Bush reading our mail ?!?
flywallyfly
Posts: 1,453
WASHINGTON - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the Daily News has learned.
The President asserted his new authority when he signed a postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions.
That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it.
Bush's move came during the winter congressional recess and a year after his secret domestic electronic eavesdropping program was first revealed. It caught Capitol Hill by surprise.
"Despite the President's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.
Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.
"The [Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.
"The danger is they're reading Americans' mail," she said.
"You have to be concerned," agreed a career senior U.S. official who reviewed the legal underpinnings of Bush's claim. "It takes Executive Branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."
A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised, "It's something we're going to look into."
Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane reform measures. But it also explicitly reinforced protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.
Yet in his statement Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."
Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."
White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming any new authority.
"In certain circumstances - such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' - the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches," she said.
Bush, however, cited "exigent circumstances" which could refer to an imminent danger or a longstanding state of emergency.
Critics point out the administration could quickly get a warrant from a criminal court or a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge to search targeted mail, and the Postal Service could block delivery in the meantime.
But the Bush White House appears to be taking no chances on a judge saying no while a terror attack is looming, national security experts agreed.
Martin said that Bush is "using the same legal reasoning to justify warrantless opening of domestic mail" as he did with warrantless eavesdropping.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/485561p-408789c.html
The President asserted his new authority when he signed a postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions.
That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it.
Bush's move came during the winter congressional recess and a year after his secret domestic electronic eavesdropping program was first revealed. It caught Capitol Hill by surprise.
"Despite the President's statement that he may be able to circumvent a basic privacy protection, the new postal law continues to prohibit the government from snooping into people's mail without a warrant," said Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), the incoming House Government Reform Committee chairman, who co-sponsored the bill.
Experts said the new powers could be easily abused and used to vacuum up large amounts of mail.
"The [Bush] signing statement claims authority to open domestic mail without a warrant, and that would be new and quite alarming," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies in Washington.
"The danger is they're reading Americans' mail," she said.
"You have to be concerned," agreed a career senior U.S. official who reviewed the legal underpinnings of Bush's claim. "It takes Executive Branch authority beyond anything we've ever known."
A top Senate Intelligence Committee aide promised, "It's something we're going to look into."
Most of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act deals with mundane reform measures. But it also explicitly reinforced protections of first-class mail from searches without a court's approval.
Yet in his statement Bush said he will "construe" an exception, "which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection in a manner consistent ... with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances."
Bush cited as examples the need to "protect human life and safety against hazardous materials and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."
White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore denied Bush was claiming any new authority.
"In certain circumstances - such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' - the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches," she said.
Bush, however, cited "exigent circumstances" which could refer to an imminent danger or a longstanding state of emergency.
Critics point out the administration could quickly get a warrant from a criminal court or a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge to search targeted mail, and the Postal Service could block delivery in the meantime.
But the Bush White House appears to be taking no chances on a judge saying no while a terror attack is looming, national security experts agreed.
Martin said that Bush is "using the same legal reasoning to justify warrantless opening of domestic mail" as he did with warrantless eavesdropping.
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/485561p-408789c.html
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Comments
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I didn't know he COULD read.flywallyfly wrote:WASHINGTON - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the Daily News has learned.
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qtegirl wrote:I didn't know he COULD read.
Hehehe! Cheney reads it to him during storytime! Little Georgie climbs up into Uncle Dick's lap, sticks his thumb in his mouth, and starts giggling.0 -
future generations will someday look back at us and shake their heads in disbelief what we allowed to happen. the consolidation of power within the executive branch under this administration is extremely dangerous, and downright appaling. we only have ourselves to blame.0
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my2hands wrote:future generations will someday look back at us and shake their heads in disbelief what we allowed to happen. the consolidation of power within the executive branch under this administration is extremely dangerous, and downright appaling. we only have ourselves to blame.
Agreed. This, alone, doesn't seem like a huge deal for most people. They get bills, statements, subscription and credit card offers, catalogs and other assorted junk mail. Why should they care if the gov't wants to look through it? But this is just a further erosion of our privacy and liberty. It has happened inch by inch and all in the name of security. People should be appalled. I'm afraid they'll just be apathetic."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
Well, probably too late for this president, but I don't think it is too late for us in general. I think we saw some backlash this past election which showed change can happen.my2hands wrote:too late"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
This goes back to the whole signing statement issues and the fact that Bush has signed about, what?, 800 of them during his tenure?
So far, no one has challenged him on any of them (that I know of). Until that happens, he will keep signing away.0 -
jeffbr wrote:Well, probably too late for this president, but I don't think it is too late for us in general. I think we saw some backlash this past election which showed change can happen.
the only change that will happen is the R is replaced with the D, they are both sold to the highest bidder.0 -
I don't think the challenge would ever come from congress. I mean, those signing-statements are a nice little gadget. Since a lot of congresspeople see themselves as possible presidents, why would you put a stop to such a neat thing?my2hands wrote:the only change that will happen is the R is replaced with the D, they are both sold to the highest bidder.
Hillary, McCain, Obama, whoever, are probably thinking to themselves: man, I can't wait til I can do that!
The only challenge will come from the citizenry and then through the courts. Which, should show their independence from the other branches of government and declare all signing statements unconstitutional.0 -
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.0 -
jeffbr wrote:Agreed. This, alone, doesn't seem like a huge deal for most people. They get bills, statements, subscription and credit card offers, catalogs and other assorted junk mail. Why should they care if the gov't wants to look through it? But this is just a further erosion of our privacy and liberty. It has happened inch by inch and all in the name of security. People should be appalled. I'm afraid they'll just be apathetic.
If it keeps terrorists fucks from attacking us then the govt can read my mail, listen to my phone calls, come take a blood samples, photograph my dog etc. I'm willing to sacrifice some privacy to keep our people safe.“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra0 -
jeffbr wrote:Agreed. This, alone, doesn't seem like a huge deal for most people. They get bills, statements, subscription and credit card offers, catalogs and other assorted junk mail. Why should they care if the gov't wants to look through it? But this is just a further erosion of our privacy and liberty. It has happened inch by inch and all in the name of security. People should be appalled. I'm afraid they'll just be apathetic.
Well I care. Even if they just see the bills I don't WANT them to see how much I spent on the Pearl Jam 2006 tour! On a slightly more serious note I do care. I'm not sure what else to do though, except vote for people who wouldn't support this.R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 20080 -
yield2me wrote:If it keeps terrorists fucks from attacking us then the govt can read my mail, listen to my phone calls, come take a blood samples, photograph my dog etc. I'm willing to sacrifice some privacy to keep our people safe.
sweet fanny moses...are you really that afraid....?0 -
YOU are exactly what is wrong with this country. It's people like you who not only allow but encourage the abuses of this administration.yield2me wrote:If it keeps terrorists fucks from attacking us then the govt can read my mail, listen to my phone calls, come take a blood samples, photograph my dog etc. I'm willing to sacrifice some privacy to keep our people safe.
It must suck to be that scared."Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 19630 -
inmytree wrote:sweet fanny moses...are you really that afraid....?
these people want us dead, they want our country wiped off the earth. I'd say we do what we have to do in order to keep our citizens safe. Yes it sucks to give up some of our privacy but I still say that it is worth it if we can prevent another 9/11 from happening.“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra0 -
yield2me wrote:these people want us dead, they want our country wiped off the earth. I'd say we do what we have to do in order to keep our citizens safe. Yes it sucks to give up some of our privacy but I still say that it is worth it if we can prevent another 9/11 from happening.
wow...do you even leave your house...?
by the way, what's your real name, address, and email address (with password)...since you don't mind random people looking through your mail, you should have no problem sharing...right...0 -
inmytree wrote:wow...do you even leave your house...?
by the way, what's your real name, address, and email address (with password)...since you don't mind random people looking through your mail, you should have no problem sharing...right...
Yes I leave my house and honestly I'm not afraid of really anyone or anything. I believe that when its your time its your time, but the point i'm making and the one you're not seeming to grasp is that if we can keep people from being killed by these idiots by letting the govt read through peoples mail that they suspect to be terrorists, then so be it.
To answer your question about my name, address etc. If the govt wants to look through my stuff then they're welcome. They are elected by us and represent us, you don't!“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra0 -
yield2me wrote:Yes I leave my house and honestly I'm not afraid of really anyone or anything. I believe that when its your time its your time, but the point i'm making and the one you're not seeming to grasp is that if we can keep people from being killed by these idiots by letting the govt read through peoples mail that they suspect to be terrorists, then so be it.
To answer your question about my name, address etc. If the govt wants to look through my stuff then they're welcome. They are elected by us and represent us, you don't!
Suddenly the terrorists don't scare me anymore. You do.0 -
yield2me wrote:Yes I leave my house and honestly I'm not afraid of really anyone or anything. I believe that when its your time its your time, but the point i'm making and the one you're not seeming to grasp is that if we can keep people from being killed by these idiots by letting the govt read through peoples mail that they suspect to be terrorists, then so be it.
To answer your question about my name, address etc. If the govt wants to look through my stuff then they're welcome. They are elected by us and represent us, you don't!
so you trust everyone who works for the gov't...? good luck with that...
then again, perhaps you're right...I'm sure bin laden sends holiday and birthday cards in the mail...with treasure maps and secret codes that can only be deciphered with a ovaltine decoder ring....
yeah, we are soo much safer today....0 -
inmytree wrote:so you trust everyone who works for the gov't...? good luck with that...
then again, perhaps you're right...I'm sure bin laden sends holiday and birthday cards in the mail...with treasure maps and secret codes that can only be deciphered with a ovaltine decoder ring....
yeah, we are soo much safer today....
No, I don't trust everyone who works for the govt, but I also don't give a fuck if they read my mail...put yourself in their shoes. How do you prevent terrorists attacks when you have terrorists living in the country they want to attack?
You're entitled to think what you want and I won't attack your beliefs, but I do think we are safer today.“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra0
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