true, there is a HUGE population of americans that don't have 401ks ... don't have money in stocks ... they could not care less if the market goes down ...
I just hope the ability to borrow doesn't become too difficult ... because it's going to hurt a lot of small businesses.
Both very true statements. We only hear about industry giants but small business are vital to the health of our nation. I found this information about small businesses on the web site http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/oecon/chap4.htm
* Fully 99 percent of all independent enterprises in the country employ fewer than 500 people.
* These small enterprises account for 52 percent of all U.S. workers, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA).
* Some 19.6 million Americans work for companies employing fewer than 20 workers, 18.4 million work for firms employing between 20 and 99 workers, and 14.6 million work for firms with 100 to 499 workers.
Bailout plan or not - anyone who escapes the effects of this economy is going to be a very fortunate individual.
I wish a guy like Eddie, would like me.
0
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
My main problem with all of this is that in 2 years 2010 we'll right back where we are now. Except they'll need over a trillion dollars to come even close to bailing out the system. The entire system of banking needs to be change, someone needs to have some guts like FDR to change this backward or this doomed to fail system.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Does anyone know what Pelosi's speech was all about?
I guess she went on a rant about how this was all the republican's fault to begin with, and that they should vote for this as she didn't want the repulicans to create the mess, then the democrats have to take all the heat passing this bill ...
everyone is waiting for her speech to come out though
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I mean, let's be honest ... Paulsen deserves an ENORMOUS part of the blame if anyone is to blame for this not passing.
You can't walk up to congressional hearings with a 3 page proposal to spend $700B and have a clause in there that state "oh, no questioning me on how I manage this plan either" ....
it was doomed from that moment ... there was no way to tell the public that this was needed and it was actually GOOD for them .. it was the mother of all uphill battles ....
again, I'll be honest ... I'm still not convinced, either way, if this was good or bad.
Henry Merritt "Hank" Paulson Jr. - there's a whole 'nother discussion!!!!! I have made an earnest effort to learn about this dilemma we are facing and I too am not convinced if the failure to pass this bill was good or bad.
I'm also convinced that there are literally a handful of people in this country, maybe four or five at the most, that truly understand the principles of banking, borrowing, lending and the legalities that determine the fate of us all. And NONE of them are in Congress!!!
This whole mess is a damn if you do and damn if you don't....
If you pass the bailout, your giving a green light for stupidity for banks to give out loans to anyone. Plus those execs get paid... Not to mention my taxes...
If you reject the bailout, good luck getting a decent loan for a home or business. The banks won't lend you any money even if your credit is good. This could cause a severe recession for EVERYONE.
My main problem with all of this is that in 2 years 2010 we'll right back where we are now. Except they'll need over a trillion dollars to come even close to bailing out the system. The entire system of banking needs to be change, someone needs to have some guts like FDR to change this backward or this doomed to fail system.
peace
some say 6 months or less and your $ bill is worth less than the paper it's printed on. Get ready for a $400 loaf of bread.
I'm trying to understand what she possibly could have said that was so bad...I mean, who would change their vote based solely on the fact that the Speaker bitched about Bush? I mean, this isn't a schoolyard fight where you move somewhere else if somebody teases you. I have no idea what the hell is wrong with our Congress, and I am shocked by how often a legislative body can behave like a small child.
I have a feeling that the bailout will eventually pass. The rich will get richer and the rest of us will pay for them to do so.
In terms of compensation, we will get to keep our homes and financing will be available for those who need a new car etc.
The same problems will continue to exist under a mask of complacency and lies, and the problem will be passed on to the next generation.
It doesn't even sound like the "experts" are convinced this problem has a fix. I guess you shore it up with a few extra nails and boards, cross your fingers and forward we go.
Bleh - I'm depressed!!!
/digs through dirty laundry in search of my Vedder for President t-shirt
The Democrats are the majority in the Congress, why couldn't they get their shit together and vote the way their leader (the moron Nancy Pelosi) was directing?
When Pelosi spoke , she decided not to encourage members of both parties to vote for the bill, but to blast Republicans and blame Bush and how the Democrats were saving the day. Now shes back on TV pleading that we need a bi-partisan effort.
This just continues to show that our elected officials are not interested in whats good for the country, only what good for them financially and politically.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
I have a problem with the republican talking points after the vote, they said it failed due to speaker pelosi's speech before the vote. So they had the votes, and an agreement, the go to vote, speaker hurts their personal feelings, and they lose votes? so their personal feelings are more important than the American economy?
If they had problems, and if bi-partisanship was truly important, they would state the issues that need to be worked on, and not blame the vote failure on their hurt feelings.
on the otherside, if her speech as so partisan, she needs to zip it also.
how messed up is our political system? how much more messed up does it need to become before the majority of Americans do something?
oh, and Nadar isn't the answer, though a little Nadar, a lot of Ron Paul, mixed in some Obama and Swartzeneggar would be nice, fictional, but nice.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
from my perspective.....i think the bailout failure is a direct correlation and an accurate representation of our current economy. as someone said earlier, we have been functioning as a psuedo economy.
time to pay the piper......to some degree.
it is all out of balance.
and on a more positive note.....we have a new topic to discuss.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
Pelosi was just asked if her speech caused the bill to fail ...
Frank stepped in ... he said (paraphrasing) "wait ... so, the republicans had the 12 votes to pass this bill, but, then, a little speech hurt their feelings? So, their feelings mean more than the welfare of the country? 'Someone hurt my feelings, so, I want to punish the country' .... I'll make an offer ... give me the 12 names and I'll go talk uncharacteristicly nicely to them ... and tell them what wonderful people they are, and could they NOW think about the people of this country?"
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
from my perspective.....i think the bailout failure is a direct correlation and an accurate representation of our current economy. as someone said earlier, we have been functioning as a psuedo economy.
time to pay the piper......to some degree.
it is all out of balance.
and on a more positive note.....we have a new topic to discuss.
the piper was already paid, we had a chance to stabalize the markets, it wasnt giving 700 billion to wall st. , it was about trying to allow people access to borrow money, just wait and see what happens.
Everyone has to be smacked in the head on this one (of course, assuming that this bailout needs to pass, which I'm still ambivalent about)
-Pelosi needs to learn when is a right and wrong time not to deliver a partisan speech.
-Republicans need to grow the hell up and not let a partisan speech hurt their feelings.
Nancy Pelosi is in charge of a democrat run house...she doesn’t need a single republican vote to get a bill approved but since she and all other dems in congress are cowards she asks for help......she gets the OK from some republicans then goes out and blasts the republicans and the president.......its like asking for $5 then kicking the person in balls before they give it to you….I think Nancy P needs to grow the hell up.
If you think that someone who was going to vote for a bill decided not to because the Speaker of the House hurt his or her feelings is in the right, I don't know what I can say. I didn't say Pelosi was blameless, but come on.
Chuck Todd just stated on MSNBC ... of all the HOR memebers that are in close races for their job (remember they are ALL up for reelection), only 4 or 5 voted for this bill, the rest ALL voted against, both Dems and Reps ...
Again, the bill was doomed from the initial Paulsen plan, regardless of what Pelosi said. There was NO WAY to reverse public perception.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
The Democrats are the majority in the Congress, why couldn't they get their shit together and vote the way their leader (the moron Nancy Pelosi) was directing?
When Pelosi spoke , she decided not to encourage members of both parties to vote for the bill, but to blast Republicans and blame Bush and how the Democrats were saving the day. Now shes back on TV pleading that we need a bi-partisan effort.
This just continues to show that our elected officials are not interested in whats good for the country, only what good for them financially and politically.
I do love the "blame Republicans" game as much as the next "liberal", but Pelosi is certifiable. She needs to go.
Nancy Pelosi is in charge of a democrat run house...she doesn’t need a single republican vote to get a bill approved but since she and all other dems in congress are cowards she asks for help......she gets the OK from some republicans then goes out and blasts the republicans and the president.......its like asking for $5 then kicking the person in balls before they give it to you….I think Nancy P needs to grow the hell up.
The Democrats are the majority in the Congress, why couldn't they get their shit together and vote the way their leader (the moron Nancy Pelosi) was directing?
Look again. It was the majority of Republicans who failed to support the bill, not Democrats, who voted 60% in favor.
If anything, this is an indictment of John McCain's lack of leadership ability, not to mention another gold star for the legacy of the worst President at least since Hoover, if not of all time.
And now it looks like House Republicans picked up their toys and went home because of Pelosi's speech. Jesus Christ.
Psst...Bush's economic policies are disastrous. He did inherit a surplus and drive us into deficit. That's what's known as a fact.
No, not at all, I do not listen to Rush....it is what it is, the democrats are afraid to vote on this by themselves because they will get blasted if they do....shoud put themselves second when getting a job done. Just because I do not have the same thought process as you shouldn't make you prejudge that I am a Rush follower.
Sorry, please don't take offense. I meant to say Hannity.
No, not at all, I do not listen to Rush....it is what it is, the democrats are afraid to vote on this by themselves because they will get blasted if they do....shoud put themselves second when getting a job done. Just because I do not have the same thought process as you shouldn't make you prejudge that I am a Rush follower.
please, you cannot blame the dems on this ... it was BOTH parties' fault ... and Paulsen, and Bush, and previous congresses .... you don't see that?
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Comments
Both very true statements. We only hear about industry giants but small business are vital to the health of our nation. I found this information about small businesses on the web site http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/oecon/chap4.htm
* Fully 99 percent of all independent enterprises in the country employ fewer than 500 people.
* These small enterprises account for 52 percent of all U.S. workers, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA).
* Some 19.6 million Americans work for companies employing fewer than 20 workers, 18.4 million work for firms employing between 20 and 99 workers, and 14.6 million work for firms with 100 to 499 workers.
Bailout plan or not - anyone who escapes the effects of this economy is going to be a very fortunate individual.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I guess she went on a rant about how this was all the republican's fault to begin with, and that they should vote for this as she didn't want the repulicans to create the mess, then the democrats have to take all the heat passing this bill ...
everyone is waiting for her speech to come out though
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Henry Merritt "Hank" Paulson Jr. - there's a whole 'nother discussion!!!!! I have made an earnest effort to learn about this dilemma we are facing and I too am not convinced if the failure to pass this bill was good or bad.
I'm also convinced that there are literally a handful of people in this country, maybe four or five at the most, that truly understand the principles of banking, borrowing, lending and the legalities that determine the fate of us all. And NONE of them are in Congress!!!
If you pass the bailout, your giving a green light for stupidity for banks to give out loans to anyone. Plus those execs get paid... Not to mention my taxes...
If you reject the bailout, good luck getting a decent loan for a home or business. The banks won't lend you any money even if your credit is good. This could cause a severe recession for EVERYONE.
I don't know which is worse...
some say 6 months or less and your $ bill is worth less than the paper it's printed on. Get ready for a $400 loaf of bread.
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/184803.html
www.seanbrady.net
In terms of compensation, we will get to keep our homes and financing will be available for those who need a new car etc.
The same problems will continue to exist under a mask of complacency and lies, and the problem will be passed on to the next generation.
It doesn't even sound like the "experts" are convinced this problem has a fix. I guess you shore it up with a few extra nails and boards, cross your fingers and forward we go.
Bleh - I'm depressed!!!
/digs through dirty laundry in search of my Vedder for President t-shirt
that's my representative!
looks like it cuts out, not sure if that is all of it ... but, ugh ... I just don't understand why she needed to pile on like that.
But honestly, to me, a little more chatter on what to do might be helpful ... this thing still had its warts.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
When Pelosi spoke , she decided not to encourage members of both parties to vote for the bill, but to blast Republicans and blame Bush and how the Democrats were saving the day. Now shes back on TV pleading that we need a bi-partisan effort.
This just continues to show that our elected officials are not interested in whats good for the country, only what good for them financially and politically.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
If they had problems, and if bi-partisanship was truly important, they would state the issues that need to be worked on, and not blame the vote failure on their hurt feelings.
on the otherside, if her speech as so partisan, she needs to zip it also.
how messed up is our political system? how much more messed up does it need to become before the majority of Americans do something?
oh, and Nadar isn't the answer, though a little Nadar, a lot of Ron Paul, mixed in some Obama and Swartzeneggar would be nice, fictional, but nice.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
time to pay the piper......to some degree.
it is all out of balance.
and on a more positive note.....we have a new topic to discuss.
Pelosi was just asked if her speech caused the bill to fail ...
Frank stepped in ... he said (paraphrasing) "wait ... so, the republicans had the 12 votes to pass this bill, but, then, a little speech hurt their feelings? So, their feelings mean more than the welfare of the country? 'Someone hurt my feelings, so, I want to punish the country' .... I'll make an offer ... give me the 12 names and I'll go talk uncharacteristicly nicely to them ... and tell them what wonderful people they are, and could they NOW think about the people of this country?"
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
-Pelosi needs to learn when is a right and wrong time not to deliver a partisan speech.
-Republicans need to grow the hell up and not let a partisan speech hurt their feelings.
yes, but, you'll have to tell them in Chinese, as that's what we'll all be speaking by then ...
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
If you think that someone who was going to vote for a bill decided not to because the Speaker of the House hurt his or her feelings is in the right, I don't know what I can say. I didn't say Pelosi was blameless, but come on.
Again, the bill was doomed from the initial Paulsen plan, regardless of what Pelosi said. There was NO WAY to reverse public perception.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I do love the "blame Republicans" game as much as the next "liberal", but Pelosi is certifiable. She needs to go.
Cowards? LOL...
Did Rush tell you to say that?
Look again. It was the majority of Republicans who failed to support the bill, not Democrats, who voted 60% in favor.
If anything, this is an indictment of John McCain's lack of leadership ability, not to mention another gold star for the legacy of the worst President at least since Hoover, if not of all time.
And now it looks like House Republicans picked up their toys and went home because of Pelosi's speech. Jesus Christ.
Psst...Bush's economic policies are disastrous. He did inherit a surplus and drive us into deficit. That's what's known as a fact.
Sorry, please don't take offense. I meant to say Hannity.
please, you cannot blame the dems on this ... it was BOTH parties' fault ... and Paulsen, and Bush, and previous congresses .... you don't see that?
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Thanks for the link.
Ron Paul was against... That's all I need to know