discrimination

onelongsong

how many of you have been discriminated against because you are not bi-lingual? i know of several cases but i'm wondering how wide spread this is.

prytocorduroy

I haven't been discriminated against, but here's my view on linguistics:

*If you LIVE in a country, SPEAK that country's language(s).
*Visiting is different, but a GOOD effort to speak the country's language(s) should be made (applies to Americans heavily).

mpg82

It's America so speak whatever fucking language you want to speak. But out of courteousy, speak quietly please. I've never been discriminated because I don't speak any other language.

world

I was discriminated because I was black on the inside.

decides2dream

onelongsong wrote:

how many of you have been discriminated against because you are not bi-lingual? i know of several cases but i'm wondering how wide spread this is.

i cannot honestly answer this question w/o knowing in what sense do you mean 'discriminated'...? is this in reference to jobs? certain jobs require one to be bilingual, it is part and parcel of the job description, like requiring a graduate degree, X years of related experience, etc. i mean, it would be like applying for a job as an interpreter, not being able to speak both languages, and then saying you were discriminated against. if it's listed as a requirement, it's not discriminatory.

i really can't think of any other instance where one might be discriminated against for not being bi-lingual, so could you please elaborate?

denverfan

Here's my take, and your point is well taken...I forced myself to learn spanish; living here in Denver with one of the country's highest hispanic populations. In doing so, my business exploded, experienced huge amounts of growth...Take a look at my post created about Clinton praising Bush...This country is already over-run with illegals, getting worse by the day..better learn your espanol!

thankyougrandma

denverfan wrote:

Here's my take, and your point is well taken...I forced myself to learn spanish; living here in Denver with one of the country's highest hispanic populations. In doing so, my business exploded, experienced huge amounts of growth...Take a look at my post created about Clinton praising Bush...This country is already over-run with illegals, getting worse by the day..better learn your espanol!

why is it going worse? By accepting to open to the Mexican culture americans will win a lot in the end, not just financially.

surferdude

thankyougrandma wrote:

why is it going worse? By accepting to open to the Mexican culture americans will win a lot in the end, not just financially.

This is very rich coming from a person in Quebec, where draconian language laws are still in affect. WHen this wasn't the course of action where you live what would ever make you suggest that another area do it. Unless of course you are also implying that the language laws in Quebec are wrong, as was the course of actions taken by the Quebec government and nation.

thankyougrandma

surferdude wrote:

This is very rich coming from a person in Quebec, where draconian language laws are still in affect. WHen this wasn't the course of action where you live what would ever make you suggest that another area do it. Unless of course you are also implying that the language laws in Quebec are wrong, as was the course of actions taken by the Quebec government and nation.

Curse of actions? Your fun to bash Quebec once again bring you to mixed things up.

You call me out, no problem, Yes i think the Quebec language law about signs is wrong and should be corrected. Yes i think the part about sending immigrant kids to french school is damn great.

You'll have to explain to me how it is related to what i just said about mexicans culture and the USA though. I said that the mexican culture can bring a lot to the USA, if you ABSOLUTLY want to bring it back to Québec, i'd say it would be like a canadian learning french to know more about the Québec culture, then i assume you'd also be one who'd considered this actions as being "getting worse".

Btw, wake up the 80's are over, i'm here, speaking english even if i'm french... tsss tsss....

denverfan

thankyougrandma wrote:

why is it going worse? By accepting to open to the Mexican culture americans will win a lot in the end, not just financially.

I may have come across wrong...I have accepted the mexican culture as becomming pretty much mainstream, as populations grow (documented or not). I beleive that when realized and embraced by americans, we all come ahead in the end. But, locally we're so far from this point it not even funny. By getting worse I meant mexican/hispanic cultures growing while americans choosing to not accept or embrace this fact.

You hear all the time while bumping around from most everyone "we're in America, speak engish etc."

*Boy

surferdude wrote:

This is very rich coming from a person in Quebec, where draconian language laws are still in affect. WHen this wasn't the course of action where you live what would ever make you suggest that another area do it. Unless of course you are also implying that the language laws in Quebec are wrong, as was the course of actions taken by the Quebec government and nation.

that's actually pretty poor since once again the link speak spanish must be mexican was made.

decides2dream

thankyougrandma wrote:

why is it going worse? By accepting to open to the Mexican culture americans will win a lot in the end, not just financially.

i don't think that was implied...he said we are overrun with illegals, getting worse day by day...which to me implies the illegal immagration is getting worse, that's all. i am not even weighing in with an opinion on that, just sayin'. so i think at worst, poor word cvhoice on his/her part....was merely illustrating the 'whys' to learning a new language, and saying it's a good thing.

whether one believes all should speak english in an english-speaking country or not really doesn't matter. learning a new language is difficult, so even if one learns, most do far better communicating in their native tongue. so then, if you live in an area with a high population of spanish speakers, you want to communicate well, want their business, etc....it is in your own best interest to speak spanish. besides, spanish is the official second-language of the US, thus why even in your passport it's english/spanish...so it's not going away.

i think it's in everyone's best interest to speak the language of the majority wherever you may live. that said, it ain't easy for many of us to do....so if one can manage w/o it's their call to make. either way, i have never heard of anyone being discriminated against for not being bilingual.

*Boy

i do feel like me not speaking spanish and living in Miami has given me a much harder time to find a job.

i do believe though that when you speak a second or more than 2 languages and use those for your job you should get paid more that whomever only speaks one language. But this is only when you are required to speak a second language at the job.

even flow?

onelongsong wrote:

how many of you have been discriminated against because you are not bi-lingual? i know of several cases but i'm wondering how wide spread this is.

For the last two and a half weeks I have gotten to hear the two ladies across the way from me speak in Sri Lankan (one of the forms) all day long. I guess because I was born in Canada and only got to learn English and French, that, yeah, I feel discriminated against in my home country.

denverfan

*Boy wrote:

i do feel like me not speaking spanish and living in Miami has given me a much harder time to find a job.

i do believe though that when you speak a second or more than 2 languages and use those for your job you should get paid more that whomever only speaks one language. But this is only when you are required to speak a second language at the job.

Being bi-lingual gives you a huge step up in the game...I suggest taking an immersion course for whatever language you feel need to know. I was speaking pretty fluent at the end of a weeks time (slang aside), and paid maybe a grand. Moreover, whenever the world cup is on, you can flip over to Telemundo which provided way better covereage than the networks here in the US; Marcello Balboa, Lalas, MiaChastaHamm providing commentary on the worlds greatest players??? Thats like having Ryan Leaf, Rex Grossman critiqe John Elway, christ that pissed me off but better left for another thread.

onelongsong

let's really look at this. in america; you cannot discriminate against anyone who does not speak english. here in arizona i've been in many businesses where the employees don't speak english at all. i've called customer service related businesses and had to hang up and call back because i couldn't understand the representative. i've called other businesses where i had to press one for english. i'm not against mexican culture. 4 generations ago; my family came from poland yet the country didn't change it's language for us. my french and german friends also had to learn english; AND NOW SPANISH. a country should have a standardized language.

*Boy

denverfan wrote:

Being bi-lingual gives you a huge step up in the game...I suggest taking an immersion course for whatever language you feel need to know. I was speaking pretty fluent at the end of a weeks time (slang aside), and paid maybe a grand. Moreover, whenever the world cup is on, you can flip over to Telemundo which provided way better covereage than the networks here in the US; Marcello Balboa, Lalas, MiaChastaHamm providing commentary on the worlds greatest players??? Thats like having Ryan Leaf, Rex Grossman critiqe John Elway, christ that pissed me off but better left for another thread.

i speak 5 languages, just never picked up spanish. i know i can pick it up in a heartbeat, but i have to admit i'm kind off having a fuck you feel about it. I know 5, you know 1, live in the US and don't speak english. Im fucking myself over though lol....oh well i guess i'll pick it up soon enough, i understand most of it already

rebornFixer

Some of you guys must be brighter than I am, because I don't just learn a new language on a whim. It is pretty tough to do, without being immersed in a culture and hearing the language constantly. Hooked On Phonics (Spanish version) would most definitely NOT work for me.

Abuskedti

reborncareerist wrote:

Some of you guys must be brighter than I am, because I don't just learn a new language on a whim. It is pretty tough to do, without being immersed in a culture and hearing the language constantly. Hooked On Phonics (Spanish version) would most definitely NOT work for me.

agree and its discrimination on our part to think that anyone in America "Should" learn our language.

That would be my advice to someone spending alot of time in a foreign country - but to expect it..well what right do we have to tell someone else how to talk or what they have to learn...

decides2dream

onelongsong wrote:

let's really look at this. in america; you cannot discriminate against anyone who does not speak english. here in arizona i've been in many businesses where the employees don't speak english at all. i've called customer service related businesses and had to hang up and call back because i couldn't understand the representative. i've called other businesses where i had to press one for english. i'm not against mexican culture. 4 generations ago; my family came from poland yet the country didn't change it's language for us. my french and german friends also had to learn english; AND NOW SPANISH. a country should have a standardized language.

we do.
english is the official first language in the US. spanish is the second. no one will force you to learn either. there are MANY who live in this country their whole lives, not speaking english or spanish. it's a choice.

now, if a company only has spanish speaking employees it is also your choice to do business with them or not. no one is making you give them business. i have dealt with many people who english is not their first language, and while they speak english quite well i still sometimes have difficulty. if it truly is a problem, i have asked to speak to another representative, it has never been an issue. nonetheless, more often than not, patience on both sides of the conversation has usually worked.

on the flip side, i know of others living in foreign countries, and not speaking their language...and they too get by. others choose to learn the other language, others manage a 'working knowledge'...no one is going to force anyone, and it's your choice or not to learn.....and thus how well you 'get by' or not.

onelongsong

decides2dream wrote:

we do.
english is the official first language in the US. spanish is the second. no one will force you to learn either. there are MANY who live in this country their whole lives, not speaking english or spanish. it's a choice.

now, if a company only has spanish speaking employees it is also your choice to do business with them or not. no one is making you give them business. i have dealt with many people who english is not their first language, and while they speak english quite well i still sometimes have difficulty. if it truly is a problem, i have asked to speak to another representative, it has never been an issue. nonetheless, more often than not, patience on both sides of the conversation has usually worked.

on the flip side, i know of others living in foreign countries, and not speaking their language...and they too get by. others choose to learn the other language, others manage a 'working knowledge'...no one is going to force anyone, and it's your choice or not to learn.....and thus how well you 'get by' or not.

i can speak and understand spanish enough to get by. i should have explained that the "victims" i was referring to applied for regular jobs that shouldn't require 2 languages. the jobs didn't pay enough to warrant the person to learn a second language. they are single mothers trying to make ends meet with no time to study a second language.
the fact remains that if we are to cater to the spanish speaking; we should cater to all other languages equally. if i have to push 1 for english and 2 for spanish; i should also have the option to push 3 for german; 4 for french; 5 for polish; and so on. this would be equality. someone coming from germany must learn english; but now spanish too? doesn't this discriminate against the german? are mexicans better than european immigrants? talk of equality is just that; TALK. your point about americans in other countries also brings the fact that other countries don't change the national language for it's visitors or immigrants. the discussion is based on americans born in america; taught english their entire life; and too busy trying to survive to learn another language. the standard for air traffic control the world over is english. i'm not saying english is better or should be the standard world wide; i'm saying that a country that spoke english for over 200 years should not require it's native born citizens to change language to survive in their own country. when i visit mexico; i must speak spanish. that is their national language. canadians speak french and english; should they now have to learn spanish to do business with the US? should the germans have to learn both english and spanish to do business with the united states? how is this fair?

decides2dream

onelongsong wrote:

i can speak and understand spanish enough to get by. i should have explained that the "victims" i was referring to applied for regular jobs that shouldn't require 2 languages. the jobs didn't pay enough to warrant the person to learn a second language. they are single mothers trying to make ends meet with no time to study a second language.
the fact remains that if we are to cater to the spanish speaking; we should cater to all other languages equally. if i have to push 1 for english and 2 for spanish; i should also have the option to push 3 for german; 4 for french; 5 for polish; and so on. this would be equality. someone coming from germany must learn english; but now spanish too? doesn't this discriminate against the german? are mexicans better than european immigrants? talk of equality is just that; TALK. your point about americans in other countries also brings the fact that other countries don't change the national language for it's visitors or immigrants. the discussion is based on americans born in america; taught english their entire life; and too busy trying to survive to learn another language. the standard for air traffic control the world over is english. i'm not saying english is better or should be the standard world wide; i'm saying that a country that spoke english for over 200 years should not require it's native born citizens to change language to survive in their own country. when i visit mexico; i must speak spanish. that is their national language. canadians speak french and english; should they now have to learn spanish to do business with the US? should the germans have to learn both english and spanish to do business with the united states? how is this fair?

obviously, a business must cater to their clients. if the bulk of their clientele are spanish, an employer is fully within their rights to make being bilingual a requirement. if it is stated upfront, it is your choice to aplly or not. you are not being discriminated against. there are plenty of jobs that do not require one to be bilingual, so one should apply for them if they are not.

funny too..weren't you one to use the 'majority' thinking in regards to religion? something about 87% being believers, so thus doesn't majority rule? i disagreed b/c it is a far different idea in my mind...but if you are to aplly such logic there, why not here? WHY is spanish the biggest language here after english? b/c the majority of those who english is not their first language are spanish. pretty simple concept. also too, as i mentioned earlier....spanish is considered the official second language of the US, if you don't like that...you have to take it up with your elected official.


*simply to clarify...bolded points.

onelongsong

decides2dream wrote:

obviously, a business must cater to their clients. if the bulk of their clientele are spanish, an employer is fully within their rights to make being bilingual a requirement. if it is stated upfront, it is your choice to aplly or not. you are not being discriminated against. there are plenty of jobs that do not require one to be bilingual, so one should apply for them if they are not.

funny too..weren't you one to use the 'majority' thinking in regards to religion? something about 87% being believers, so thus doesn't majority rule? i disagreed b/c it is a far different idea in my mind...but if you are to aplly such logic there, why not here? WHY is spanish the biggest language here after english? b/c the majority of those who english is not their first language are spanish. pretty simple concept. also too, as i mentioned earlier....spanish is considered the official second language of the US, if you don't like that...you have to take it up with your elected official.s

the upcoming lawsuits will force the "officials" to make the decision. are you saying that the majority of americans are spanish? i don't understand your point.
the job in question was working at a gas station in america. why would one require spanish in that job?

denverfan

reborncareerist wrote:

Some of you guys must be brighter than I am, because I don't just learn a new language on a whim. It is pretty tough to do, without being immersed in a culture and hearing the language constantly. Hooked On Phonics (Spanish version) would most definitely NOT work for me.

Thats where the immersion class comes in...it really is amazing what ou can pick up within these settings, well worth the time and money! I beleive most provide a money back guarantee, at least mine did. What would you have to loose? Course if you have no need then who cares.

Damn Boy...five languages! thats impressive, my next language I'll pick up is French. Planning this winter which is my off season for business.

decides2dream

onelongsong wrote:

the upcoming lawsuits will force the "officials" to make the decision. are you saying that the majority of americans are spanish? i don't understand your point.
the job in question was working at a gas station in america. why would one require spanish in that job?

i had PMed but since i have returned, again..at least for a bit...thought sure i'll respond here too.

the majority of people who english is NOT THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE, are spanish, in this country...and it is also the official second language of our country.

to answer your question...if one owns a gas station in a very dominant, hispanic community, it would be in the business owners best interest to have staff that can speak both english and spanish..to best serve the needs of their clientele. i already addressed this. there is nothing in our laws that says a business owner can't require it's staff to be bilingual, MANY a business does. if you aren't or don't like it..apply elsewhere. your rights are not being infringed upon.


btw - i know there is a community in florida, wish i could remember the name...but anyway, it's entirely finnish. everyone can and does speak finnish, and sure, some speak english too. how do i know this? b/c my friend from finland moved there for a short while, tol;d me all about it, and her boss - who also is finnish - has lived in this country for 5 years, and he could say maybe 5 words in english. so yea, people can adapt...and obviously, many businesses in that area would require you know finnish.

decides2dream

btw - thus far, it seems like amongst those who responded, which granted is not much...none of us have been or know of anyone being discriminated against b/c they are not bilingual, so it seems so far, not a wide-spread issue.

moeaholic

i can speak english, pig latin, and obic. does that make me tri-lingual?

thankyougrandma

denverfan wrote:

I may have come across wrong...I have accepted the mexican culture as becomming pretty much mainstream, as populations grow (documented or not). I beleive that when realized and embraced by americans, we all come ahead in the end. But, locally we're so far from this point it not even funny. By getting worse I meant mexican/hispanic cultures growing while americans choosing to not accept or embrace this fact.

You hear all the time while bumping around from most everyone "we're in America, speak engish etc."

ah ok, sorry i got it wrong then, good point...

thankyougrandma

decides2dream wrote:

btw - thus far, it seems like amongst those who responded, which granted is not much...none of us have been or know of anyone being discriminated against b/c they are not bilingual, so it seems so far, not a wide-spread issue.

but i think you got a good observation on the first page, most of the time it means not being qualified, more than being discriminized, i agree with that...

decides2dream

thankyougrandma wrote:

but i think you got a good observation on the first page, most of the time it means not being qualified, more than being discriminized, i agree with that...

well there is nothing wrong with that. i've said/admitted as much...but it in NO way means you are discriminated against. it's the same as a job that clearly states you need X years of expereince, or a master's degree, etc...being bilingual is merely another requirement. it's no one's 'fault' if you do not meet the qualifications for a particular job but your own, so then, either get the qualifications you need for the particular job you want...or simply look for another job, or another company. listing clear qualitifications for consideration, not even close to discrimination.

thankyougrandma

decides2dream wrote:

well there is nothing wrong with that. i've said/admitted as much...but it in NO way means you are discriminated against. it's the same as a job that clearly states you need X years of expereince, or a master's degree, etc...being bilingual is merely another requirement. it's no one's 'fault' if you do not meet the qualifications for a particular job but your own, so then, either get the qualifications you need for the particular job you want...or simply look for another job, or another company. listing clear qualitifications for consideration, not even close to discrimination.

... or learn the damn language