Proof of Quana "massacre" staging...

sliverstain

this thread is disgusting and racist and has no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, really needs to be closed.

jsand

sliverstain wrote:

this thread is disgusting and racist and has no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, really needs to be closed.

YOU are disgusting and racist. Your arguments and positions have no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, your use of this board needs to be permanently shut down. You're a vile bigot with no grasp of reality and no decency. To call out me is one thing, but to call out Shiraz, who is in a bomb shelter in Israel, is sick. You need serious help, asshole.

sliverstain

jsand wrote:

YOU are disgusting and racist. Your arguments and positions have no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, your use of this board needs to be permanently shut down. You're a vile bigot with no grasp of reality and no decency. To call out me is one thing, but to call out Shiraz, who is in a bomb shelter in Israel, is sick. You need serious help, asshole.

Mods?

Personal, unconstructive, foul mouthed attack. Sure I didnt sign up for that on the Message Pit terms and conditions page.

dayan

sliverstain wrote:

this thread is disgusting and racist and has no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, really needs to be closed.

Mods?

Sliverstain is calling people names. He's saying people are disgusting and racist. This is insulting to people and is unconstructive. Shouldn't he be banned for such terrible, aweful, no-good, very-bad comments?

OutOfBreath

I might post it here, what I was typing while they closed down the other thread:

dayan wrote:

Israel is not hiding it's motivations for action. They simply haven't been very good at getting their message out. They are acting because Hezbollah has never really stopped their war on Israel. They have maintained a low-intensity conflict in the Shebaa Farms region ever since Israel pulled out of ALL of Lebanon in 2000. They also kidnapped three Israeli soldiers from Israel just months after the Israeli withdrawl. They have been arming themselves ever since Israel pulled out and have been turning themselves into a threat that Israel simply can no longer live with. They are an operational arm of Iran, whose president speaks of wiping Israel off the map while his government seeks to build nuclear weapons. Israel is fighting to eliminate a very real threat to itself and to weaken Iran's hold on Lebanon.

Certainly. But why was this the time for Israel to take it back fom low-intensity conflict, and knock it up to massive air campaign displacing the entire population of southern Lebanon, knocking out all roads and bridges in most of Lebanon and massive bombing of populated areas that consists of 99.98% innocents? That they have justification and reasons for themselves, I do not doubt. That any of the justification and reasoning holds if you posit that an arab's life is as much worth as an Israeli's life is another matter.

To put it short, yes, Hizbollah is a legitimate enemy for Israel to strike at and stop. And in no possible way is Israel justified in boming all of Lebanon rather indiscriminately or at least using a pretty wide definition of military targets for that. Targetted strikes at Hizbollah military positions to stop them from shooting stuff into Israel, ok. Bombing a block in Beirut because a Hizbollah guy is supposed to reside there, not at all ok. Israel is way out of bounds and any reasonable justification in doing this. I'm just hoping there's anything left of Lebanon when they stop. Hizbollah seems to be doing dandy in all of this.

And I could also somewhat understand if Lebanon was beginning to threaten Israel, or it was going in a hostile direction. But it wasn't. If anything, Syria was becoming massively unpopular, and more and more Lebanese were demanding that they fuck off. Lebanon was moving in the right direction it would seem.

And as I was saying before, supporting any of the warring parties unconditionally down there is pretty simplistic wrong and narrowminded. Now that I have vented my frustration with Israel, I can also highlight my big FUCK YOU to supposed "freedom-making" guerillas that consistently target civilians inside Israel rather than more legitimate military targets. Fuck 'em. My point is that the Lebanese civilian population is not in any way a warring party, but clinched between extremist fuckheads Hizbollah, and doesn't-care-too-much-about-collateral-damage Israel.

So in conclusion, not supporting Hizbollah, not lending them credibility of any kind, and frankly I hate their guts in their terrorist tactics against civilians. Neither do I support let's-use-nukes-to-get-those-damn-sparrows Israel and their customary response to anything. Lebanon is a disgrace for all of the involved, and I refuse to absolve any party of guilt. Not the party using fancy bombers and "smart bombs" either.

Peace
Dan

dayan

OutOfBreath wrote:

I might post it here, what I was typing while they closed down the other thread:



Certainly. But why was this the time for Israel to take it back fom low-intensity conflict, and knock it up to massive air campaign displacing the entire population of southern Lebanon, knocking out all roads and bridges in most of Lebanon and massive bombing of populated areas that consists of 99.98% innocents? That they have justification and reasons for themselves, I do not doubt. That any of the justification and reasoning holds if you posit that an arab's life is as much worth as an Israeli's life is another matter.

To put it short, yes, Hizbollah is a legitimate enemy for Israel to strike at and stop. And in no possible way is Israel justified in boming all of Lebanon rather indiscriminately or at least using a pretty wide definition of military targets for that. Targetted strikes at Hizbollah military positions to stop them from shooting stuff into Israel, ok. Bombing a block in Beirut because a Hizbollah guy is supposed to reside there, not at all ok. Israel is way out of bounds and any reasonable justification in doing this. I'm just hoping there's anything left of Lebanon when they stop. Hizbollah seems to be doing dandy in all of this.

And I could also somewhat understand if Lebanon was beginning to threaten Israel, or it was going in a hostile direction. But it wasn't. If anything, Syria was becoming massively unpopular, and more and more Lebanese were demanding that they fuck off. Lebanon was moving in the right direction it would seem.

And as I was saying before, supporting any of the warring parties unconditionally down there is pretty simplistic wrong and narrowminded. Now that I have vented my frustration with Israel, I can also highlight my big FUCK YOU to supposed "freedom-making" guerillas that consistently target civilians inside Israel rather than more legitimate military targets. Fuck 'em. My point is that the Lebanese civilian population is not in any way a warring party, but clinched between extremist fuckheads Hizbollah, and doesn't-care-too-much-about-collateral-damage Israel.

So in conclusion, not supporting Hizbollah, not lending them credibility of any kind, and frankly I hate their guts in their terrorist tactics against civilians. Neither do I support let's-use-nukes-to-get-those-damn-sparrows Israel and their customary response to anything. Lebanon is a disgrace for all of the involved, and I refuse to absolve any party of guilt. Not the party using fancy bombers and "smart bombs" either.

Peace
Dan

I disagree slightly, but in general that's cool. I respect that opinion.

Open

dayan wrote:

AGAIN you fucking twat, I'm not saying that people, kids, didn't die. They did, and that's terrible. But how can you not be disgusted by people taking the bodies of dead children out of ambulances so they can be filmed again in a more heart wrenching way. That's an abuse of the dead. It's sick. I honestly think that if you people cannot at least agree that this is disgusting then you have absolutely no morals.

If it's the truth and it will save lives why not? Do you think israel would have said a word about those deaths if no one else would of? DOnt act like you're this humanitarian wonder thats just hurting inside doing what you have to do. You probably have a scoreboard that you add notches too everytime you hear an Isreali advance. AT LEAST, be human enough to admit what you are, instead of trying to play the tragic warrior.

dayan

Open wrote:

If it's the truth and it will save lives why not? Do you think israel would have said a word about those deaths if no one else would of? DOnt act like you're this humanitarian wonder thats just hurting inside doing what you have to do. You probably have a scoreboard that you add notches too everytime you hear an Isreali advance. AT LEAST, be human enough to admit what you are, instead of trying to play the tragic warrior.

How is abusing the dead going to save lives? I have no problem with reporting on deaths and showing pictures of the war, but what happened was the use of dead bodies to stage scenes for the camera. That is disgusting. Don't presume to tell me what I do and do not feel. I at least am willing to say that civilian deaths are tragic regardless of what country they occur in. I haven't seen you utter even so much as equivalent sympathy for those who have been brutally murdered in Israel. No, I have no scoreboard on my wall, and I do feel for those who are killed, but do you know the best way not to be attacked by Israel is to not attack her first. It's enough already. For sixty years Arab states and terrorists have been attacking Israel and then they go crying to the world when Israel beats the shit out of them. Every Arab state that has come to Israel willing to make a real peace has found Israel willing to do so. It happened with Egypt and Jordan, and was on the way to happening with the Palestinians if Arafat hadn't torpedoed the deal. I'm just sick of this shit. If you feel so bad for the Lebanese go mouth off at them that they will have alot less to fear from Israel if they can get their countrymen to stop provoking Israel.

melodious

Here's a lengthy article a friend read concerning very topic of this thread. I hope this helps.


http://www.counterpunch.org/

dayan

melodious wrote:

Here's a lengthy article a friend read concerning very topic of this thread. I hope this helps.


http://www.counterpunch.org/

Sorry, but that is a load of shit. If you look at what Bin Laden says Israel is way down on his list of grievances with the US, behind such things as US presence in Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, modern Islamic fundamentalism has its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood founded in Egypt in the 1920's long before there was an Israel. The idea that America is hated because of Israel is a sad excuse for critical thinking. Certainly support for Israel creates anger in the Arab world, but it is not the main reason for hostility towards the US. In fact the strong relationship between the US and Israel only dates back to the 1970's, but there was hatred toward the US before then also. People that make this claim that it's all about support for Israel tend to not look too closely at history or the evidence and prefer to heap blame on Israel because its convenient and popular with a certain crowd on the left.