so looking at nader's stock portfolio and campaign contributers i don't see the same company(ies) in both areas...
now....in my view, nader is not beholden to any of the companies in his portfolio....i believe he is doing what we as americans should do....instead of just complaining that, say gas prices are to high, buy stock in the oil companies which will then give you the opportunity to perhaps make a change in how that company runs it's business....not that i'm saying that nader is doing this but i think bringing up this type of info is really a weak argument against nader and his campaign....and if this is important to you well then you might want to take a look at where democrats and republicans get their money....that, to me, seems to be the bigger issue....:)
My biggest problem with Nader is not his views or what he has done or what he has not done. It is his inability to turn all of his accomplishments into something inspirational for more than a small minority of people. He couldn't even get 15% of the votes in 2004 with both those other jokers on the ballot. As unfortunate as it is, he has to play the game if he ever wants to get anywhere in a public office. And he does not play that game.
My biggest problem with Nader is not his views or what he has done or what he has not done. It is his inability to turn all of his accomplishments into something inspirational for more than a small minority of people. He couldn't even get 15% of the votes in 2004 with both those other jokers on the ballot. As unfortunate as it is, he has to play the game if he ever wants to get anywhere in a public office. And he does not play that game.
Is that Nader's fault or people's fault?
Like many have already said...let him into the debates. Imagine if he had all the exposure from the media that mainstreams have. Imagine if he had the kind of money the others get from corporate donors to go on publicity tours that last for years so sell himself from state to state.....it would make all the difference in the world. But he doesn't do that. He's busy fighting the good fight year in and year out. And he doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money, he has no corporate donors pushing him forward and the media paints him negatively and never discusses his accomplishments objectively the way the 'news' is supposed to. He is the only candidate running that has actually brought change about in this country, fought the odds for US and won and fought for the people's rights and safety BEFORE hos own personal gain....but somehow he is undeserving?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
so looking at nader's stock portfolio and campaign contributers i don't see the same company(ies) in both areas...
now....in my view, nader is not beholden to any of the companies in his portfolio....i believe he is doing what we as americans should do....instead of just complaining that, say gas prices are to high, buy stock in the oil companies which will then give you the opportunity to perhaps make a change in how that company runs it's business....not that i'm saying that nader is doing this but i think bringing up this type of info is really a weak argument against nader and his campaign....and if this is important to you well then you might want to take a look at where democrats and republicans get their money....that, to me, seems to be the bigger issue....:)
Good points!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Like many have already said...let him into the debates. Imagine if he had all the exposure from the media that mainstreams have. Imagine if he had the kind of money the others get from corporate donors to go on publicity tours that last for years so sell himself from state to state.....it would make all the difference in the world. But he doesn't do that. He's busy fighting the good fight year in and year out. And he doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money, he has no corporate donors pushing him forward and the media paints him negatively and never discusses his accomplishments objectively the way the 'news' is supposed to. He is the only candidate running that has actually brought change about in this country, fought the odds for US and won and fought for the people's rights and safety BEFORE hos own personal gain....but somehow he is undeserving?
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He still is not able to inspire. You are inspired by him and that's great. I would love to see him play a more prominent role in the election, too. But that does not mean his inspiration is propogated to everyone. You can blame whomever you wish. If he really had a passion to become the next president, he would make it work. He has passion, as evidenced by his accomplishments, he just needs to reharness it.
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He still is not able to inspire. You are inspired by him and that's great. I would love to see him play a more prominent role in the election, too. But that does not mean his inspiration is propogated to everyone. You can blame whomever you wish. If he really had a passion to become the next president, he would make it work. He has passion, as evidenced by his accomplishments, he just needs to reharness it.
what like sell himself to corporate donors so he can get the same exposure the mainstream candidates get? that goes against everything he stands for.
what like sell himself to corporate donors so he can get the same exposure the mainstream candidates get? that goes against everything he stands for.
He doesnt have to sell himself to corporate donors, he can just invest in them like he has before. Then he can use his profits to run a campaign against these very corporations. Crazy how that works for some people.
Like many have already said...let him into the debates. Imagine if he had all the exposure from the media that mainstreams have. Imagine if he had the kind of money the others get from corporate donors to go on publicity tours that last for years so sell himself from state to state.....it would make all the difference in the world. But he doesn't do that. He's busy fighting the good fight year in and year out. And he doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money, he has no corporate donors pushing him forward and the media paints him negatively and never discusses his accomplishments objectively the way the 'news' is supposed to. He is the only candidate running that has actually brought change about in this country, fought the odds for US and won and fought for the people's rights and safety BEFORE hos own personal gain....but somehow he is undeserving?
Everyone who has any knowledge of politics knows who Nader is and understands what he is about. Yet he still doesn't stir emotion among voters. He has been running for president for 10 years yet he still doesn't muster support. You can blame the media all you want and they do deserve a part of the blame. Especially the right wing spin media. But some blame must also fall on Naders lap for not having the charisma to galvanize an American public that is begging for a new direction.
Everyone who has any knowledge of politics knows who Nader is and understands what he is about. Yet he still doesn't stir emotion among voters. He has been running for president for 10 years yet he still doesn't muster support. You can blame the media all you want and they do deserve a part of the blame. Especially the right wing spin media. But some blame must also fall on Naders lap for not having the charisma to galvanize an American public that is begging for a new direction.
Which speaks to the public's own downfall of needing celebrity and flare over substance to match their extremely short attention spans. They continue to vote against their own self interest in the face of having a man running who has proven himself to be a public servant and to be devoted to making things better for their lives as citizens in this country AND supports the very issues they poll as agreeing with and wanting to see implemented!
If the American public is serious about wanting a new direction then they have to realize they have to be pro-active and make it happen. They can't just sit back and expect someone else to do it for them. And they can't keep acting surprised and upset that the government they elect is full of shit each time when they were the ones who keep falling for the same crap every year. When it's not an election year, you'll hear almost everyone complaining about the sorry gov't and how corrupt and useless they are....then when it comes time to do something about it....they repeat the same dumb mistake.Doh! It's like getting a bad evaluation at work and then getting a promotion and raise for it!!! There is no sense to be had in this cycle!
The Democrats ran in 06 on ending the war and lead everyone to believe they would get this done. Then they do jack shit but play Republican lite once in office and give Bush/Cheney a free pass. So then their approval rating slipped to lower than Bush's and rightly so. And what do we do?! We say "Hell yeah! Give me some more of that! It's working out just grandly for us so far!"
It's enough to drive a sane person crazy.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If were to be proactive about change, there, I'm sure, are many more people better than Nader. They just have better shit to do.
Really? Such as?
He was named one of the most influential people of the 21st century by Time magazine and inspired a whole rather large group of people to join and rally behind him...known as the Nader's Raiders to fight corrpution and protect people's rights and safety. And he is actually drafted to run for president by people who admire him so much and know him for his leadership and activism. he was being asked to run for president long before he actually did by people who were feeling shut out based on the choices we currently have. I can't think of any activist who has took on big business and brought about change as often as Ralph Nader....not to mention all the non-profit organizations he has started to battle various causes. I'd really be curious to see who you could name that has accomplished more for this country than him.
You should check the the doc An Unreasonable Man if you haven't already.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
He doesnt have to sell himself to corporate donors, he can just invest in them like he has before. Then he can use his profits to run a campaign against these very corporations. Crazy how that works for some people.
yeah, nader's campaign is rolling in the money :rolleyes:
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He still is not able to inspire. You are inspired by him and that's great. I would love to see him play a more prominent role in the election, too. But that does not mean his inspiration is propogated to everyone. You can blame whomever you wish. If he really had a passion to become the next president, he would make it work. He has passion, as evidenced by his accomplishments, he just needs to reharness it.
Really (and sadly), I think this says more about the general public and their priorities of interest.
I overhear a hell of a lot more about American Idol and Dancing with the Stars than I do politics.
When did hard work and results stop counting for something?
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
so looking at nader's stock portfolio and campaign contributers i don't see the same company(ies) in both areas...
now....in my view, nader is not beholden to any of the companies in his portfolio....i believe he is doing what we as americans should do....instead of just complaining that, say gas prices are to high, buy stock in the oil companies which will then give you the opportunity to perhaps make a change in how that company runs it's business....not that i'm saying that nader is doing this but i think bringing up this type of info is really a weak argument against nader and his campaign....and if this is important to you well then you might want to take a look at where democrats and republicans get their money....that, to me, seems to be the bigger issue....:)
Great points, cutback.
Perhaps there's a shade of "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer" somewhere in there.
Admittedly, I do not know much about stocks or what level of shareholder you have to be to have some say in what the company does. But, as a shareholder doesn't he have some say in what the company does? Can somebody who knows this stuff help me out here, please?
And, yeah. If this is all the dirt people can find on Nader, it is my opinion that they seriously grasping at straws.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Which speaks to the public's own downfall of needing celebrity and flare over substance to match their extremely short attention spans. They continue to vote against their own self interest in the face of having a man running who has proven himself to be a public servant and to be devoted to making things better for their lives as citizens in this country AND supports the very issues they poll as agreeing with and wanting to see implemented!
If the American public is serious about wanting a new direction then they have to realize they have to be pro-active and make it happen. They can't just sit back and expect someone else to do it for them. And they can't keep acting surprised and upset that the government they elect is full of shit each time when they were the ones who keep falling for the same crap every year. When it's not an election year, you'll hear almost everyone complaining about the sorry gov't and how corrupt and useless they are....then when it comes time to do something about it....they repeat the same dumb mistake.Doh! It's like getting a bad evaluation at work and then getting a promotion and raise for it!!! There is no sense to be had in this cycle!
The Democrats ran in 06 on ending the war and lead everyone to believe they would get this done. Then they do jack shit but play Republican lite once in office and give Bush/Cheney a free pass. So then their approval rating slipped to lower than Bush's and rightly so. And what do we do?! We say "Hell yeah! Give me some more of that! It's working out just grandly for us so far!"
It's enough to drive a sane person crazy.
I agree with you 100 percent. But that's the reality of the situation. I honestly believe that if Paris Hilton were to run for president she would get more votes than Nader. There are a lot of dumb people in this country and we allow them to vote. I think that's why Barack gets a large number of the educated vote, and I'd be willing to guess that almost all of Nader's supporters are well educated. Like I said it's the reality of the situation. I would love for Kucinich to be the next president, I think he is by far the best candidate. But I will support Obama and I really hope he wins.
He was named one of the most influential people of the 21st century by Time magazine and inspired a whole rather large group of people to join and rally behind him...known as the Nader's Raiders to fight corrpution and protect people's rights and safety. And he is actually drafted to run for president by people who admire him so much and know him for his leadership and activism. he was being asked to run for president long before he actually did by people who were feeling shut out based on the choices we currently have. I can't think of any activist who has took on big business and brought about change as often as Ralph Nader....not to mention all the non-profit organizations he has started to battle various causes. I'd really be curious to see who you could name that has accomplished more for this country than him.
You should check the the doc An Unreasonable Man if you haven't already.
Great. Time Magazine. Guess who else has been on that distinguished list? George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Condoleezza Rice 4 times. Barack Obama 3 times. And Bill Gates - 3 times this century and for all of the 20th century. So let's stick with him. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of millions of dollars the Gates Foundation has granted to help education and break down social injustices? Why not put Bill Gates up for president? (I suppose because he IS big business, right?)
Great. Time Magazine. Guess who else has been on that distinguished list? George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Condoleezza Rice 4 times. Barack Obama 3 times. And Bill Gates - 3 times this century and for all of the 20th century. So let's stick with him. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of millions of dollars the Gates Foundation has granted to help education and break down social injustices? Why not put Bill Gates up for president? (I suppose because he IS big business, right?)
My point was he was on their list and has never even held office and isn't even famous. He's on their list because of his achievements and contributions to towards our society. And i see you decided to not even address the other points...interesting.
And why should Bill Gates be president? What would he bring to the office? What has he done that points to him being a good public servant and full time citizen other than dishing out lots of cash to charities and creating monopolies?
And you never answered my question about these other activists who have contributed so much more to this country than Nader. I'll take it you didn't have anything to back up that statement then.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree with you 100 percent. But that's the reality of the situation. I honestly believe that if Paris Hilton were to run for president she would get more votes than Nader. There are a lot of dumb people in this country and we allow them to vote. I think that's why Barack gets a large number of the educated vote, and I'd be willing to guess that almost all of Nader's supporters are well educated. Like I said it's the reality of the situation. I would love for Kucinich to be the next president, I think he is by far the best candidate. But I will support Obama and I really hope he wins.
And brandon, as long as those of us who are aware of the problem continue to play along, things will never change. If you see something that's wrong, you stand up for what's right and set the example. No one else is ever going to be willing to do something you yourself won't take the leap towards. We all create our reality by the informed decisions and choices we make. I'm going to make sure my choices represent what I stand for, what I know about the situation and what I view as the right direction for us to be taking. If we all started doing that and stopped worrying how many other people are doing it too....the reality of this situation WOULD change.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Great. Time Magazine. Guess who else has been on that distinguished list? George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Condoleezza Rice 4 times. Barack Obama 3 times. And Bill Gates - 3 times this century and for all of the 20th century. So let's stick with him. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of millions of dollars the Gates Foundation has granted to help education and break down social injustices? Why not put Bill Gates up for president? (I suppose because he IS big business, right?)
The best rebuttal you have is to question Time magazine?
It is an influential and respected piece of print material. That's why I find it disappointing when they place monkey man (aka Bush) on the cover poised as a good guy. But at the same time understand the good that can be spread when they recognize an American Hero such as Nader.
BTW - Bill Gates isn't running for president, but if you're so impressed by his philanthropic efforts that you feel it would translate into him being good as the leader of our country, by all means, please feel free to draft him into the race. I'd love to see people debate his financial portfolio on here. :rolleyes:
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
He was named one of the most influential people of the 21st century by Time magazine and inspired a whole rather large group of people to join and rally behind him...known as the Nader's Raiders to fight corrpution and protect people's rights and safety. And he is actually drafted to run for president by people who admire him so much and know him for his leadership and activism. he was being asked to run for president long before he actually did by people who were feeling shut out based on the choices we currently have. I can't think of any activist who has took on big business and brought about change as often as Ralph Nader....not to mention all the non-profit organizations he has started to battle various causes. I'd really be curious to see who you could name that has accomplished more for this country than him.
You should check the the doc An Unreasonable Man if you haven't already.
Wait Nader was featured in Time magazine? Doesn't the fact that he is getting coverage in the flagship magazine of one of the biggest media empires in the world kind of hurt the argument that he doesn't get votes because he can't get coverage?
Wait Nader was featured in Time magazine? Doesn't the fact that he is getting coverage in the flagship magazine of one of the biggest media empires in the world kind of hurt the argument that he doesn't get votes because he can't get coverage?
One special issue magazine cover on the shelves for one month, yeah, I don't get why he didn't instantly become all the rage. :rolleyes:
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
My point was he was on their list and has never even held office and isn't even famous. He's on their list because of his achievements and contributions to towards our society. And i see you decided to not even address the other points...interesting.
And why should Bill Gates be president? What would he bring to the office? What has he done that points to him being a good public servant and full time citizen other than dishing out lots of cash to charities and creating monopolies?
And you never answered my question about these other activists who have contributed so much more to this country than Nader. I'll take it you didn't have anything to back up that statement then.
Ok. My responses to your points. Fair enough:
1. He took on big business. His fights didn't seem to stop any of the scandals around the turn of the century. In fact, I could make a valid argument that the members of the U.S. Congress you so often degrade created an entire industry, giving countless people jobs because of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and have now cut back on as much corporate corruption.
2. Maybe the fact that people push him to run for president explains a lack of enthusiasm, therefore contributing to a lack of motivation to inspire people. Right or wrong, you have to inspire people. I agree with you that Nader has done a lot. I have never disputed that.
3. My remark about Bill Gates was sarcastic. But his money has gone to just as many non-profits (not just charities as you so claim) as Nader has helped. In fact, Bill Gates, in the few years the Gates Foundation has existed, has granted (not donated) over $16 BILLION. What has been the impact of Nader's non-profits that he set up? (I'm honestly asking the question as I do not know.)
4. As for someone who has "accomplished more for our country," I merely said there has got to be someone. I refuse to believe Ralph Nader is the end-all, be-all that you so often claim him to be. First, I only hear (and read on his site) of all his battles with corporate America. Awesome. Go Ralph. But what about the rest of America? What about all the social issues that this country is fighting? I see nothing on his site about social security, the homeless, hunger, etc. And what about international policy? So he wants to reverse Middle East policy. What about the rest of the world? Why isn't all this on his website? So if the presidency were all about fighting corporate corruption, great, I would vote Nader. But it isn't. So who am I to vote for? To me, he seems like another "best of the worst" type candidate.
Second, even if he were to be elected, how would he get any of this "real change" through? He has still got to work with a Democratic and/or Republican congress.
I guess I really just do not believe change starts with the presidency.
And this has evolved into something much more than my original comment of Nader just does not inspire. Sorry for digressing.
The best rebuttal you have is to question Time magazine?
It is an influential and respected piece of print material. That's why I find it disappointing when they place monkey man (aka Bush) on the cover poised as a good guy. But at the same time understand the good that can be spread when they recognize an American Hero such as Nader.
Kind of answered your own question there, didn't you? :rolleyes:
Wait Nader was featured in Time magazine? Doesn't the fact that he is getting coverage in the flagship magazine of one of the biggest media empires in the world kind of hurt the argument that he doesn't get votes because he can't get coverage?
he is either shunned by the corporate media (therefore isn't a viable candidate because no one knows about him) or he is a household name that people can recognize because of his years of accomplishments. it just depends on their argument at the time .
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Wait Nader was featured in Time magazine? Doesn't the fact that he is getting coverage in the flagship magazine of one of the biggest media empires in the world kind of hurt the argument that he doesn't get votes because he can't get coverage?
and another hilarious thing about this corporate media thing is---guess who publishes his books? i only looked at a few quickly, but he gets published by the biggest CORPORATE publishers in the industry:
st. martin's press (macmillan):
is a book publisher headquartered in the iconic Flatiron Building in New York City. Currently, St. Martin's Press is one of the United States' largest publishers, bringing to the public some 700 titles a year under eight imprints, which include St. Martin's Press (mainstream and bestseller books), St. Martin's Griffin (mainstream paperback books, including science fiction and romance), St. Martin's Minotaur (mystery, suspense, and thrillers), Picador (specialty books), Thomas Dunne Books (suspense and mainstream), and Truman Talley Books (business and speciality books).
Macmillan Publishers of Great Britain founded St. Martin's in 1952 and subsequently sold it to Holtzbrinck Publishers, LLC, a group of publishing companies held by Verlagsgruppe George von Holtzbrinck, a family-owned publishing concern based in Stuttgart, Germany, which still owns St. Martin's as well as other U.S. publishers, including Farrar, Straus and Giroux (primarily a publisher of literary fiction), Holt Publishers (literary non-fiction), and Tor-Forge Books (science fiction, fantasy, and thrillers).
Saluted for the breadth of their list, St. Martin's publishes such authors as Dan Brown, Ken Bruen, Augusten Burroughs, Stephen J. Cannell, Jackie Collins, Jennifer Crusie, Janet Evanovich, Julian Fellowes, Joseph Finder, Frederick Forsyth, Joan Hess, Simon Kernick, Robert Ludlum, Gayle Lynds, Michael Palmer, Robin Pilcher, Wilbur Smith, the New York Times crossword puzzle books, James Herriot, Barbara Taylor Bradford, Patrick Quinlan, Brigitte Gabriel, Darryl Wimberley, Amanda Filipacchi, Bruce Stockler, and others.
he is either shunned by the corporate media (therefore isn't a viable candidate because no one knows about him) or he is a household name that people can recognize because of his years of accomplishments. it just depends on their argument at the time .
He should be a household name recognized by his many accomplishments, but is not because people are easily entertained by nonsense news and the media is happy to supply them with it.
Every once in a while the media gives him a two second spotlight, but the people that become well known are sensationalized for extended periods of time. The media and the people are complicit in the crap we're getting served.
So, I'm raising my hand and screaming, "Hey, what about this guy?"
Thread integrity - What does this have to with his portfolio anyway? I think we're off track.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
He should be a household name recognized by his many accomplishments, but is not because people are easily entertained by nonsense news and the media is happy to supply them with it.
Every once in a while the media gives him a two second spotlight, but the people that become well known are sensationalized for extended periods of time. The media and the people are complicit in the crap we're getting served.
So, I'm raising my hand and screaming, "Hey, what about this guy?"
Thread integrity - What does this have to with his portfolio anyway? I think we're off track.
as for your thread integrity, my response (to someone else, not you) has something to do with hypocrisy (ironically).
in regards to the household name claim, i guess that's where you differ from many others, including many of his supporters. i've heard the claim that 'unsafe at any speed' made him a household name. and that was what, 40 years ago?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
he is either shunned by the corporate media (therefore isn't a viable candidate because no one knows about him) or he is a household name that people can recognize because of his years of accomplishments. it just depends on their argument at the time .
Comments
thanks...really was just looking for yes or no
so looking at nader's stock portfolio and campaign contributers i don't see the same company(ies) in both areas...
now....in my view, nader is not beholden to any of the companies in his portfolio....i believe he is doing what we as americans should do....instead of just complaining that, say gas prices are to high, buy stock in the oil companies which will then give you the opportunity to perhaps make a change in how that company runs it's business....not that i'm saying that nader is doing this but i think bringing up this type of info is really a weak argument against nader and his campaign....and if this is important to you well then you might want to take a look at where democrats and republicans get their money....that, to me, seems to be the bigger issue....:)
Is that Nader's fault or people's fault?
Like many have already said...let him into the debates. Imagine if he had all the exposure from the media that mainstreams have. Imagine if he had the kind of money the others get from corporate donors to go on publicity tours that last for years so sell himself from state to state.....it would make all the difference in the world. But he doesn't do that. He's busy fighting the good fight year in and year out. And he doesn't have anywhere close to that kind of money, he has no corporate donors pushing him forward and the media paints him negatively and never discusses his accomplishments objectively the way the 'news' is supposed to. He is the only candidate running that has actually brought change about in this country, fought the odds for US and won and fought for the people's rights and safety BEFORE hos own personal gain....but somehow he is undeserving?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Good points!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He still is not able to inspire. You are inspired by him and that's great. I would love to see him play a more prominent role in the election, too. But that does not mean his inspiration is propogated to everyone. You can blame whomever you wish. If he really had a passion to become the next president, he would make it work. He has passion, as evidenced by his accomplishments, he just needs to reharness it.
He doesnt have to sell himself to corporate donors, he can just invest in them like he has before. Then he can use his profits to run a campaign against these very corporations. Crazy how that works for some people.
Everyone who has any knowledge of politics knows who Nader is and understands what he is about. Yet he still doesn't stir emotion among voters. He has been running for president for 10 years yet he still doesn't muster support. You can blame the media all you want and they do deserve a part of the blame. Especially the right wing spin media. But some blame must also fall on Naders lap for not having the charisma to galvanize an American public that is begging for a new direction.
Which speaks to the public's own downfall of needing celebrity and flare over substance to match their extremely short attention spans. They continue to vote against their own self interest in the face of having a man running who has proven himself to be a public servant and to be devoted to making things better for their lives as citizens in this country AND supports the very issues they poll as agreeing with and wanting to see implemented!
If the American public is serious about wanting a new direction then they have to realize they have to be pro-active and make it happen. They can't just sit back and expect someone else to do it for them. And they can't keep acting surprised and upset that the government they elect is full of shit each time when they were the ones who keep falling for the same crap every year. When it's not an election year, you'll hear almost everyone complaining about the sorry gov't and how corrupt and useless they are....then when it comes time to do something about it....they repeat the same dumb mistake.Doh! It's like getting a bad evaluation at work and then getting a promotion and raise for it!!! There is no sense to be had in this cycle!
The Democrats ran in 06 on ending the war and lead everyone to believe they would get this done. Then they do jack shit but play Republican lite once in office and give Bush/Cheney a free pass. So then their approval rating slipped to lower than Bush's and rightly so. And what do we do?! We say "Hell yeah! Give me some more of that! It's working out just grandly for us so far!"
It's enough to drive a sane person crazy.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Really? Such as?
He was named one of the most influential people of the 21st century by Time magazine and inspired a whole rather large group of people to join and rally behind him...known as the Nader's Raiders to fight corrpution and protect people's rights and safety. And he is actually drafted to run for president by people who admire him so much and know him for his leadership and activism. he was being asked to run for president long before he actually did by people who were feeling shut out based on the choices we currently have. I can't think of any activist who has took on big business and brought about change as often as Ralph Nader....not to mention all the non-profit organizations he has started to battle various causes. I'd really be curious to see who you could name that has accomplished more for this country than him.
You should check the the doc An Unreasonable Man if you haven't already.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yeah, nader's campaign is rolling in the money :rolleyes:
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Really (and sadly), I think this says more about the general public and their priorities of interest.
I overhear a hell of a lot more about American Idol and Dancing with the Stars than I do politics.
When did hard work and results stop counting for something?
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"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Great points, cutback.
Perhaps there's a shade of "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer" somewhere in there.
Admittedly, I do not know much about stocks or what level of shareholder you have to be to have some say in what the company does. But, as a shareholder doesn't he have some say in what the company does? Can somebody who knows this stuff help me out here, please?
And, yeah. If this is all the dirt people can find on Nader, it is my opinion that they seriously grasping at straws.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I agree with you 100 percent. But that's the reality of the situation. I honestly believe that if Paris Hilton were to run for president she would get more votes than Nader. There are a lot of dumb people in this country and we allow them to vote. I think that's why Barack gets a large number of the educated vote, and I'd be willing to guess that almost all of Nader's supporters are well educated. Like I said it's the reality of the situation. I would love for Kucinich to be the next president, I think he is by far the best candidate. But I will support Obama and I really hope he wins.
Great. Time Magazine. Guess who else has been on that distinguished list? George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, and Condoleezza Rice 4 times. Barack Obama 3 times. And Bill Gates - 3 times this century and for all of the 20th century. So let's stick with him. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of millions of dollars the Gates Foundation has granted to help education and break down social injustices? Why not put Bill Gates up for president? (I suppose because he IS big business, right?)
My point was he was on their list and has never even held office and isn't even famous. He's on their list because of his achievements and contributions to towards our society. And i see you decided to not even address the other points...interesting.
And why should Bill Gates be president? What would he bring to the office? What has he done that points to him being a good public servant and full time citizen other than dishing out lots of cash to charities and creating monopolies?
And you never answered my question about these other activists who have contributed so much more to this country than Nader. I'll take it you didn't have anything to back up that statement then.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Oh he's doing a bit better than Paris would fair, I'm sure.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=287709
And brandon, as long as those of us who are aware of the problem continue to play along, things will never change. If you see something that's wrong, you stand up for what's right and set the example. No one else is ever going to be willing to do something you yourself won't take the leap towards. We all create our reality by the informed decisions and choices we make. I'm going to make sure my choices represent what I stand for, what I know about the situation and what I view as the right direction for us to be taking. If we all started doing that and stopped worrying how many other people are doing it too....the reality of this situation WOULD change.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The best rebuttal you have is to question Time magazine?
It is an influential and respected piece of print material. That's why I find it disappointing when they place monkey man (aka Bush) on the cover poised as a good guy. But at the same time understand the good that can be spread when they recognize an American Hero such as Nader.
BTW - Bill Gates isn't running for president, but if you're so impressed by his philanthropic efforts that you feel it would translate into him being good as the leader of our country, by all means, please feel free to draft him into the race. I'd love to see people debate his financial portfolio on here. :rolleyes:
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Wait Nader was featured in Time magazine? Doesn't the fact that he is getting coverage in the flagship magazine of one of the biggest media empires in the world kind of hurt the argument that he doesn't get votes because he can't get coverage?
One special issue magazine cover on the shelves for one month, yeah, I don't get why he didn't instantly become all the rage. :rolleyes:
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Ok. My responses to your points. Fair enough:
1. He took on big business. His fights didn't seem to stop any of the scandals around the turn of the century. In fact, I could make a valid argument that the members of the U.S. Congress you so often degrade created an entire industry, giving countless people jobs because of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act and have now cut back on as much corporate corruption.
2. Maybe the fact that people push him to run for president explains a lack of enthusiasm, therefore contributing to a lack of motivation to inspire people. Right or wrong, you have to inspire people. I agree with you that Nader has done a lot. I have never disputed that.
3. My remark about Bill Gates was sarcastic. But his money has gone to just as many non-profits (not just charities as you so claim) as Nader has helped. In fact, Bill Gates, in the few years the Gates Foundation has existed, has granted (not donated) over $16 BILLION. What has been the impact of Nader's non-profits that he set up? (I'm honestly asking the question as I do not know.)
4. As for someone who has "accomplished more for our country," I merely said there has got to be someone. I refuse to believe Ralph Nader is the end-all, be-all that you so often claim him to be. First, I only hear (and read on his site) of all his battles with corporate America. Awesome. Go Ralph. But what about the rest of America? What about all the social issues that this country is fighting? I see nothing on his site about social security, the homeless, hunger, etc. And what about international policy? So he wants to reverse Middle East policy. What about the rest of the world? Why isn't all this on his website? So if the presidency were all about fighting corporate corruption, great, I would vote Nader. But it isn't. So who am I to vote for? To me, he seems like another "best of the worst" type candidate.
Second, even if he were to be elected, how would he get any of this "real change" through? He has still got to work with a Democratic and/or Republican congress.
I guess I really just do not believe change starts with the presidency.
And this has evolved into something much more than my original comment of Nader just does not inspire. Sorry for digressing.
Kind of answered your own question there, didn't you? :rolleyes:
he is either shunned by the corporate media (therefore isn't a viable candidate because no one knows about him) or he is a household name that people can recognize because of his years of accomplishments. it just depends on their argument at the time
cross the river to the eastside
and another hilarious thing about this corporate media thing is---guess who publishes his books? i only looked at a few quickly, but he gets published by the biggest CORPORATE publishers in the industry:
st. martin's press (macmillan):
is a book publisher headquartered in the iconic Flatiron Building in New York City. Currently, St. Martin's Press is one of the United States' largest publishers, bringing to the public some 700 titles a year under eight imprints, which include St. Martin's Press (mainstream and bestseller books), St. Martin's Griffin (mainstream paperback books, including science fiction and romance), St. Martin's Minotaur (mystery, suspense, and thrillers), Picador (specialty books), Thomas Dunne Books (suspense and mainstream), and Truman Talley Books (business and speciality books).
Macmillan Publishers of Great Britain founded St. Martin's in 1952 and subsequently sold it to Holtzbrinck Publishers, LLC, a group of publishing companies held by Verlagsgruppe George von Holtzbrinck, a family-owned publishing concern based in Stuttgart, Germany, which still owns St. Martin's as well as other U.S. publishers, including Farrar, Straus and Giroux (primarily a publisher of literary fiction), Holt Publishers (literary non-fiction), and Tor-Forge Books (science fiction, fantasy, and thrillers).
Saluted for the breadth of their list, St. Martin's publishes such authors as Dan Brown, Ken Bruen, Augusten Burroughs, Stephen J. Cannell, Jackie Collins, Jennifer Crusie, Janet Evanovich, Julian Fellowes, Joseph Finder, Frederick Forsyth, Joan Hess, Simon Kernick, Robert Ludlum, Gayle Lynds, Michael Palmer, Robin Pilcher, Wilbur Smith, the New York Times crossword puzzle books, James Herriot, Barbara Taylor Bradford, Patrick Quinlan, Brigitte Gabriel, Darryl Wimberley, Amanda Filipacchi, Bruce Stockler, and others.
the other publisher i saw was harper collins. i'm guessing people know that one.
http://www.harpercollins.com/
cross the river to the eastside
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
He should be a household name recognized by his many accomplishments, but is not because people are easily entertained by nonsense news and the media is happy to supply them with it.
Every once in a while the media gives him a two second spotlight, but the people that become well known are sensationalized for extended periods of time. The media and the people are complicit in the crap we're getting served.
So, I'm raising my hand and screaming, "Hey, what about this guy?"
Thread integrity - What does this have to with his portfolio anyway? I think we're off track.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
as for your thread integrity, my response (to someone else, not you) has something to do with hypocrisy (ironically).
in regards to the household name claim, i guess that's where you differ from many others, including many of his supporters. i've heard the claim that 'unsafe at any speed' made him a household name. and that was what, 40 years ago?
cross the river to the eastside
Hehehe. No kidding. Poor Ralph !!