Proof of Quana "massacre" staging...
jsand
Posts: 646
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPAkc5CLgc&eurl=
Good ol' green helmet guy directing the photographers.
Priceless.
Good ol' green helmet guy directing the photographers.
Priceless.
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Actually found this whilst searching your previous posts. Interesting...
The land and people of Palestine were transformed during the thirty years of British rule. The systematic colonization undertaken by the Zionist movement enabled the Jewish community to establish separate and virtually autonomous political, economic, social, cultural, and military institutions. A state within a state was in place by the time the movement launched its drive for independence. The legal underpinnings for the autonomous Jewish community were provided by the British Mandate. The establishment of a Jewish state was first proposed by the British Royal Commission in July 1937 and then endorsed by the UNITED NATIONS in November 1947.
That drive for statehood IGNORED the presence of a Palestinian majority with its own national aspirations. The right to create a Jewish state—and the overwhelming need for such a state—were perceived as overriding Palestinian counterclaims. Few members of the yishuv supported the idea of binationalism. Rather, territorial partition was seen by most Zionist leaders as the way to gain statehood while according certain national rights to the Palestinians. TRANSFER of Palestinians to neighboring Arab states was also envisaged as a means to ensure the formation of a homogeneous Jewish territory. The implementation of those approaches led to the formation of independent Israel, at the cost of dismembering the Palestinian community and fostering long-term hostility with the Arab world.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/an...azisupport.cfm
Nazi Support of Zionism
Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained “we must, above all, make it an international political issue.”[1]Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.”[2]In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”
51 Documents:
Zionist Collaboration
with the NazisZionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.[3] [4] [5] [6] Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.[7] [8] During the 1930’s, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized “Kibbutz” training camps[9] over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of “Israel”.[10]
The Transfer Agreement (which promoted the emigration of German Jews to Palestine) implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII is an important example of the cooperation between Hitler’s Germany and international Zionism. [11] Through this agreement, Hitler’s Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930’s to support Jewish development in Palestine and further the Zionist goals.
Hitler and the Zionists had a common goal: to create a world Jewish Ghetto as a solution to the Jewish Question.
The Transfer AgreementThe Zionist so-called “World Jewish Congress” declared war on the country of Germany,[12] [13] knowing that it would affect their Jewish brothers residing in that country who would be left without protection. When others tried to help them escape to other countries, the Zionist movement took actions which caused those countries to lock their doors to Jewish immigration (read more in the books, “Perfidy” and “Min Hametzer”). As a result of the Zionist influence five ships of Jewish refugees from Germany arriving in the United States were turned back to the gas chambers.
The fundamental aim of the Zionist movement has been not to save Jewish lives but to create a “Jewish state” in Palestine.
On December 7, 1938, Ben Gurion, the first head of the Zionist ‘state of Israel’ declared “If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel.”[14]
On August 31, 1949, Ben Gurion stated: “Although we have realized our dream of creating a Jewish State, we are only at the beginning. There are still only 900,000 Jews in Israel, whereas the majority of the Jewish people still remains abroad. Our future task is to bring all the Jews to Israel.”
Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine. The vast majority, 75%, went to the Soviet Union. In the mid-70’s, more people emigrated out of ‘Israel’ than came in. The only surges of immigration to the Zionist state have occurred during anti-Semitic threats and persecution in foreign countries.[15]
It follows that for the Zionist state to achieve its goal of a Jewish world ghetto anti-Semitism must be promoted and encouraged, and as we have seen, by acts of violence if necessary.
“To attain its practical objectives, Zionism hopes it will be able to collaborate with a government that is fundamentally hostile to the Jews”.[16]
The use of anti-Semitism as a tool to coerce immigration to the Zionist state continues to the present day:
Prime Minister Sharon has stated that anti-Semitism is on the rise and that the only hope for the safety of Jews is to move to Israel under the protection of the Zionist state. “The best solution to anti-Semitism is immigration to Israel. It is the only place on Earth where Jews can live as Jews," he said.[17]
Those who continue to call the so-called “state of Israel” the “Jewish State” are not only promoting Zionism which is contrary to the beliefs of true Judaism, but also endorsing the promotion of worldwide anti-Semitism. In doing so they are endangering the lives of traditional Jews and denying their civil liberties and human rights.
When the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour (sponsor of the 1905 Aliens Act to restrict Jewish immigration to the UK), wanted the British government to commit itself to a Jewish homeland in Palestine, his declaration was delayed - not by anti-Semites but by leading figures in the British Jewish community. They included a Jewish member of the cabinet who called Balfour's pro-Zionism "anti-Semitic in result". In contrast, a great statesman like Secretary of State Colin Powell, a supporter of traditional Judaism, has the courage to separate Judaism from Zionism and to acknowledge that speaking out against the actions of the Zionist state is not “anti-Semitism”.
We call upon our leaders in Washington to disassociate the actions of the Zionist state from traditional Judaism by no longer referring to “Israel” as the “Jewish State” but as “the Zionist State” and to speak out against the Zionist actions which promote anti-Semitism.
Bibliography:
“Zionism and the Third Reich”, Author: Mark Weber, The Journal for Historical Review
(http://www.ihr.org), July/August 1993, Volume 13, Number 4, page 29.
Hitlers Zweites Buch – ein Dokument aus dem Jahr 1928, Stuttgart, 1961. English translation: Hitler’s Secret Book, New York, 1961, pp 212-215.
Berlin Encyclopaedia Judaica (New York and Jerusalem: 1971), Vol. 5, p.648.
See also, J.-C. Horak, “Zionist Film Propaganda in Nazi Germany,” Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television, Vol. 4, No. 1, 1984, pp 49-58.
Perfidy, Author: Ben Hecht, Milah Press, Incorporated; April 1, 1997
Min Hameitzer, Author:Rabbi Weissmandl; The book Unheeded Cry by Abraham Fuchs, is a partial translation.
Holocaust Encyclopedia, “Escape from German Occupied Europe”, http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.ph...eId=100 05470
“Immigration Policies”, Jewish Virtual Library, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...st/grobim.html
“The Tragedy of the S.S. St. Louis”, Jewish Virtual Library, http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...t/stlouis.html
[1] Quoted in: Ingrid Wecker, Feuerzeichen: Die “Reichskristallnacht” (Tubingen: Grabert, 1981), p. 212. See also: Th. Herzl, The Jewish State (New York: Herzl Press, 1970), pp 33, 35, 36, and Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement (New York: Macmillan, 1984), p.73
[2] Th. Herzl, “Der Kongress, “ Welt, June 4, 1897. Reprinted in: Theodore Herzls zionistische Schriften (Leon Kellner, ed.), ester Teil, Berlin: Judischer Verlag, 1920, p. 190 (and p.139)
[3] Francis R. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 54-55.; Karl A. Schleunes, The Twisted Road to Auschwitz (Urbana: Univ. of Illinois, 1970, 1990) pp. 178-181
[4] Jacob Boas, “A Nazi Travels to Palestine,” History Today (London), January, 1980, pp. 33-38.
[5] Facsimile reprint of front page of Das Schwarze Korp, May 15, 1935, in: Janusz Piekalkiewicz, Israels Langer Arm (Frankfurt: Goverts, 1975), pp. 66-67.
[6] Das Schwarze Korps, Sept. 26, 1935. Quoted in: F. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 56-57
[7] F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 141-144; On Hitler’s critical view of Zionism in Mein Kapf, see. Esp. Vol. 1, Chap. 11. Quoted in: Robert Wistrich, Hitler’s Apocalypse (London: 1985), p. 155.;
[8] W. Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavra-Transfer (1972). Entire text in: David Yisraeli, The Palestine Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1974), pp. 132-136.
[9] Y. Arad, et al., eds., Documents On the Holocaust (1981), p. 155. (The training kibbutz was at Neuendorf, and may have functioned even after March 1942.)
[10] Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945 (New York: Bantam, pb., 1976), pp 253-254; Max Nussbaum, “Zionism Under Hitler,” Congress Weekly (New York: American Jewish Congress), Sept. 11, 1942.; F. Nicosia, The Third Reich (1985), pp 58-60, 217.; Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement (1984), p. 175.
[11] E. Black, The Transfer Agreement (1984), pp. 328, 337.
[12] “Judea Declares War on Germany!” – London Daily Express headline, March 24th, 1933
[13] “The worldwide boycott against Germany in 1933 and the later all-out declaration of war against Germany initiated by the Zionist leaders and the World Jewish Congress enraged Hitler so that he threatened to destroy the Jews…” (Rabbi Schwartz, New York Times, Sept. 30, 1997)
[14] Yvon Gelbner, “Zionist policy and the fate of European Jewry”, in Yad Vashem studies (Jerusalem, vol. XII, p. 199).
[15] Institute for Jewish Affairs of New York, quoted by Christopher Sykes in “Crossroads to Isarl”, London 1965, and by Nathan Weinstock, “Le sionisme contre Israel,” p. 146.
[16] Lucy Dawidovitch, “A Holocaust Reader”, p. 155.
[17] “Sharon Urges Jews to go to Israel”, BBC News, 17 Nov. 2003, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3275979.stm
http://www.washington-report.org/html/focus.htm
__________________
The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
So maybe this was staged to make them look even worse. So what? Is it not true they are bombing and killing hundreds of civilians?
From what I have understood in that case is that they levelled a building, killing only 1 but injuring 24. things may have gone fast, and someone might have wanted to maximize a bit. Both sides plays the media. Everyone stop pretending that only one side does.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
How is this proof? You've already tried before to 'prove' that this massacre was staged. The massacre wasn't staged. Some piece of footage on YouTube doesn't change that fact. Why are you so desperate in your attempts to deny that the Israeli army is massacring civilians jsand? There's something quite sick and disturbing in your efforts to attempt to defend murderers.
Both sides recognize the importance of the media, but I've never seen Israel do something as cynical and sick as this.
it happened, the day after there was a Quebec reporters team doing interviews and showing the bodies, if something is wrong it might be the number of death, but there's nothing stage in Qana, civillians died period.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Staging doesn't mean the people didn't die. It means that their deaths were cynically used as part of Hezbollah's media strategy. Come on, you saw the video also. It's just wrong. You don't use the dead like that.
I am not going where my mind was heading.....
There were no Hezbollah in the video i've seen, the man interviewed was the owner of the house and talked about how everything happened, then they interviewed a red cross worker, who just collapse and start crying, saying it was tough to get so many KIDS body out of that mess, then he wipe his tears and manage to put himself back together and start searching for more bodies...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
uhhh ... jsand has posted a thread before saying hezbollah took the building down that caused the deaths ... i don't know about you but staging means fraud ... exploitation might be a better word ...
Yet you see this everytime this kind of story happen, they take the kids or the deaths as symbol and lift them over their heads marching and chanting, it happened in Iraq, it happened in Israel, it happened in Rwanda, it happened in Lebanon, it might be disgusting, yet it's not a Lebanese govt. feature...
But hey, all the images we get out of Cana are not real, the man who collapses on tv was probably an actor, and the owner of the house probably a random citizens they took on the street to give an interview (probably gave him a text) with a Canadian television... i guess that's what we should believe...
In the end it just doesn't matter, this kid on the video is already dead, he's been killed.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
It must really suck to be one of these people that takes a side in this madness. I'd hate to have to defend either one.
jsand, stop being such a big pussy and reply to my other posts. I want you to clarify your previous remarks about Siniora and his alleged responsibility for Hizbollah's current strength. You displayed your ignorance, and now you're hiding like a big coward unwilling to acknowledge the mistake. You obviously knew nothing about the political situation in Lebanon over the past 5 years, and it's time to admit it.
AGAIN you fucking twat, I'm not saying that people, kids, didn't die. They did, and that's terrible. But how can you not be disgusted by people taking the bodies of dead children out of ambulances so they can be filmed again in a more heart wrenching way. That's an abuse of the dead. It's sick. I honestly think that if you people cannot at least agree that this is disgusting then you have absolutely no morals.
Fine, whatever word you want to use. The point is that it's disgusting.
YOU are disgusting and racist. Your arguments and positions have no basis in fact, and in the name of humanity, your use of this board needs to be permanently shut down. You're a vile bigot with no grasp of reality and no decency. To call out me is one thing, but to call out Shiraz, who is in a bomb shelter in Israel, is sick. You need serious help, asshole.
Mods?
Personal, unconstructive, foul mouthed attack. Sure I didnt sign up for that on the Message Pit terms and conditions page.
Mods?
Sliverstain is calling people names. He's saying people are disgusting and racist. This is insulting to people and is unconstructive. Shouldn't he be banned for such terrible, aweful, no-good, very-bad comments?
Certainly. But why was this the time for Israel to take it back fom low-intensity conflict, and knock it up to massive air campaign displacing the entire population of southern Lebanon, knocking out all roads and bridges in most of Lebanon and massive bombing of populated areas that consists of 99.98% innocents? That they have justification and reasons for themselves, I do not doubt. That any of the justification and reasoning holds if you posit that an arab's life is as much worth as an Israeli's life is another matter.
To put it short, yes, Hizbollah is a legitimate enemy for Israel to strike at and stop. And in no possible way is Israel justified in boming all of Lebanon rather indiscriminately or at least using a pretty wide definition of military targets for that. Targetted strikes at Hizbollah military positions to stop them from shooting stuff into Israel, ok. Bombing a block in Beirut because a Hizbollah guy is supposed to reside there, not at all ok. Israel is way out of bounds and any reasonable justification in doing this. I'm just hoping there's anything left of Lebanon when they stop. Hizbollah seems to be doing dandy in all of this.
And I could also somewhat understand if Lebanon was beginning to threaten Israel, or it was going in a hostile direction. But it wasn't. If anything, Syria was becoming massively unpopular, and more and more Lebanese were demanding that they fuck off. Lebanon was moving in the right direction it would seem.
And as I was saying before, supporting any of the warring parties unconditionally down there is pretty simplistic wrong and narrowminded. Now that I have vented my frustration with Israel, I can also highlight my big FUCK YOU to supposed "freedom-making" guerillas that consistently target civilians inside Israel rather than more legitimate military targets. Fuck 'em. My point is that the Lebanese civilian population is not in any way a warring party, but clinched between extremist fuckheads Hizbollah, and doesn't-care-too-much-about-collateral-damage Israel.
So in conclusion, not supporting Hizbollah, not lending them credibility of any kind, and frankly I hate their guts in their terrorist tactics against civilians. Neither do I support let's-use-nukes-to-get-those-damn-sparrows Israel and their customary response to anything. Lebanon is a disgrace for all of the involved, and I refuse to absolve any party of guilt. Not the party using fancy bombers and "smart bombs" either.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I disagree slightly, but in general that's cool. I respect that opinion.
If it's the truth and it will save lives why not? Do you think israel would have said a word about those deaths if no one else would of? DOnt act like you're this humanitarian wonder thats just hurting inside doing what you have to do. You probably have a scoreboard that you add notches too everytime you hear an Isreali advance. AT LEAST, be human enough to admit what you are, instead of trying to play the tragic warrior.
How is abusing the dead going to save lives? I have no problem with reporting on deaths and showing pictures of the war, but what happened was the use of dead bodies to stage scenes for the camera. That is disgusting. Don't presume to tell me what I do and do not feel. I at least am willing to say that civilian deaths are tragic regardless of what country they occur in. I haven't seen you utter even so much as equivalent sympathy for those who have been brutally murdered in Israel. No, I have no scoreboard on my wall, and I do feel for those who are killed, but do you know the best way not to be attacked by Israel is to not attack her first. It's enough already. For sixty years Arab states and terrorists have been attacking Israel and then they go crying to the world when Israel beats the shit out of them. Every Arab state that has come to Israel willing to make a real peace has found Israel willing to do so. It happened with Egypt and Jordan, and was on the way to happening with the Palestinians if Arafat hadn't torpedoed the deal. I'm just sick of this shit. If you feel so bad for the Lebanese go mouth off at them that they will have alot less to fear from Israel if they can get their countrymen to stop provoking Israel.
http://www.counterpunch.org/
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Sorry, but that is a load of shit. If you look at what Bin Laden says Israel is way down on his list of grievances with the US, behind such things as US presence in Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, modern Islamic fundamentalism has its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood founded in Egypt in the 1920's long before there was an Israel. The idea that America is hated because of Israel is a sad excuse for critical thinking. Certainly support for Israel creates anger in the Arab world, but it is not the main reason for hostility towards the US. In fact the strong relationship between the US and Israel only dates back to the 1970's, but there was hatred toward the US before then also. People that make this claim that it's all about support for Israel tend to not look too closely at history or the evidence and prefer to heap blame on Israel because its convenient and popular with a certain crowd on the left.