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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm sorry, there are no heroes or villains in this story.  I don't personally like short selling but the risk is to the investor.  There's no limit to the loss they can take if they short and the stock rises, which is what is happening here.  But it also happens to individual investors as well, not just institutional ones.  And when an institutional investor shorts, it's usually because there is some open warfare happening between the company and the institution.  This WBS issue happening now is because a bunch of pitchfork investors are being manipulated into group think by the Reddit thread.  This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.  
    This exposes just how messed up the market is though.  Perhaps some people will get hosed oh well. People are always getting hosed. Meanwhile I remember oh 2008 when the financial class really fucked things up and somehow are still playing by the same rules. I’d have to say that maybe these aren’t “good guys” for manipulating the manipulators, but they are good guys for exposing just what a bullshit system we have.  It is very clear as the “invisible hand” is coming down just what side of the “free market” it is really on.
    The invisible hand of the market is just a saying, it means nothing.  That's just an Adam Smith thing.  The development of the SEC and all the other trade rules that have been instituted over the years makes the statement meaningless.  We don't have a true free market by any means, nor should we. 
    I'm not sure what you mean by investors getting hosed.  Who is getting hosed and how is it out of their control?  If you want to be a day trader and play 24-72 hour cycles, you're going to win adn you're going to lose.  If you invest for the long term as opposed to your primary source of income, you're going to win.  And you increase your chances of winning by staying within blue chippers or index funds.  You want to play penny stocks, short, new technology and try to make a quick buck, then that's on you.  
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,076
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm sorry, there are no heroes or villains in this story.  I don't personally like short selling but the risk is to the investor.  There's no limit to the loss they can take if they short and the stock rises, which is what is happening here.  But it also happens to individual investors as well, not just institutional ones.  And when an institutional investor shorts, it's usually because there is some open warfare happening between the company and the institution.  This WBS issue happening now is because a bunch of pitchfork investors are being manipulated into group think by the Reddit thread.  This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.  
    This exposes just how messed up the market is though.  Perhaps some people will get hosed oh well. People are always getting hosed. Meanwhile I remember oh 2008 when the financial class really fucked things up and somehow are still playing by the same rules. I’d have to say that maybe these aren’t “good guys” for manipulating the manipulators, but they are good guys for exposing just what a bullshit system we have.  It is very clear as the “invisible hand” is coming down just what side of the “free market” it is really on.
    The invisible hand of the market is just a saying, it means nothing.  That's just an Adam Smith thing.  The development of the SEC and all the other trade rules that have been instituted over the years makes the statement meaningless.  We don't have a true free market by any means, nor should we. 
    I'm not sure what you mean by investors getting hosed.  Who is getting hosed and how is it out of their control?  If you want to be a day trader and play 24-72 hour cycles, you're going to win adn you're going to lose.  If you invest for the long term as opposed to your primary source of income, you're going to win.  And you increase your chances of winning by staying within blue chippers or index funds.  You want to play penny stocks, short, new technology and try to make a quick buck, then that's on you.  
    I thought you were saying that was the problem with this whole thing “ This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.”  I do not see how any of this is a bad thing.  If some hedgefunds or day traders with lots of money can do the exact same thing, why not let a group of dopes on Reddit do the same thing.  Also I know there is no invisible hand and it like most sayings from rich assholes 200+ years ago is complete bullshit.  Here is a meme and this is what Wall Street sounds like right now to the common underfunded undereducated person with zero knowledge of the stonks market. 
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm sorry, there are no heroes or villains in this story.  I don't personally like short selling but the risk is to the investor.  There's no limit to the loss they can take if they short and the stock rises, which is what is happening here.  But it also happens to individual investors as well, not just institutional ones.  And when an institutional investor shorts, it's usually because there is some open warfare happening between the company and the institution.  This WBS issue happening now is because a bunch of pitchfork investors are being manipulated into group think by the Reddit thread.  This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.  
    This exposes just how messed up the market is though.  Perhaps some people will get hosed oh well. People are always getting hosed. Meanwhile I remember oh 2008 when the financial class really fucked things up and somehow are still playing by the same rules. I’d have to say that maybe these aren’t “good guys” for manipulating the manipulators, but they are good guys for exposing just what a bullshit system we have.  It is very clear as the “invisible hand” is coming down just what side of the “free market” it is really on.
    The invisible hand of the market is just a saying, it means nothing.  That's just an Adam Smith thing.  The development of the SEC and all the other trade rules that have been instituted over the years makes the statement meaningless.  We don't have a true free market by any means, nor should we. 
    I'm not sure what you mean by investors getting hosed.  Who is getting hosed and how is it out of their control?  If you want to be a day trader and play 24-72 hour cycles, you're going to win adn you're going to lose.  If you invest for the long term as opposed to your primary source of income, you're going to win.  And you increase your chances of winning by staying within blue chippers or index funds.  You want to play penny stocks, short, new technology and try to make a quick buck, then that's on you.  
    I thought you were saying that was the problem with this whole thing “ This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.”  I do not see how any of this is a bad thing.  If some hedgefunds or day traders with lots of money can do the exact same thing, why not let a group of dopes on Reddit do the same thing.  Also I know there is no invisible hand and it like most sayings from rich assholes 200+ years ago is complete bullshit.  Here is a meme and this is what Wall Street sounds like right now to the common underfunded undereducated person with zero knowledge of the stonks market. 
    I'm saying it's going to end badly for some of these individual investors that poured money into Gamestop and the like, based on these threads.  It's a bubble because obviously the fundamental of those businesses (like Blackberry and evidently the Blockbuster liquidating trust) certainly do not support a 500% increase in stock price over the last 48 hours.  As soon as teh exit happens (and it would have happened if Robinhood and others did not halt trading), the people that jumped on this balloon are going to get stuck with their loss.  
    Again, I don't support shorting, but shorting by Institutions is a reasoned strategy based on the fundamentals of the particular business.  This bubble is not based on reason.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    The fact that memes have now come to stock trading makes me more depressed than usual.  Pretty soon historical information is going to be communicated by the least sophisticated method possible.  
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,078
    mrussel1 said:
    The fact that memes have now come to stock trading makes me more depressed than usual.  Pretty soon historical information is going to be communicated by the least sophisticated method possible.  
    memes have been relaying fake history for years. how often to people make memes of abe lincoln with quotes he never said on them?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,078
    i mean jesus never said "discriminate against gay people" and never said anything about abortion, but here we have memes with jesus on them with quotes about that stuff. and we have an entire political party whose domestic agenda is based those two things. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i mean jesus never said "discriminate against gay people" and never said anything about abortion, but here we have memes with jesus on them with quotes about that stuff. and we have an entire political party whose domestic agenda is based those two things. 
    AYeah I've always considered those political memes.  Either way, depressing.  Teh worst one is the one where they have John Lennon allegedly supporting someone like Donald Trump as president.  Idiocy. 
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,078
    mrussel1 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i mean jesus never said "discriminate against gay people" and never said anything about abortion, but here we have memes with jesus on them with quotes about that stuff. and we have an entire political party whose domestic agenda is based those two things. 
    AYeah I've always considered those political memes.  Either way, depressing.  Teh worst one is the one where they have John Lennon allegedly supporting someone like Donald Trump as president.  Idiocy. 
    yeah that one is a tragedy. 

    the memes i make specifically are for snark. i'd never make fake history or fake information ones. there are too many of those already out there. 
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • jimjam1982
    jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,471
    mrussel1 said:
    jimjam1982 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i saw earlier today that gamestop was trading at $420.69 per share. my teenage brain had a chuckle.

    now robinhood has stopped people from trading gamestop, amc, and nokia. is that even legal? i do not know a lot about how the markey works, but this seems shady. seems like they are covering for the hedge funds that are losing money. 
    It's not. The market is being manipulated by the hedge funds with small trades between multiple accounts to drive down stocks while its frozen. Time to see if the President lives up to his campaign and fights for the people or stands by the suits.  Whoever the AG is should have intervened and stopped these freezes in the name of free trade.
    What? What are you proposing Biden does and how? Are you saying that the short selling should be banned by EO?
    The NYSE/NASDAQ and traders are regulated by FINRA, which reports to FINCEN, which reports to the DOJ, which reports to the AG who is appointed by the President.  It's time to step up. Our newly elected congress and AG need to take action today. 
  • jimjam1982
    jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,471
    static111 said:
    Are hedge funds really currently allowed to trade all of the “banned” stocks while investors using Robin Hood and other services are being froze out?  This is complete insanity
    Yes. That's why it is dipping. It's not a big sell off like a true pump and dump.
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,076
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm sorry, there are no heroes or villains in this story.  I don't personally like short selling but the risk is to the investor.  There's no limit to the loss they can take if they short and the stock rises, which is what is happening here.  But it also happens to individual investors as well, not just institutional ones.  And when an institutional investor shorts, it's usually because there is some open warfare happening between the company and the institution.  This WBS issue happening now is because a bunch of pitchfork investors are being manipulated into group think by the Reddit thread.  This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.  
    This exposes just how messed up the market is though.  Perhaps some people will get hosed oh well. People are always getting hosed. Meanwhile I remember oh 2008 when the financial class really fucked things up and somehow are still playing by the same rules. I’d have to say that maybe these aren’t “good guys” for manipulating the manipulators, but they are good guys for exposing just what a bullshit system we have.  It is very clear as the “invisible hand” is coming down just what side of the “free market” it is really on.
    The invisible hand of the market is just a saying, it means nothing.  That's just an Adam Smith thing.  The development of the SEC and all the other trade rules that have been instituted over the years makes the statement meaningless.  We don't have a true free market by any means, nor should we. 
    I'm not sure what you mean by investors getting hosed.  Who is getting hosed and how is it out of their control?  If you want to be a day trader and play 24-72 hour cycles, you're going to win adn you're going to lose.  If you invest for the long term as opposed to your primary source of income, you're going to win.  And you increase your chances of winning by staying within blue chippers or index funds.  You want to play penny stocks, short, new technology and try to make a quick buck, then that's on you.  
    I thought you were saying that was the problem with this whole thing “ This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.”  I do not see how any of this is a bad thing.  If some hedgefunds or day traders with lots of money can do the exact same thing, why not let a group of dopes on Reddit do the same thing.  Also I know there is no invisible hand and it like most sayings from rich assholes 200+ years ago is complete bullshit.  Here is a meme and this is what Wall Street sounds like right now to the common underfunded undereducated person with zero knowledge of the stonks market. 
    I'm saying it's going to end badly for some of these individual investors that poured money into Gamestop and the like, based on these threads.  It's a bubble because obviously the fundamental of those businesses (like Blackberry and evidently the Blockbuster liquidating trust) certainly do not support a 500% increase in stock price over the last 48 hours.  As soon as teh exit happens (and it would have happened if Robinhood and others did not halt trading), the people that jumped on this balloon are going to get stuck with their loss.  
    Again, I don't support shorting, but shorting by Institutions is a reasoned strategy based on the fundamentals of the particular business.  This bubble is not based on reason.  
    Shorting by institutions based on reason is ok, but shoring by an organized group of individuals to make a quick buck is not ok? Get out of town.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,076
    jimjam1982 said:
    static111 said:
    Are hedge funds really currently allowed to trade all of the “banned” stocks while investors using Robin Hood and other services are being froze out?  This is complete insanity
    Yes. That's why it is dipping. It's not a big sell off like a true pump and dump.
    Rules for the masses but not for the classes...seems right based on 245 years of precedence.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited January 2021
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm sorry, there are no heroes or villains in this story.  I don't personally like short selling but the risk is to the investor.  There's no limit to the loss they can take if they short and the stock rises, which is what is happening here.  But it also happens to individual investors as well, not just institutional ones.  And when an institutional investor shorts, it's usually because there is some open warfare happening between the company and the institution.  This WBS issue happening now is because a bunch of pitchfork investors are being manipulated into group think by the Reddit thread.  This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.  
    This exposes just how messed up the market is though.  Perhaps some people will get hosed oh well. People are always getting hosed. Meanwhile I remember oh 2008 when the financial class really fucked things up and somehow are still playing by the same rules. I’d have to say that maybe these aren’t “good guys” for manipulating the manipulators, but they are good guys for exposing just what a bullshit system we have.  It is very clear as the “invisible hand” is coming down just what side of the “free market” it is really on.
    The invisible hand of the market is just a saying, it means nothing.  That's just an Adam Smith thing.  The development of the SEC and all the other trade rules that have been instituted over the years makes the statement meaningless.  We don't have a true free market by any means, nor should we. 
    I'm not sure what you mean by investors getting hosed.  Who is getting hosed and how is it out of their control?  If you want to be a day trader and play 24-72 hour cycles, you're going to win adn you're going to lose.  If you invest for the long term as opposed to your primary source of income, you're going to win.  And you increase your chances of winning by staying within blue chippers or index funds.  You want to play penny stocks, short, new technology and try to make a quick buck, then that's on you.  
    I thought you were saying that was the problem with this whole thing “ This is going to end badly for the individuals, more than the institutions.”  I do not see how any of this is a bad thing.  If some hedgefunds or day traders with lots of money can do the exact same thing, why not let a group of dopes on Reddit do the same thing.  Also I know there is no invisible hand and it like most sayings from rich assholes 200+ years ago is complete bullshit.  Here is a meme and this is what Wall Street sounds like right now to the common underfunded undereducated person with zero knowledge of the stonks market. 
    I'm saying it's going to end badly for some of these individual investors that poured money into Gamestop and the like, based on these threads.  It's a bubble because obviously the fundamental of those businesses (like Blackberry and evidently the Blockbuster liquidating trust) certainly do not support a 500% increase in stock price over the last 48 hours.  As soon as teh exit happens (and it would have happened if Robinhood and others did not halt trading), the people that jumped on this balloon are going to get stuck with their loss.  
    Again, I don't support shorting, but shorting by Institutions is a reasoned strategy based on the fundamentals of the particular business.  This bubble is not based on reason.  
    Shorting by institutions based on reason is ok, but shoring by an organized group of individuals to make a quick buck is not ok? Get out of town.
    I've said multiple times that I don't agree with shorting.  I'm saying that it's the people that are going to get burned by this.  There's a clear analogy here to the idiots that stormed the capital because they thought it was okay, because that's what Trump said to do. It's the same group think mindset that these populist traders are employing. 

    Edit - as an interesting example, I read a WSJ article about the guy who started the WSB thread way back in '12.  It may interest you that Martin Shkreli was previously a moderator on that board.  So it's not run and lead by a bunch of actual Robin Hoods.  It's run by people who are manipulating the masses on teh thread.  Just like the bullshit populism of Trump.
    Post edited by mrussel1 on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    jimjam1982 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    jimjam1982 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i saw earlier today that gamestop was trading at $420.69 per share. my teenage brain had a chuckle.

    now robinhood has stopped people from trading gamestop, amc, and nokia. is that even legal? i do not know a lot about how the markey works, but this seems shady. seems like they are covering for the hedge funds that are losing money. 
    It's not. The market is being manipulated by the hedge funds with small trades between multiple accounts to drive down stocks while its frozen. Time to see if the President lives up to his campaign and fights for the people or stands by the suits.  Whoever the AG is should have intervened and stopped these freezes in the name of free trade.
    What? What are you proposing Biden does and how? Are you saying that the short selling should be banned by EO?
    The NYSE/NASDAQ and traders are regulated by FINRA, which reports to FINCEN, which reports to the DOJ, which reports to the AG who is appointed by the President.  It's time to step up. Our newly elected congress and AG need to take action today. 
    So again, what precisely are you proposing in this 'action'?  I asked if you were saying EO, and it sounds like no, you are saying there is some law that should be written today.  What law are you proposing?
  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,235
    I know nothing about Stocks so forgive me if this makes no sense:


  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited January 2021
    Haha. I'm not sure if she was winded or ready to cry.  

    Cutz - I'm pretty sure this is a joke. 
  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,235
    mrussel1 said:
    Haha. I'm not sure if she was winded or ready to cry.  

    Cutz - I'm pretty sure this is a joke. 
    HAHA....I was wondering if she was about to cry too.

      I did say I have NO clue about Stocks so I guess I just proved it.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    cutz said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Haha. I'm not sure if she was winded or ready to cry.  

    Cutz - I'm pretty sure this is a joke. 
    HAHA....I was wondering if she was about to cry too.

      I did say I have NO clue about Stocks so I guess I just proved it.
    I'm pretty sure you know more than her.  When she started with ..."I own stocks so I have a pretty good understanding of the stock market.." I knew we were in for trouble. That's like.. "I can drive a car, so I'm pretty sure I can rebuild this engine".  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879


    Look at this shit.  EPS of -4.22, 1 year target of $12.  And it's up $72 in after hours trading.  The range for the day is $112-$483.  
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,220
    mrussel1 said:


    Look at this shit.  EPS of -4.22, 1 year target of $12.  And it's up $72 in after hours trading.  The range for the day is $112-$483.  
    All of that means nothing. Day traders make money on emotion. 

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