I see a pattern emerging...

Vedderlution_Baby

Cosmo wrote:

...
You're just noticing this now? It has nothing to do with Israel/Lebanon and everything to do with news services.
With the real time reporting of events, 'Breaking News' is a ratings coup... were you around in 1991 when Desert Shield turned into Desert Storm? That made cable news what it is today.
Now... in order to get the story out, reporters are dispatched and ask for eye-witness accounts. These accounts are relayed, without verification, to dispatch centers and on to newsrooms. The Editors or news directors decide whether or not to go public with the story, based upon these eye-witnesses.
This is how FOX News runs 'Breaking news' stories about W.M.D. finds... then, realize that they've found welding tanks... and how wire services spit out unreliable, exaggerated eye-witness accounts from frenzied individuals that may or may not have witnessed the event.

Cosmo, we've argued a lot, but I just want to say I respect the hell out of you.

jsand

Cosmo wrote:

...
You're just noticing this now? It has nothing to do with Israel/Lebanon and everything to do with news services.
With the real time reporting of events, 'Breaking News' is a ratings coup... were you around in 1991 when Desert Shield turned into Desert Storm? That made cable news what it is today.
Now... in order to get the story out, reporters are dispatched and ask for eye-witness accounts. These accounts are relayed, without verification, to dispatch centers and on to newsrooms. The Editors or news directors decide whether or not to go public with the story, based upon these eye-witnesses.
This is how FOX News runs 'Breaking news' stories about W.M.D. finds... then, realize that they've found welding tanks... and how wire services spit out unreliable, exaggerated eye-witness accounts from frenzied individuals that may or may not have witnessed the event.

Wrong. It has everything to do with Lebanon and its government's propoganda machine, which churned out the inflated death toll in Quana and now did it again in this case. A high-ranking government official should not throw around the term "massacre" lightly, especially when the alleged massacre turned out to be the death of 1 person.

Human Tide

jsand wrote:

Wrong. It has everything to do with Lebanon and its government's propoganda machine, which churned out the inflated death toll in Quana and now did it again in this case. A high-ranking government official should not throw around the term "massacre" lightly, especially when the alleged massacre turned out to be the death of 1 person.

They pulled many survivors from the rubble of the building, which were the people they initially thought were dead. That should be considered good news, and I'm the sure the Lebanese PM is happy to have been so wrong.

PaperPlates

farfromglorified wrote:

Interesting. Then why do you believe this?

Because I find it very easy to believe that phots and news gets doctored. That didnt take a news agency to notice. It took a few photoshop rookies and anyone with half a brain to spot that one particular doctor'd image.

And do we seriously think PROOF of doctored news and photos is gonna sway these people (here on the pit) to common sense? I mean, for fucks sake, they defend the president of Iran. They won't have any problems (or tons of excuses) with this. Figures.

Cosmo

jsand wrote:

Wrong. It has everything to do with Lebanon and its government's propoganda machine, which churned out the inflated death toll in Quana and now did it again in this case. A high-ranking government official should not throw around the term "massacre" lightly, especially when the alleged massacre turned out to be the death of 1 person.

...
You're right... high ranking government officials should not throw around over exaggerated terms or descriptors... such as, "I never had sexual relations with that woman", "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud" or "My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."

PaperPlates

jsand wrote:

Wrong. It has everything to do with Lebanon and its government's propoganda machine, which churned out the inflated death toll in Quana and now did it again in this case. A high-ranking government official should not throw around the term "massacre" lightly, especially when the alleged massacre turned out to be the death of 1 person.

quoted 4 emphasis.

Noones trying to blow off any deaths. All deaths are sad, even to us "warmongers". We just understand sometimes they're necessary. However, intentionaly doctoring of photos or deathcounts, is much more of a problem than actual mistakes. Especially when the aim is to put america's citizens against each other. Inflating death counts is one fucked up little "mistake".

inmytree

PaperPlates wrote:

quoted 4 emphasis.

Noones trying to blow off any deaths. All deaths are sad, even to us "warmongers". We just understand sometimes they're necessary. However, intentionaly doctoring of photos or deathcounts, is much more of a problem than actual mistakes. Especially when the aim is to put america's citizens against each other. Inflating death counts is one fucked up little "mistake".

I'm calling bullshit...deaths are not "sad" to you or anyone else who think they are "necessary"...

yosi1

inmytree wrote:

I'm calling bullshit...deaths are not "sad" to you or anyone else who think they are "necessary"...

Maybe I'm wrong but I think unavoidable was what the poster was trying to say.

jsand

Human Tide wrote:

They pulled many survivors from the rubble of the building, which were the people they initially thought were dead. That should be considered good news, and I'm the sure the Lebanese PM is happy to have been so wrong.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

Siniora had earlier told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut that the attack “was a horrific massacre ... in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing.”

Now he can't use the incident to fan the flames of the Arab league's hatred against Israel.

By the way, if the purported civilians were "martyrs," what cause would they have been dying for??

PaperPlates

inmytree wrote:

I'm calling bullshit...deaths are not "sad" to you or anyone else who think they are "necessary"...

What else does your crystal ball, or all knowing powers tell you about me? There's a difference between understanding that sometimes war is necessary, and celebrating death. And in case I need to remind you, many people on the other side of this conflict, danced on 9/11, and dance whenever they hear or read of american deaths. I have never danced a jig whilst reading the news. Sometimes Im even choked up by it. Do you run your entire life on emotions? Sometimes emotion has to be tossed aside, so reality and all that goes with it can be attended to.

PaperPlates

yosi wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong but I think unavoidable was what the poster was trying to say.

No I wasnt. They think its avoidable. They refuse to realize what exactly we are at war with. I know its avoidable. If we wanted to avoid these deaths, we could just roll over and let them have w/e the fuck they want, which is world wide islam. I used the word I meant. Necessary. Kinda like a "necessary evil".

O-ren Ishii

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

They certainly aren't helping themselves are they? They're losing the sympathies and credibility that they have. One person is still too much for me though. Atleast they said it wasn't true themselves though.

No. I think that Israel and the U.S. are top in the "losing the sympathies and credibility" category.

farfromglorified

PaperPlates wrote:

Because I find it very easy to believe that phots and news gets doctored.

Ok. Is it also not "very easy to believe" that Israel could kill 40 people in an airstrike? Or are you just less likely to "lap that up"?

And do we seriously think PROOF of doctored news and photos is gonna sway these people (here on the pit) to common sense?

No. That said, the undoctored news and legitimate photos won't say the others.

inmytree

PaperPlates wrote:

What else does your crystal ball, or all knowing powers tell you about me? There's a difference between understanding that sometimes war is necessary, and celebrating death. And in case I need to remind you, many people on the other side of this conflict, danced on 9/11, and dance whenever they hear or read of american deaths. I have never danced a jig whilst reading the news. Sometimes Im even choked up by it. Do you run your entire life on emotions? Sometimes emotion has to be tossed aside, so reality and all that goes with it can be attended to.

tell me again which deaths make you "sad"...only the good ones...?

I have to admit, I do find it sad, when people are called out for the type of thinking that death is ok, they pull the 9/11 card...when in doubt pull it out, I guess...

for me, tossing out the emotions raised when one sees, hears, reads about the death of an innocent person makes that person a cold-hearted person who cares about nothing but themselves....

Human Tide

jsand wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/07/mideast.main/index.html

Siniora had earlier told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut that the attack “was a horrific massacre ... in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing.”

Now he can't use the incident to fan the flames of the Arab league's hatred against Israel.

By the way, if the purported civilians were "martyrs," what cause would they have been dying for??

As I mentioned, many people were pulled from the rubble and they are very lucky to be alive. Siniora and all Lebanese are certainly thankful that things were not as bad as previously thought. To refer to people as martyrs is a respectful way of saying they didn't die in vain. If you were to ask Siniora, he would say they died for Lebanon. This, of course, if really not the point.

After weeks of bombing and hundreds of civilians killed, do you really think Siniora needs to say anything to "fan the flames"? Is there any ambiguity in the Arab feelings towards Israel? Nobody needs to be convinced of whether Israel's actions are justified.

Do you think he's really upset that all those people actually survived?

Cosmo

I get my news from reliable sources... like this one:
http://weeklyworldnews.com/features/politics/61711

farfromglorified

wrong thread....

shiraz

Just like those faked pictures, one of the sad things [1] about this case is the stuff it could have casued, as if the situation here (and in the rest of the world) isn't bad enough. I thought govts are the ones who are playing with my life. Well, I guess I can add the media to the same list, and no one would seem to care about it too much.


[1] the main thing is anotner dead civilian.

Laz

wow the media isn't impartial? I'm shocked!!!

jsand

Human Tide wrote:

Is there any ambiguity in the Arab feelings towards Israel? Nobody needs to be convinced of whether Israel's actions are justified.

Exactly right. There never has been any ambiguity in the Arab world's stance on Israel. The Iranian psychopath expresses their views clearly - they want Israel wiped off the map. Whether Israel's actions in this current conflict are justified are not, this sentiment has never changed since the formation of modern Israel, which is why, as you correctly say, "nobody needs to be convinced of whether Israel's actions are justified."