Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Sad to see a group of musicians die off into the sunset like that...
tragic...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If he supported Bush 2 after being so against Bush 1 then hed be more than just a shitty president picker. Both the democtratic and republican parties have sold this country out.
Last month, four-fifths of Pearl Jam touted their own Obama-song, unofficially signaling the band's endorsement of the (delegate) leading Democrat. Unofficially, because Eddie Vedder wasn't involved. Then Ralph Nader—Eddie's favorite former candidate—joined the presidential race. Would the frontman split from his bandmates or maintain political solidarity?
Now we know. Eddie likes Barack Obama.
Evidence: The Body of War soundtrack-curating artist is one of 24 "celebrity judges" (our quotes) to judge the entries of MoveOn.org's "Obama in 30 Seconds" competition and "netroots" (their quotes) campaign. (Did no one at MoveOn see that dumb Cage/Jolie flick about stealing cars?)
Yes, MoveOn wants you, everyday creative types, to help Obama win the presidency by extolling his virtues in a 30-second spot. (Actually, 26 seconds. Four are needed to display a legal disclaimer.) And a bunch of exceptional, famous creative types, ultimately, will pick their favorite one.
MoveOn.org has a message for all filmmakers, writers, directors, actors, editors, composers, graphic artists, and animators: Whether you're a total amateur or a total pro, now is the time to use your creativity to help Barack Obama win....We're counting on you to make amazing ads in the next three weeks. Then, MoveOn members and the public will rate the ads, and a panel of top artists, netroots heroes, and filmmaking professionals will pick the winner from among top ads. We'll air the winning ad nationally, and the winner will receive a gift certificate for $20,000 in video equipment.
Best part about the contest? This FAQ entry:
Q: Do you have any information on Barack Obama I could use in my ad?
A: Yes. Check out the About Barack Obama section of our site for an overview of Barack Obama's qualities, positions, and values.
In case you don't know what he stands for but have decided to vote for him solely based on his oratory skills. (Not that there's anyone like that out there.)
Anyway, if you've always wanted to pitch your home-movie-making skills and your love for hope to a group of luminaries as varied and diverse as Affleck & Damon, Steve Buscemi, John Legend, Julia Stiles, Russell Simmons, Oliver Stone, and Eddie Vedder, now's your chance.
We'd be surprised if Vedder's support for Obama didn't become more explicit when he hits the road next month. He's never been one to shy away from politics—his passion for democracy, prior devotion to Nader, or disdain for George Bush. We just hope he doesn't bring Jesse Jackson along with him. (Yes, he's a "30 Seconds" judge, too.)
Last month, four-fifths of Pearl Jam touted their own Obama-song, unofficially signaling the band's endorsement of the (delegate) leading Democrat. Unofficially, because Eddie Vedder wasn't involved. Then Ralph Nader—Eddie's favorite former candidate—joined the presidential race. Would the frontman split from his bandmates or maintain political solidarity?
Now we know. Eddie likes Barack Obama.
Evidence: The Body of War soundtrack-curating artist is one of 24 "celebrity judges" (our quotes) to judge the entries of MoveOn.org's "Obama in 30 Seconds" competition and "netroots" (their quotes) campaign. (Did no one at MoveOn see that dumb Cage/Jolie flick about stealing cars?)
Yes, MoveOn wants you, everyday creative types, to help Obama win the presidency by extolling his virtues in a 30-second spot. (Actually, 26 seconds. Four are needed to display a legal disclaimer.) And a bunch of exceptional, famous creative types, ultimately, will pick their favorite one.
MoveOn.org has a message for all filmmakers, writers, directors, actors, editors, composers, graphic artists, and animators: Whether you're a total amateur or a total pro, now is the time to use your creativity to help Barack Obama win....We're counting on you to make amazing ads in the next three weeks. Then, MoveOn members and the public will rate the ads, and a panel of top artists, netroots heroes, and filmmaking professionals will pick the winner from among top ads. We'll air the winning ad nationally, and the winner will receive a gift certificate for $20,000 in video equipment.
Best part about the contest? This FAQ entry:
Q: Do you have any information on Barack Obama I could use in my ad?
A: Yes. Check out the About Barack Obama section of our site for an overview of Barack Obama's qualities, positions, and values.
In case you don't know what he stands for but have decided to vote for him solely based on his oratory skills. (Not that there's anyone like that out there.)
Anyway, if you've always wanted to pitch your home-movie-making skills and your love for hope to a group of luminaries as varied and diverse as Affleck & Damon, Steve Buscemi, John Legend, Julia Stiles, Russell Simmons, Oliver Stone, and Eddie Vedder, now's your chance.
We'd be surprised if Vedder's support for Obama didn't become more explicit when he hits the road next month. He's never been one to shy away from politics—his passion for democracy, prior devotion to Nader, or disdain for George Bush. We just hope he doesn't bring Jesse Jackson along with him. (Yes, he's a "30 Seconds" judge, too.)
This whole thing makes me more than a little queasy ... Apart from that song, that is. That song is full-on dry heaves material.
This whole thing makes me more than a little queasy ... Apart from that song, that is. That song is full-on dry heaves material.
I don't get all the confusion. I mean, if you are in extreme distress and have to choose between starving to death or eating human flesh, as bad as it sounds you're going to choose to survive.
Nader has about as good a chance as winning the Presidential election as I do. I'm not running btw, in case you wanted to vote for me.
Why is it so suprising that EV would show support for Obama? Should he just support Nader in a futile effort? Or should he make an attempt to choose the lesser of 3 evils hoping to gain support for someone who, Democrat or not, is in support of much needed change?
I don't get all the confusion. I mean, if you are in extreme distress and have to choose between starving to death or eating human flesh, as bad as it sounds you're going to choose to survive.
Nader has about as good a chance as winning the Presidential election as I do. I'm not running btw, in case you wanted to vote for me.
Why is it so suprising that EV would show support for Obama? Should he just support Nader in a futile effort? Or should he make an attempt to choose the lesser of 3 evils hoping to gain support for someone who, Democrat or not, is in support of much needed change?
You all tell me.
third party voting is not futile. If not now then when?
I don't get all the confusion. I mean, if you are in extreme distress and have to choose between starving to death or eating human flesh, as bad as it sounds you're going to choose to survive.
Nader has about as good a chance as winning the Presidential election as I do. I'm not running btw, in case you wanted to vote for me.
Why is it so suprising that EV would show support for Obama? Should he just support Nader in a futile effort? Or should he make an attempt to choose the lesser of 3 evils hoping to gain support for someone who, Democrat or not, is in support of much needed change?
You all tell me.
If people dpon't stop supporting corporate owned candidates nothing is ever gonna change. I'm going to vote based on principle, for the person who I view best represents the direction I'd like to see this country headed. That right is all of ours to use if we chose to. I will not vote for someone I don't care for just because the masses and the media say that's all we can hope for. I will not vote out of fear. No one is stopping everyone else in the country from voting for a third party. But the media is intent on shoving the idea down our throats that the Reps and the Dems are the only choice that's viable. Why do they get to choose? Why can the guy with the best ideas be the most viable? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? The only time Nader gets coverage is when he's is bombarded with remarks about 'wasted votes', 'spoiler' and things like that before anyone has even taken a poll to know what the public thinks. They deliberately discourage people from voting for third parties and it's bullshit. People should always vote their heart and stop letting the media play them like a fiddle. And he's not even allowed in the national debates so he can have his ideas be heard and weighed against the other two and have millions actually hear his ideas. If I had a dime for everytime i heard someone say how they'd love to vote for Nader but Bush/McCain have to be defeated and Nader just can't win I'd be rich and I'd donate it all to the Nader campaign. The only reason Nader can't win is because people or either too afraid to back him or they haven't heard much about him. His ideas are strong. People that say 'Nader has great plans, I agree with him BUT voting for him is futile' are the very reason he doesn't win. Those people should grow some backbone and stop settling for the shitty choices that have been 'given' to you. People are going to get exactly what they expect to get out of the gov't...so why not raise those expectations a bit?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If people dpon't stop supporting corporate owned candidates nothing is ever gonna change. I'm going to vote based on principle, for the person who I view best represents the direction I'd like to see this country headed. That right is all of ours to use if we chose to. I will not vote for someone I don't care for just because the masses and the media say that's all we can hope for. I will not vote out of fear. No one is stopping everyone else in the country from voting for a third party. But the media is intent on shoving the idea down our throats that the Reps and the Dems are the only choice that's viable. Why do they get to choose? Why can the guy with the best ideas be the most viable? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? The only time Nader gets coverage is when he's is bombarded with remarks about 'wasted votes', 'spoiler' and things like that before anyone has even taken a poll to know what the public thinks. They deliberately discourage people from voting for third parties and it's bullshit. People should always vote their heart and stop letting the media play them like a fiddle. And he's not even allowed in the national debates so he can have his ideas be heard and weighed against the other two and have millions actually hear his ideas. If I had a dime for everytime i heard someone say how they'd love to vote for Nader but Bush/McCain have to be defeated and Nader just can't win I'd be rich and I'd donate it all to the Nader campaign. The only reason Nader can't win is because people or either too afraid to back him or they haven't heard much about him. His ideas are strong. People that say 'Nader has great plans, I agree with him BUT voting for him is futile' are the very reason he doesn't win. Those people should grow some backbone and stop settling for the shitty choices that have been 'given' to you. People are going to get exactly what they expect to get out of the gov't...so why not raise those expectations a bit?
Well said. I'M not voting against nader out of fear, I am voting for the candidate that best represents my views...and that happnes to be Nader, so fuckoff if you think I'm wasting my vote.
If people dpon't stop supporting corporate owned candidates nothing is ever gonna change. I'm going to vote based on principle, for the person who I view best represents the direction I'd like to see this country headed. That right is all of ours to use if we chose to. I will not vote for someone I don't care for just because the masses and the media say that's all we can hope for. I will not vote out of fear. No one is stopping everyone else in the country from voting for a third party. But the media is intent on shoving the idea down our throats that the Reps and the Dems are the only choice that's viable. Why do they get to choose? Why can the guy with the best ideas be the most viable? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? The only time Nader gets coverage is when he's is bombarded with remarks about 'wasted votes', 'spoiler' and things like that before anyone has even taken a poll to know what the public thinks. They deliberately discourage people from voting for third parties and it's bullshit. People should always vote their heart and stop letting the media play them like a fiddle. And he's not even allowed in the national debates so he can have his ideas be heard and weighed against the other two and have millions actually hear his ideas. If I had a dime for everytime i heard someone say how they'd love to vote for Nader but Bush/McCain have to be defeated and Nader just can't win I'd be rich and I'd donate it all to the Nader campaign. The only reason Nader can't win is because people or either too afraid to back him or they haven't heard much about him. His ideas are strong. People that say 'Nader has great plans, I agree with him BUT voting for him is futile' are the very reason he doesn't win. Those people should grow some backbone and stop settling for the shitty choices that have been 'given' to you. People are going to get exactly what they expect to get out of the gov't...so why not raise those expectations a bit?
I admire your ideals but he just threw his hat in the ring a month ago, wtf do you expect is going to happen?
All I am shedding light on is why the band stands where they do currently in the political arena and asking why it is so difficult to understand. You are failing to realize what PJ does realize...do you think they don't still support Nader?
Go ahead and use me as your scapegoat for not allowing fear to dictate my vote while you waste yours.
*edit* it was not my intention to have the word not precede allowing fear. It has caused some confusion, my apologies.
I admire your ideals but he just threw his hat in the ring a month ago, wtf do you expect is going to happen?
All I am shedding light on is why the band stands where they do currently in the political arena and asking why it is so difficult to understand. You are failing to realize what PJ does realize...do you think they don't still support Nader?
Go ahead and use me as your scapegoat for not allowing fear to dictate my vote while you waste yours.
Voting out of fear means you're scared of what the other party wilil do while in office. It means your are afraid of what the opposing party will implement while in power...IT MEANS YOU ARE AFRAID. I choose to think for myself, to vote for Nader, to vote against the corporate run system, to vote for freedom. So fuck off with your fear mongering
Well said. I'M not voting against nader out of fear, I am voting for the candidate that best represents my views...and that happnes to be Nader, so fuckoff if you think I'm wasting my vote.
I'm willing to bet you the national deficit that you wouldn't say that to my face internet tough guy.
Why are you even on this site Commy? Because I find you to be a bit hostile for someone who supposedly embodies the peaceful nature that this band and it's music represents.
Voting out of fear means you're scared of what the other party wilil do while in office. It means your are afraid of what the opposing party will implement while in power...IT MEANS YOU ARE AFRAID.
And the band isn't absolute. I make up my own mind.
This is a typical paraphrase of someone who just wants to be heard but refuses to listen. I never suggested anyone follow the lead of the band - I'm simply trying to explain the logic of their decision making...how many times do I have to say this before it gets through your hostile little head?
In this case it doesn't mean I'm afraid, it simply means that I don't lack the common sense that you do.
Voting out of fear means you're scared of what the other party wilil do while in office. It means your are afraid of what the opposing party will implement while in power...IT MEANS YOU ARE AFRAID. I choose to think for myself, to vote for Nader, to vote against the corporate run system, to vote for freedom. So fuck off with your fear mongering
Don't bother letting us know of your edit...my post caught your initial post.
You sure are tough on the keyboard.
*edit* <---this is how it's done
Why again is it that I am a fear mongerer? Again, is it because I am trying to explain somone else's actions and sharing in their logic?
This is a typical paraphrase of someone who just wants to be heard but refuses to listen. I never suggested anyone follow the lead of the band - I'm simply trying to explain the logic of their decision making...how many times do I have to say this before it gets through your hostile little head?
In this case it doesn't mean I'm afraid, it simply means that I don't lack the common sense that you do.
nothing personal here.
Why wouldnt' you vote for a third party candidate? You've seen what Clinton has done, you've seen what Bush has done, its seems painfully obvious that a third party candidate is our only option at this point. WE can choose violence or a path that does not bring repercussions. But it is our choice.
I admire your ideals but he just threw his hat in the ring a month ago, wtf do you expect is going to happen?
How long does it take to get your ideas out there and let people decide? When would have been a good time for him to step in? Do you think third parties are going to have the money and resources to campaign for over two years like the two corporate funded parties???
All I am shedding light on is why the band stands where they do currently in the political arena and asking why it is so difficult to understand. You are failing to realize what PJ does realize...do you think they don't still support Nader?
Who said anywhere in this thread that they didn't understand why PJ was supporting Obama??? I don't agree with their choice but it's theirs to make. I know their reasoning probably falls along the same lines as the posts I read on this board. I don't know if they support Nader or not? Next time they call, I'll try to remember and ask for you.
Go ahead and use me as your scapegoat for not allowing fear to dictate my vote while you waste yours.
*edit* it was not my intention to have the word not precede allowing fear. It has caused some confusion, my apologies.
How is my vote wasted? I only have my voice and the only way to waste it would be to not use it and vote for someone I don't care to see in office. It's not all about picking a winner. Are you saying you would vote for whoever the probable winner is no matter who? That is simply ridiculous. I'll vote for who I want to win based who I like the best and not based on fear of a republican getting in. That's the only way I DON'T waste my vote... because when I vote this year, my voice and all the things I believe in will truely be spoken for when it is cast.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Why wouldnt' you vote for a third party candidate? You've seen what Clinton has done, you've seen what Bush has done, its seems painfully obvious that a third party candidate is our only option at this point. WE can choose violence or a path that does not bring repercussions. But it is our choice.
Sorry for getting back in your face but I tend to take it a little personally when someone tells me to fuck off.
I agree with you up to the point where you suggest that myself and others are succumbing to fear rather than logic. The independent party has not exactly helped itself by entering the race in the 11th hour. The blame for their lack of exposure to the masses can't lie soley at the hands of the media. Even non-network, pro-change programs such as The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Real Time with Bill Maher haven't even so much as made mention of the independent party. There was a time when people actually knew Nader was running because he actually attended some primaries. I'm just as disappointed as the next guy but he's just not a factor this election - period.
Sorry for getting back in your face but I tend to take it a little personally when someone tells me to fuck off.
I agree with you up to the point where you suggest that myself and others are succumbing to fear rather than logic. The independent party has not exactly helped itself by entering the race in the 11th hour. The blame for their lack of exposure to the masses can't lie soley at the hands of the media. Even non-network, pro-change programs such as The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Real Time with Bill Maher haven't even so much as made mention of the independent party. There was a time when people actually knew Nader was running because he actually attended some primaries. I'm just as disappointed as the next guy but he's just not a factor this election - period.
Last I checked, there were still just under EIGHT months until the election. Summer is part of that - a time with tons of community festivities, which are a great spot for grass roots movements like a third party candidate's. By then, I would imagine that the other two parties will feel locked in and slightly relaxed.
In the Democrats case their attention may be swayed from the people and to the Superdelegates this summer.
There is plenty of time to get the third party name out.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
How long does it take to get your ideas out there and let people decide? When would have been a good time for him to step in? Do you think third parties are going to have the money and resources to campaign for over two years like the two corporate funded parties???
I am completely aware of funding issues. Did someone ban Nader from attending primary debates this time around that I'm not aware of? Does it cost money simply to show up and debate?
Who said anywhere in this thread that they didn't understand why PJ was supporting Obama??? I don't agree with their choice but it's theirs to make. I know their reasoning probably falls along the same lines as the posts I read on this board. I don't know if they support Nader or not? Next time they call, I'll try to remember and ask for you.
Did you read this thread?
You're probably right...they don't support Ralph anymore, they changed their minds about everything he stands for because there is a Democratic candidate which does a much better job of representing their ideals. Why must you attempt to seek refuge through sarcasm?
How is my vote wasted? I only have my voice and the only way to waste it would be to not use it and vote for someone I don't care to see in office. It's not all about picking a winner. Are you saying you would vote for whoever the probable winner is no matter who? That is simply ridiculous.
It is ridiculous. What would be the point of voting for the most probable winner? It's voting to support the most viable candidate that most closely represents your ideals that is wise IMO.
I admire your ideals as I said to another Nader voter - we just differ in opinion as to what is the best way to achieve change. I would like to at least get closer rather than further from where this country needs to be, while you feel it is more important to make a stance.
Last I checked, there were still just under EIGHT months until the election. Summer is part of that - a time with tons of community festivities, which are a great spot for grass roots movements like a third party candidate's. By then, I would imagine that the other two parties will feel locked in and slightly relaxed.
In the Democrats case their attention may be swayed from the people and to the Superdelegates this summer.
There is plenty of time to get the third party name out.
Great. If there is even a shed of light at the end of the tunnel I will have every opportunity to hop back on the bandwagon.
I am completely aware of funding issues. Did someone ban Nader from attending primary debates this time around that I'm not aware of? Does it cost money simply to show up and debate?Did you read this thread?
And then there's the DNC keeping Nader off the ballot all over the states. Nader has to go around working to get his name put on the ballot because the fuckers in the DNC don't want you hearing him debate or even having him as an option on the ballot. Bullshit! The system is broke and you're content with playing a rigged game.
I don't know who said they couldn't understand how PJ could support Obama? I could have missed and if it's there then point it out. I don't want to read the whole thing over again.
You're probably right...they don't support Ralph anymore, they changed their minds about everything he stands for because there is a Democratic candidate which does a much better job of representing their ideals. Why must you attempt to seek refuge through sarcasm?
I don't need refuge. You think Obama represents their ideals more than Nader...I'll have to disagree on that one. Obama is backed by corporate interests including the nuclear power industry and the contributors from the banking/financial sector. That doesn't sound like the PJ I know.
It is ridiculous. What would be the point of voting for the most probable winner? It's voting to support the most viable candidate that most closely represents your ideals that is wise IMO.
Neither two parties picks this time represent my ideals. Haven't I made that clear? And I won't be a part of supporting their corruption while our democracy continues to erode and power continues to shift more and more from the people to the hands of corporate interests. Those guys have been bought and DO NOT represent me.
I admire your ideals as I said to another Nader voter - we just differ in opinion as to what is the best way to achieve change. I would like to at least get closer rather than further from where this country needs to be, while you feel it is more important to make a stance.
That's what people said with Clinton, too. He wasn't too much to be proud about, guys. I'm passing on their bullshit this go round, thanks just the same, though.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
this is better pro obama stone then that other shite...
So that song PJ Lukin posted is real?
Oh my....
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
he's telling the truth, abook. i saw it, too. GAWDAWFUL.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Sad to see a group of musicians die off into the sunset like that...
tragic...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Okay, okay you guys. I believe you. It just sounded so awful...I thought it was a joke.
Now I kinda feel bad for thinking that because they were really trying.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
whoa, ed didnt have anything to do with that shit...
i think it was supposed to be hokey... and instead it came across as a sincere attempt that really sucked large banana leaves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkh4qMdWhSQ
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5jFTS4u5Jw&feature=related
almost as if they are one in the same???
interesting take
Last month, four-fifths of Pearl Jam touted their own Obama-song, unofficially signaling the band's endorsement of the (delegate) leading Democrat. Unofficially, because Eddie Vedder wasn't involved. Then Ralph Nader—Eddie's favorite former candidate—joined the presidential race. Would the frontman split from his bandmates or maintain political solidarity?
Now we know. Eddie likes Barack Obama.
Evidence: The Body of War soundtrack-curating artist is one of 24 "celebrity judges" (our quotes) to judge the entries of MoveOn.org's "Obama in 30 Seconds" competition and "netroots" (their quotes) campaign. (Did no one at MoveOn see that dumb Cage/Jolie flick about stealing cars?)
Yes, MoveOn wants you, everyday creative types, to help Obama win the presidency by extolling his virtues in a 30-second spot. (Actually, 26 seconds. Four are needed to display a legal disclaimer.) And a bunch of exceptional, famous creative types, ultimately, will pick their favorite one.
MoveOn.org has a message for all filmmakers, writers, directors, actors, editors, composers, graphic artists, and animators: Whether you're a total amateur or a total pro, now is the time to use your creativity to help Barack Obama win....We're counting on you to make amazing ads in the next three weeks. Then, MoveOn members and the public will rate the ads, and a panel of top artists, netroots heroes, and filmmaking professionals will pick the winner from among top ads. We'll air the winning ad nationally, and the winner will receive a gift certificate for $20,000 in video equipment.
Best part about the contest? This FAQ entry:
Q: Do you have any information on Barack Obama I could use in my ad?
A: Yes. Check out the About Barack Obama section of our site for an overview of Barack Obama's qualities, positions, and values.
In case you don't know what he stands for but have decided to vote for him solely based on his oratory skills. (Not that there's anyone like that out there.)
Anyway, if you've always wanted to pitch your home-movie-making skills and your love for hope to a group of luminaries as varied and diverse as Affleck & Damon, Steve Buscemi, John Legend, Julia Stiles, Russell Simmons, Oliver Stone, and Eddie Vedder, now's your chance.
We'd be surprised if Vedder's support for Obama didn't become more explicit when he hits the road next month. He's never been one to shy away from politics—his passion for democracy, prior devotion to Nader, or disdain for George Bush. We just hope he doesn't bring Jesse Jackson along with him. (Yes, he's a "30 Seconds" judge, too.)
This whole thing makes me more than a little queasy ... Apart from that song, that is. That song is full-on dry heaves material.
I don't get all the confusion. I mean, if you are in extreme distress and have to choose between starving to death or eating human flesh, as bad as it sounds you're going to choose to survive.
Nader has about as good a chance as winning the Presidential election as I do. I'm not running btw, in case you wanted to vote for me.
Why is it so suprising that EV would show support for Obama? Should he just support Nader in a futile effort? Or should he make an attempt to choose the lesser of 3 evils hoping to gain support for someone who, Democrat or not, is in support of much needed change?
You all tell me.
third party voting is not futile. If not now then when?
If people dpon't stop supporting corporate owned candidates nothing is ever gonna change. I'm going to vote based on principle, for the person who I view best represents the direction I'd like to see this country headed. That right is all of ours to use if we chose to. I will not vote for someone I don't care for just because the masses and the media say that's all we can hope for. I will not vote out of fear. No one is stopping everyone else in the country from voting for a third party. But the media is intent on shoving the idea down our throats that the Reps and the Dems are the only choice that's viable. Why do they get to choose? Why can the guy with the best ideas be the most viable? Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? The only time Nader gets coverage is when he's is bombarded with remarks about 'wasted votes', 'spoiler' and things like that before anyone has even taken a poll to know what the public thinks. They deliberately discourage people from voting for third parties and it's bullshit. People should always vote their heart and stop letting the media play them like a fiddle. And he's not even allowed in the national debates so he can have his ideas be heard and weighed against the other two and have millions actually hear his ideas. If I had a dime for everytime i heard someone say how they'd love to vote for Nader but Bush/McCain have to be defeated and Nader just can't win I'd be rich and I'd donate it all to the Nader campaign. The only reason Nader can't win is because people or either too afraid to back him or they haven't heard much about him. His ideas are strong. People that say 'Nader has great plans, I agree with him BUT voting for him is futile' are the very reason he doesn't win. Those people should grow some backbone and stop settling for the shitty choices that have been 'given' to you. People are going to get exactly what they expect to get out of the gov't...so why not raise those expectations a bit?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well said. I'M not voting against nader out of fear, I am voting for the candidate that best represents my views...and that happnes to be Nader, so fuckoff if you think I'm wasting my vote.
I admire your ideals but he just threw his hat in the ring a month ago, wtf do you expect is going to happen?
All I am shedding light on is why the band stands where they do currently in the political arena and asking why it is so difficult to understand. You are failing to realize what PJ does realize...do you think they don't still support Nader?
Go ahead and use me as your scapegoat for not allowing fear to dictate my vote while you waste yours.
*edit* it was not my intention to have the word not precede allowing fear. It has caused some confusion, my apologies.
I'm willing to bet you the national deficit that you wouldn't say that to my face internet tough guy.
Why are you even on this site Commy? Because I find you to be a bit hostile for someone who supposedly embodies the peaceful nature that this band and it's music represents.
This is a typical paraphrase of someone who just wants to be heard but refuses to listen. I never suggested anyone follow the lead of the band - I'm simply trying to explain the logic of their decision making...how many times do I have to say this before it gets through your hostile little head?
In this case it doesn't mean I'm afraid, it simply means that I don't lack the common sense that you do.
Don't bother letting us know of your edit...my post caught your initial post.
You sure are tough on the keyboard.
*edit* <---this is how it's done
Why again is it that I am a fear mongerer? Again, is it because I am trying to explain somone else's actions and sharing in their logic?
nothing personal here.
Why wouldnt' you vote for a third party candidate? You've seen what Clinton has done, you've seen what Bush has done, its seems painfully obvious that a third party candidate is our only option at this point. WE can choose violence or a path that does not bring repercussions. But it is our choice.
How long does it take to get your ideas out there and let people decide? When would have been a good time for him to step in? Do you think third parties are going to have the money and resources to campaign for over two years like the two corporate funded parties???
Who said anywhere in this thread that they didn't understand why PJ was supporting Obama??? I don't agree with their choice but it's theirs to make. I know their reasoning probably falls along the same lines as the posts I read on this board. I don't know if they support Nader or not? Next time they call, I'll try to remember and ask for you.
How is my vote wasted? I only have my voice and the only way to waste it would be to not use it and vote for someone I don't care to see in office. It's not all about picking a winner. Are you saying you would vote for whoever the probable winner is no matter who? That is simply ridiculous. I'll vote for who I want to win based who I like the best and not based on fear of a republican getting in. That's the only way I DON'T waste my vote... because when I vote this year, my voice and all the things I believe in will truely be spoken for when it is cast.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Sorry for getting back in your face but I tend to take it a little personally when someone tells me to fuck off.
I agree with you up to the point where you suggest that myself and others are succumbing to fear rather than logic. The independent party has not exactly helped itself by entering the race in the 11th hour. The blame for their lack of exposure to the masses can't lie soley at the hands of the media. Even non-network, pro-change programs such as The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Real Time with Bill Maher haven't even so much as made mention of the independent party. There was a time when people actually knew Nader was running because he actually attended some primaries. I'm just as disappointed as the next guy but he's just not a factor this election - period.
Last I checked, there were still just under EIGHT months until the election. Summer is part of that - a time with tons of community festivities, which are a great spot for grass roots movements like a third party candidate's. By then, I would imagine that the other two parties will feel locked in and slightly relaxed.
In the Democrats case their attention may be swayed from the people and to the Superdelegates this summer.
There is plenty of time to get the third party name out.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
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Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
You're probably right...they don't support Ralph anymore, they changed their minds about everything he stands for because there is a Democratic candidate which does a much better job of representing their ideals. Why must you attempt to seek refuge through sarcasm?
It is ridiculous. What would be the point of voting for the most probable winner? It's voting to support the most viable candidate that most closely represents your ideals that is wise IMO.
I admire your ideals as I said to another Nader voter - we just differ in opinion as to what is the best way to achieve change. I would like to at least get closer rather than further from where this country needs to be, while you feel it is more important to make a stance.
Great. If there is even a shed of light at the end of the tunnel I will have every opportunity to hop back on the bandwagon.
I admire your optimism.
They have kept Nader out of the debates threatening to use police force and arrest him if needed:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6VRd3YzOXpI
They've did the same to Dennis Kucinich...they don't want media coverage going to people who are actually speaking out against corporate corruption
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i2J1rfGyZqY
And then there's the DNC keeping Nader off the ballot all over the states. Nader has to go around working to get his name put on the ballot because the fuckers in the DNC don't want you hearing him debate or even having him as an option on the ballot. Bullshit! The system is broke and you're content with playing a rigged game.
http://www.counterpunch.org/murphy06282005.html
I don't know who said they couldn't understand how PJ could support Obama? I could have missed and if it's there then point it out. I don't want to read the whole thing over again.
I don't need refuge. You think Obama represents their ideals more than Nader...I'll have to disagree on that one. Obama is backed by corporate interests including the nuclear power industry and the contributors from the banking/financial sector. That doesn't sound like the PJ I know.
Neither two parties picks this time represent my ideals. Haven't I made that clear? And I won't be a part of supporting their corruption while our democracy continues to erode and power continues to shift more and more from the people to the hands of corporate interests. Those guys have been bought and DO NOT represent me.
That's what people said with Clinton, too. He wasn't too much to be proud about, guys. I'm passing on their bullshit this go round, thanks just the same, though.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Light spreads from reflection. So it's all up each person whether or not they choose to help spread the light by reflecting it themselves.
The opportunity is always there.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde