Bertie or whatever the fuck your president/prime minister is called... they're ALL full of shit. NONE of them have 'the peoples' best interests in mind... so get over it. We can argue all day every day about whether or not the US president is worse than the Iranian one... they're all fucking liars and all as bad as eachother. I don't care which lie YOU find to be the best but I don't want any of them.

So... Iranian waters? Iraqi waters? Who knows? Who to believe? Which lie SOUNDED the most genuine?

We, like the US, have elections coming up and I personally find all the lies we're being fed right now hilarious. Of COURSE if we vote them in for a third term they WILL do sooooooooo much for the good of this country... but hang on, what the fuck was wrong with the first TWO terms? Is it third time lucky or something?

Don't mind me... I'm really tired... but sometimes I wonder why you all argue over WHICH world leader we should believe and WHEN! My advice? None of them. Even in Northern Ireland... a 'country' with probably THE most fucked up 'government' of the lot... they manage to sit together every so often and agree to give themselves a payrise :rolleyes: . Ya rarely hear them fighting over THAT.

those who know the least usually complain the most. what have you done to change things?

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

See, I think it's mainly working class countries that are capable of overthrowing governments... we used to be pretty good at it here too but then we got rich and once we have a government that puts economy before all else, we get complacent. Ok, I really don't think the problems here are THAT bad compared to a lot of countries obviously but things can always be better. They're quick enough to build headquarters for multinationals while our kids are attending schools in prefabs and general shit like that.

Ah! Sorry Helen, just noticed this one. I must have missed it before.

But yes I agree, it seems as soon as the economy takes off people become less willing to fight for their rights. It's sad.

Sounds like the multinationals have taken over there as well.

They're like a plague.

We have the same problems here. The government has sold out every asset from under us and pretty much all is now privately owned by offshore companies with profits going overseas. And service standards dropping everyday. It's too sad when I think about the ramifications of that long term.

But yes our kids and health care and other community services are suffering because of it. It must be a world wide phenamonen (?).
Be all those World Economic Forum freaks and their meetings me thinks.

Binaural

Heineken Helen wrote:

Even in Northern Ireland... a 'country' with probably THE most fucked up 'government' of the lot... they manage to sit together every so often and agree to give themselves a payrise :rolleyes: . Ya rarely hear them fighting over THAT.

The reason we don't have a government is because of those biggoted fuckers in the DUP. So help me if I ever met Ian Paisley I'd hurt him :mad:

Heineken Helen

tybird wrote:

Oh, yes you do Helen, you're a winner in our book. Yes, it all seems like shit sometimes...but if you let hope die, then it is all shit.

As for "power to the people" and "overthrow the government," we have seen how well that worked in Russia/Soviet Union/Russia and many of the post-colonial African nations.

Oh just cos I've no hope in politics doesn't mean I've let 'hope' in general die. Politicians have always been the most corrupt and greedy kinda people and it seems like, as mentioned here, that the best of people with the best of intentions, change when given all that power... so I certainly wouldn't want any of it.

Somebody asked me what have I done about it? I think this thread is asking what CAN be done about it?????????????????? Unless I get the entire population of my country wiling to actually stage some kinda coup, there really is not very much I can do. Yes, I can vote, I can vote for the same fuckers under a different name, or I can vote for the good people (I'm sure there's one or two) effectively making my vote ineffective... sounds like the best option to me.

Heineken Helen

Jeanie wrote:

It's interesting that you say that Helen, because my family are only here in Australia because the politics where so bad in Ireland back a 100 years ago that my family immigrated because they wanted a better life.

And I guess because of that we have always, as a family, watched the political climate in Ireland with interest. I really thought that things were getting much better there. But then I'm sure that it's as you say, and your pollies are as bad as ours are here. And across the globe so it would seem.
We really can't rely on the media anymore for accurate information about what the world's politicians are up to. Or the corporations either for that matter.

I vote and wonder why I bother too. But I'll keep doing it, even though it only encourages the bastards!!

My Granny rocks!! She's as sharp as a tack! And I reckon there's so many good things about her that I can forgive her making me suffer through Val Doonigan and The Irish Rovers for most of my life!!

Oh things ARE good here, they're really good for the middle class, pretty good for the working class, EXCELLENT for the already wealthy and probably pretty crap for the poor. I know it could be a whole lot worse but I really don't understand why, in this unstable global economy of today, we make ourselves so reliant on American companies... if America pulled all their companies out of Ireland tomorrow, we'd be back to where we were in the 80s. So why, when we have all this money at our disposal right now, aren't we using it to make our country more self reliant? It makes absolutely NO sense to me. It's very hard to go into a supermarket and fill a BASKET with solely Irish goods... even Guinness and Jameson are owned by Diageo (which sounds creepily like diablo) for fuck sake. Next thing you'll have Americans able to buy shares in the Cliffs of Moher... or they probably already can.

It's like the whole Sellafield crap... every couple of years our government WILL bring the British government to some European court demanding that they shut it down. The European court will say no, our government tell us 'well we tried' and that's the end of it til people start acting up again :rolleyes: . American troops will stopover at Shannon, people will complain and they'll say 'but the American's are our friends, we must let them use our airport', but we're a fucking 'NEUTRAL' country we don't have to let them militarily do anything. Argh, I dunno... but I've just realised that I'm much more political in the morning than any other time of the day Interesting.

Heineken Helen

Binaural wrote:

The reason we don't have a government is because of those biggoted fuckers in the DUP. So help me if I ever met Ian Paisley I'd hurt him :mad:

What do you think of all the stuff happening now? Seriously, if I lived in the north I'd be fairly fucking pissed off... Each sides have their own agendas and they'll probably sit down for a week and manage to be civil for maybe an hour and then the guns will come out again. I dunno why they don't just have a big shake up of the major politicians in the north. Bertie and Tony must often feel like they're trying to separate two kids fighting over who got the biggest piece of pie :rolleyes:

evenkat

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh just cos I've no hope in politics doesn't mean I've let 'hope' in general die. Politicians have always been the most corrupt and greedy kinda people and it seems like, as mentioned here, that the best of people with the best of intentions, change when given all that power... so I certainly wouldn't want any of it.

Somebody asked me what have I done about it? I think this thread is asking what CAN be done about it?????????????????? Unless I get the entire population of my country wiling to actually stage some kinda coup, there really is not very much I can do. Yes, I can vote, I can vote for the same fuckers under a different name, or I can vote for the good people (I'm sure there's one or two) effectively making my vote ineffective... sounds like the best option to me.

You have to at least try. Politicians are people so they are going to make mistakes and a lot of them. Vote for the ones you think represents your views the most and hopefully they're honest. If not then replace them at the next election. If you don't vote you're really just making it to easy for them to get away with screwing things up because they'll think you really don't care about important issues.

Binaural

Heineken Helen wrote:

What do you think of all the stuff happening now? Seriously, if I lived in the north I'd be fairly fucking pissed off... Each sides have their own agendas and they'll probably sit down for a week and manage to be civil for maybe an hour and then the guns will come out again. I dunno why they don't just have a big shake up of the major politicians in the north. Bertie and Tony must often feel like they're trying to separate two kids fighting over who got the biggest piece of pie :rolleyes:

Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair have raped this situation for their own political ends for a long time. The fact of the matter is this: NO country has the right to rule over another, the British occupation of 'Northern Ireland' was and is illegal. I know that sounds militant but I don't care, it's the truth. Sinn Fein have supported an IRA that blew up civialians so I have no allegience to them. The DUP are a group of racist, biggoted, sectarian, homophobic leeches. The other parties are nothing but clown shoes. Seriously the whole situation is depressing.
What fucks me off the most though is the descrepancy in treatment of the paramilitaries, for years all the media attention has been devoted to a ceceasment of activity by the IRA. The have disbanded. So where are the same strength of calls for the Loyalist paramilitaries? I don't hear unionists campaigning for THAT too heavily :mad:

Heineken Helen

evenkat wrote:

You have to at least try. Politicians are people so they are going to make mistakes and a lot of them. Vote for the ones you think represents your views the most and hopefully they're honest. If not then replace them at the next election. If you don't vote you're really just making it to easy for them to get away with screwing things up because they'll think you really don't care about important issues.

Oh I know this... I always did and I always will vote but sometimes I just wonder why I bother? :rolleyes:

Heineken Helen

Binaural wrote:

Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair have raped this situation for their own political ends for a long time. The fact of the matter is this: NO country has the right to rule over another, the British occupation of 'Northern Ireland' was and is illegal. I know that sounds militant but I don't care, it's the truth. Sinn Fein have supported an IRA that blew up civialians so I have no allegience to them. The DUP are a group of racist, biggoted, sectarian, homophobic leeches. The other parties are nothing but clown shoes. Seriously the whole situation is depressing.
What fucks me off the most though is the descrepancy in treatment of the paramilitaries, for years all the media attention has been devoted to a ceceasment of activity by the IRA. The have disbanded. So where are the same strength of calls for the Loyalist paramilitaries? I don't hear unionists campaigning for THAT too heavily :mad:

I agree with you completely... I'd be seriously pissed off if I was from the north watching these fucking clowns 'play' politics :rolleyes: What the fuck have they done all the time they've been in 'power'? Absolutely nothing! And you're paying for that? It's all so childish and stupid... the only ones who ever seemed to make any kinda effort at being mature were the SDLP and now look at who's on the front of all the papers taking the credit? Ian fucking PAISLEY :eek:

And even the media in the south haven't really commented in the onesidedness of the whole disarmament process. I don't agree with ANY of the IRA stuff BUT I recall there were two sides at it.

Binaural

Heineken Helen wrote:

I agree with you completely... I'd be seriously pissed off if I was from the north watching these fucking clowns 'play' politics :rolleyes: What the fuck have they done all the time they've been in 'power'? Absolutely nothing! And you're paying for that? It's all so childish and stupid... the only ones who ever seemed to make any kinda effort at being mature were the SDLP and now look at who's on the front of all the papers taking the credit? Ian fucking PAISLEY :eek:

And even the media in the south haven't really commented in the onesidedness of the whole disarmament process. I don't agree with ANY of the IRA stuff BUT I recall there were two sides at it.

Agreed, but what fucks me off about the IRA is that THEIR aims were worthwhile, they wanted independance, something that I believe in completely. I have no problems with their war against the police and armed forces, whose opression of nationalists was nothing short of disgusting, however the IRA solied this by making bars etc legitimate targets. They fucked up, and I hate that the IRA of the troubles is considered the same movement as that which fough for independance last century.
Damn, I need a smoke and a coffee :rolleyes::D

Heineken Helen

Binaural wrote:

Agreed, but what fucks me off about the IRA is that THEIR aims were worthwhile, they wanted independance, something that I believe in completely. I have no problems with their war against the police and armed forces, whose opression of nationalists was nothing short of disgusting, however the IRA solied this by making bars etc legitimate targets. They fucked up, and I hate that the IRA of the troubles is considered the same movement as that which fough for independance last century.
Damn, I need a smoke and a coffee :rolleyes::D

Well I definitely agree there was a NEED for the IRA in the 70s and probably the 80s... hmm... I just agree with everything you've said there. Do you really think they're considered the same movement though? Surely most people can differentiate, we owe a LOT to the early IRA/IRB/etc. Nobody can compare those who fought in 1916 to the useless fuckheads who did Omagh???

Also I'm not completely against the idea of punishment beatings against 'troubled youths' let's call them :rolleyes: . I fucking hate teenagers these days... and they seem to KNOW they can get away with whatever they like. Guards can't do anything, regular adults can't touch them or they'll be sued... punishment beatings, or at least the threat OF... should sort them out . Probably not a popular opinion but that's what I think anyway.

Binaural

Heineken Helen wrote:

Well I definitely agree there was a NEED for the IRA in the 70s and probably the 80s... hmm... I just agree with everything you've said there. Do you really think they're considered the same movement though? Surely most people can differentiate, we owe a LOT to the early IRA/IRB/etc. Nobody can compare those who fought in 1916 to the useless fuckheads who did Omagh???

Also I'm not completely against the idea of punishment beatings against 'troubled youths' let's call them :rolleyes: . I fucking hate teenagers these days... and they seem to KNOW they can get away with whatever they like. Guards can't do anything, regular adults can't touch them or they'll be sued... punishment beatings, or at least the threat OF... should sort them out . Probably not a popular opinion but that's what I think anyway.

I dunno, I respect what you're saying but I don't see how shooting a 17 year old through the back of BOTH kneecaps for stealing electrical equitment can be justified (true story), though I think that the joy riding and rapist individuals deserve little sympathy.
Like I said, it's depressing lol.

Heineken Helen

Binaural wrote:

I dunno, I respect what you're saying but I don't see how shooting a 17 year old through the back of BOTH kneecaps for stealing electrical equitment can be justified (true story), though I think that the joy riding and rapist individuals deserve little sympathy.
Like I said, it's depressing lol.

Well no, I don't think it should go that far... I did say 'even the threat OF'. It's just little fuckers can do and KNOW they can do whatever the fuck they want. And I'm not just talking about mischievous kids, I'm talking about the ones that you KNOW are gonna grow up to be dangerous they need sorting out early on I believe... joy riders and rapists ESPECIALLY! Mainly any who feel they have a right to hurt others, I'm not a big fan of thieves either though but I can see how one is much worse than the other

Flannel Shirt

Instead of electing an official to make decisions for us, put ROBOTS in Senate and House. Seriously.

When a vote comes up, your Senator/Rep. Robot has an 800 number you dial into, and you vote "yeah" or "neah", and they vote what their majoriy tells them. One vote per person obviously. Someone smarter than I would come up with the security to prevent hacking and double voting.

If I was a Rep/Senator, I would set up an 800 number TODAY for just such reasons. Fuck polls. Seriously, does anyone trust a poll? You are going to put stock in the results of a poll when the info comes from a group of nuts who actually took the time to answer the questions? I hang up.

"hello Mr. Flannel, I am calling with xyz poll corporation and would like to ask you about the coming elections..."..CLICK - back to watching TV

Heineken Helen

Flannel Shirt wrote:

Instead of electing an official to make decisions for us, put ROBOTS in Senate and House. Seriously.

When a vote comes up, your Senator/Rep. Robot has an 800 number you dial into, and you vote "yeah" or "neah", and they vote what their majoriy tells them. One vote per person obviously. Someone smarter than I would come up with the security to prevent hacking and double voting.

If I was a Rep/Senator, I would set up an 800 number TODAY for just such reasons. Fuck polls. Seriously, does anyone trust a poll? You are going to put stock in the results of a poll when the info comes from a group of nuts who actually took the time to answer the questions? I hang up.

"hello Mr. Flannel, I am calling with xyz poll corporation and would like to ask you about the coming elections..."..CLICK - back to watching TV

not a bad idea though... they are ELECTED by us to work on our behalf, which they're obviously incapable of so yeh, robots would do a better job

Jeanie

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh things ARE good here, they're really good for the middle class, pretty good for the working class, EXCELLENT for the already wealthy and probably pretty crap for the poor. I know it could be a whole lot worse but I really don't understand why, in this unstable global economy of today, we make ourselves so reliant on American companies... if America pulled all their companies out of Ireland tomorrow, we'd be back to where we were in the 80s. So why, when we have all this money at our disposal right now, aren't we using it to make our country more self reliant? It makes absolutely NO sense to me. It's very hard to go into a supermarket and fill a BASKET with solely Irish goods... even Guinness and Jameson are owned by Diageo (which sounds creepily like diablo) for fuck sake. Next thing you'll have Americans able to buy shares in the Cliffs of Moher... or they probably already can.

It's like the whole Sellafield crap... every couple of years our government WILL bring the British government to some European court demanding that they shut it down. The European court will say no, our government tell us 'well we tried' and that's the end of it til people start acting up again :rolleyes: . American troops will stopover at Shannon, people will complain and they'll say 'but the American's are our friends, we must let them use our airport', but we're a fucking 'NEUTRAL' country we don't have to let them militarily do anything. Argh, I dunno... but I've just realised that I'm much more political in the morning than any other time of the day Interesting.

Oh that's the WEF and globalization at work Helen. It's part of the corporatization of the world. We own fuck all in Australia anymore either. I mean the yanks own VEGEMITE for fucks sake!! And so many overseas interests own our infrastructure too. So it's not just about losing out with manufacturing. It's happening everywhere in the world as far as I can see.
It's to make the rich richer and shake a few more of us out of the middle and working classes back down the ladder. Can't have too many of us in the middle, takes money and power away from the top. Our prime minister has been bending over for Dubblya for so long now, that even Eddie mentioned on the tour! I mean how's that? Our PM is so obviously taking it up the ass from the American president that a singer in an American rock band has noticed and comments while touring. :eek:
I can see why you are over your pollies though!! My GOD those men on the tele last night were as ugly as sin!!! :eek: I thought looking at Little Johnny was bad!!