So I finally saw Sicko....

smg9779smg9779 Posts: 235
edited January 2008 in A Moving Train
Great movie. I've always felt that there is something seriously wrong with a health care system that has care on one end and profits on the other.

Anyways. After seeing the film, I want to ask all opponents of universal health care why they feel the way they do. To me, we are the most powerful nation in the world, what is so hard about taking care of our own people? Well, I've said it many other time before so I'll say it again: seems like you have to be either ignorant ("everyone gets health insurance with their jobs!") or just a heartless prick ("I have health insurance, thats all that matters") to oppose a universal health care plan.
Steve

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Comments

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Its a basic concept.

    Spend money on violence (the path we are on now) or spend money to save lives (the path they oppose with everythign they've got).

    The US supplies the world with over 50% of its arms. THINK ABOUT THAT.

    And we cant' 'afford' some operation for some 6 year old who needs medical attention? Fuck that system.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Commy wrote:
    Its a basic concept.

    Spend money on violence (the path we are on now) or spend money to save lives (the path they oppose with everythign they've got).

    The US supplies the world with over 50% of its arms. THINK ABOUT THAT.

    And we cant' 'afford' some operation for some 6 year old who needs medical attention? Fuck that system.

    I actually think the basic concept is power. We want to display our power all over the world and be a leader but yet we won't take care of our issues at home (look at the biggest issue we tried to tackle domestically last year immigration, we can't even come to a conclusion on that to secure our borders). If we flex our muscle elsewhere more people see the US and it's power...if we just take care of our own people, then only those in the US can see what a great country we are. The US needs to take care of it's internal issues first (or at least make them a higher priority) and then help outside. I liken it to a family. You'd take care of your family if it was crumbling before you'd go help the guy 2 states over who was having problems...or at least IF you took care of your family first you'd be a whole lot better off to help the other guy.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Commy wrote:
    Its a basic concept.

    Spend money on violence (the path we are on now) or spend money to save lives (the path they oppose with everythign they've got).

    The US supplies the world with over 50% of its arms. THINK ABOUT THAT.

    And we cant' 'afford' some operation for some 6 year old who needs medical attention? Fuck that system.

    Don't you support Ron Pau? Isn't he against anything federally funded?


    Anyway, on topic, I think universal healthcare is a good idea. In fact, every other developed nation has it, except us.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Don't you support Ron Pau? Isn't he against anything federally funded?


    Anyway, on topic, I think universal healthcare is a good idea. In fact, every other developed nation has it, except us.

    I still maintain that the concept of health insurance is the root of the problem. Get rid of that and we start seeing changes.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Commy wrote:
    Its a basic concept.

    Spend money on violence (the path we are on now) or spend money to save lives (the path they oppose with everythign they've got).

    The US supplies the world with over 50% of its arms. THINK ABOUT THAT.

    And we cant' 'afford' some operation for some 6 year old who needs medical attention? Fuck that system.


    i couldnt agree more... it really is that simple


    fuck that system
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    smg9779 wrote:
    Great movie. I've always felt that there is something seriously wrong with a health care system that has care on one end and profits on the other.

    Anyways. After seeing the film, I want to ask all opponents of universal health care why they feel the way they do. To me, we are the most powerful nation in the world, what is so hard about taking care of our own people? Well, I've said it many other time before so I'll say it again: seems like you have to be either ignorant ("everyone gets health insurance with their jobs!") or just a heartless prick ("I have health insurance, thats all that matters") to oppose a universal health care plan.

    I agree. I have state health care and in some states that is a right not a privilege and sometimes when I have gone to a new doctor the bitch receptionist will say some stupid remark like, "oh, we don't accept public aid", like I am some loser or something.
    I didn't see the movie and I really don't know whether or not I will, but I agree 100% that it is fucked up to say that we should not have national universal healthcare because then to be sick and treated is a luxury? That is messed up.
    How do we change that? Do you think it could be changed?
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    smg9779 wrote:
    Great movie. I've always felt that there is something seriously wrong with a health care system that has care on one end and profits on the other.

    Anyways. After seeing the film, I want to ask all opponents of universal health care why they feel the way they do. To me, we are the most powerful nation in the world, what is so hard about taking care of our own people? Well, I've said it many other time before so I'll say it again: seems like you have to be either ignorant ("everyone gets health insurance with their jobs!") or just a heartless prick ("I have health insurance, thats all that matters") to oppose a universal health care plan.


    comes down to prejudice, have's and haves not (this of course includes big business running this country), and failure to go at the root of immigration reform....go after the employers.....but that won't happen.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    writersu wrote:
    I agree. I have state health care and in some states that is a right not a privilege and sometimes when I have gone to a new doctor the bitch receptionist will say some stupid remark like, "oh, we don't accept public aid", like I am some loser or something.
    I didn't see the movie and I really don't know whether or not I will, but I agree 100% that it is fucked up to say that we should not have national universal healthcare because then to be sick and treated is a luxury? That is messed up.
    How do we change that? Do you think it could be changed?
    it is funny...even if you don't agree with the message....
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    know1 wrote:
    I still maintain that the concept of health insurance is the root of the problem. Get rid of that and we start seeing changes.
    please elaborate
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    i just saw it this week also.....and i am completely lost. we have in place several socialized programs; police, fire department, education, and postal service.

    why not health? is it simply about money?
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    callen wrote:
    it is funny...even if you don't agree with the message....



    what's funny about it? Just curious........
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    ajedigecko wrote:
    i just saw it this week also.....and i am completely lost. we have in place several socialized programs; police, fire department, education, and postal service.

    why not health? is it simply about money?


    That's what I never understood. One of the biggest arguments people seem to make against universal health care is something like "I work hard and can pay for my health insurance, why should I pay for other people as well". But how come no one ever says "I work hard and can afford to put my house out if it is on fire, why should I pay to put out other people's fires as well."?
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    writersu wrote:
    what's funny about it? Just curious........
    being sarcastic?

    have you seen it?

    ....looking for the cashier window at hospital....
    which finger do you want to save....wife decided....

    just two examples.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    That's what I never understood. One of the biggest arguments people seem to make against universal health care is something like "I work hard and can pay for my health insurance, why should I pay for other people as well". But how come no one ever says "I work hard and can afford to put my house out if it is on fire, why should I pay to put out other people's fires as well."?
    so are we "stupid" together? :)
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    ajedigecko wrote:
    i just saw it this week also.....and i am completely lost. we have in place several socialized programs; police, fire department, education, and postal service.

    why not health? is it simply about money?


    I think so. Each of my four kids were born at the same hospital which was also a "teaching facility" which meant that residents could work along physicians to get their final training. It was all overseen by established physicians so in no way was it dangerous (I was worried until I got seen when they first told me about it).

    So the first baby I had I was covered by health insurance and the second and third I was not but the fourth I again had coverage.

    So anyway, my point is (thanks for your patience) was that when I received the statement that just broke down the charges the provider discount was HUGE. And I do mean HUGE. Thousands of dollars difference I am talking about here.
    So, it's like if the average person has no health insurance then that means that they may not have money to purchase it (it is a ton of money to purchase on your own), and yet you would be charged thousands of dollars more than if you had it? How could you afford to pay the hospital or doctor all of that money?
    Yeah, I think it is about money.

    I am currently attending college for billing and coding specialist......
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    callen wrote:
    being sarcastic?

    have you seen it?

    ....looking for the cashier window at hospital....
    which finger do you want to save....wife decided....

    just two examples.


    oh, so like irony funny? Cause I like irony funny.

    loved Napoleon Dynamite.........
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    writersu wrote:
    I think so. Each of my four kids were born at the same hospital which was also a "teaching facility" which meant that residents could work along physicians to get their final training. It was all overseen by established physicians so in no way was it dangerous (I was worried until I got seen when they first told me about it).

    So the first baby I had I was covered by health insurance and the second and third I was not but the fourth I again had coverage.

    So anyway, my point is (thanks for your patience) was that when I received the statement that just broke down the charges the provider discount was HUGE. And I do mean HUGE. Thousands of dollars difference I am talking about here.
    So, it's like if the average person has no health insurance then that means that they may not have money to purchase it (it is a ton of money to purchase on your own), and yet you would be charged thousands of dollars more than if you had it? How could you afford to pay the hospital or doctor all of that money?
    Yeah, I think it is about money.

    I am currently attending college for billing and coding specialist......
    yes...when my daughter was born it would have cost 30K? i can not imagine paying that off. luckily the socialized lifestyle i live payed bills.

    me and my wife now realize we are socialists.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    writersu wrote:
    oh, so like irony funny? Cause I like irony funny.

    loved Napoleon Dynamite.........
    exactly......

    saw it in crowded theater....crowd was constantly breaking up...
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    callen wrote:
    exactly......

    saw it in crowded theater....crowd was constantly breaking up...



    maybe I will see it.......but does he bash the national government or the state government?
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    ajedigecko wrote:
    yes...when my daughter was born it would have cost 30K? i can not imagine paying that off. luckily the socialized lifestyle i live payed bills.

    me and my wife now realize we are socialists.

    Wow that is kind of scary. Money shouldn't be a factor in people avoiding medical care. If somone is sick, or thinks they are sick they should have access, since if they are sick and it is serious it is going to get to a point where they probably won't have a choice but to go to a hospital.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    writersu wrote:
    maybe I will see it.......but does he bash the national government or the state government?
    not so much

    ....not sure if you've seen any of his other movies...they're all written as sarcastic comedies...and are really funny.

    oh when I asked you if you were being sarcastic...duh...didn't pay attention that you just said you hadn't seen it yet...sorry.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    Wow that is kind of scary. Money shouldn't be a factor in people avoiding medical care. If somone is sick, or thinks they are sick they should have access, since if they are sick and it is serious it is going to get to a point where they probably won't have a choice but to go to a hospital.

    how is it in Canada? There has been times I have heard of when people have died because they weren't helped at hospitals. I am not sure if they were years ago or not, but I have heard of it.
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Wow that is kind of scary. Money shouldn't be a factor in people avoiding medical care. If somone is sick, or thinks they are sick they should have access, since if they are sick and it is serious it is going to get to a point where they probably won't have a choice but to go to a hospital.
    Thanks for chiming in......most if not all the resistance I get from family and freinds (mind you they have health insurance) is that the care in Canada is horrible.....whats your take?
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    writersu wrote:
    how is it in Canada? There has been times I have heard of when people have died because they weren't helped at hospitals. I am not sure if they were years ago or not, but I have heard of it.
    beat me by a minute!
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • know1 wrote:
    I still maintain that the concept of health insurance is the root of the problem. Get rid of that and we start seeing changes.

    Yea, like no more hospitals.
    The money has to come from somewhere. Until we live in a eutopian society where everything is free, the universal healthcare is still be best option.
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    callen wrote:
    beat me by a minute!


    ok, so I WIN the Have No Life Contest!!!!!!!!

    yeah, me!!!!!!!!
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    Yea, like no more hospitals.
    The money has to come from somewhere. Until we live in a eutopian society where everything is free, the universal healthcare is still be best option.


    still don't think I would feel safe without hospitals but I would like to see them look at prices........

    you know, I just thought of it.....there is a woman I know whose husband is an anesthesiologist, and he said that his insurance he has to hold against malpractice is huge. If we had healthcare that was national, maybe the doctors would be more protected as well?

    what do you think?
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    callen wrote:
    Thanks for chiming in......most if not all the resistance I get from family and freinds (mind you they have health insurance) is that the care in Canada is horrible.....whats your take?


    It could be better but it is not as bad as some people make it out to be. If you got to a clinic you can some times wait up to an hour (maybe 2) if you don't have an appointment (although if it is not busy you won't have to wait at all). If you go to an ER for something life threatening typically I don't think you have to wait, but you will if they determine your injury is non-life threatening and it is busy. There is lots of talk about how a large portion of the population doesn't have a regular family doctor. Personally I don't have a family doctor, not because of any kind of shortage, but because I am in good health, and am too lazy to find one, since the odd time I need a doctor I am fine with a clinic. So I think those figures are exaggerated.

    There is also a lot of talk about long wait time for optional surgery. Like if you need shoulder or hip surgery because of an injury you sometimes have to wait quite awhile. This is unfortunate (especially with our aging population) but it more due to our small population and not enough medical schools. A similar problem is that people that don’t live in major cities sometimes have trouble getting doctors to live in their towns. The governments are trying to address this, I know new medical schools are opening up, including some away from major urban areas, to increase the number of doctors as well as the number in outlying areas.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    writersu wrote:
    still don't think I would feel safe without hospitals but I would like to see them look at prices........

    you know, I just thought of it.....there is a woman I know whose husband is an anesthesiologist, and he said that his insurance he has to hold against malpractice is huge. If we had healthcare that was national, maybe the doctors would be more protected as well?

    what do you think?
    malpractice info US v canada

    The extra cost of malpractice lawsuits accounts for some of the difference in health spending in the two countries. In Canada the total cost of settlements, legal fees, and insurance comes to $4 per person each year, but in the United States it is $16.[67] Average payouts to American plaintiffs were $265,103, while payouts to Canadian plaintiffs were somewhat higher, averaging $309,417.[68] However, malpractice suits are far more common in the U.S., with 350% more suits filed each year per person. [67] While malpractice costs are significantly higher in the U.S., they make up only a small proportion of total medical spending. The total cost of defending and settling malpractice lawsuits in the U.S. in 2001 was approximately $6.5bn, or 0.46% of total health spending.[69] Critics say that defensive medicine consumes up to 9% of American healthcare expenses.[70][71] In the same year in Canada, the total burden of malpractice suits was $237 million, or 0.27% of total health spending.[67]

    emphasis mine...but i think the biggest difference is what's bolded.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    It could be better but it is not as bad as some people make it out to be. If you got to a clinic you can some times wait up to an hour (maybe 2) if you don't have an appointment (although if it is not busy you won't have to wait at all). If you go to an ER for something life threatening typically I don't think you have to wait, but you will if they determine your injury is non-life threatening and it is busy. There is lots of talk about how a large portion of the population doesn't have a regular family doctor. Personally I don't have a family doctor, not because of any kind of shortage, but because I am in good health, and am too lazy to find one, since the odd time I need a doctor I am fine with a clinic. So I think those figures are exaggerated.

    There is also a lot of talk about long wait time for optional surgery. Like if you need shoulder or hip surgery because of an injury you sometimes have to wait quite awhile. This is unfortunate (especially with our aging population) but it more due to our small population and not enough medical schools. A similar problem is that people that don’t live in major cities sometimes have trouble getting doctors to live in their towns. The governments are trying to address this, I know new medical schools are opening up, including some away from major urban areas, to increase the number of doctors as well as the number in outlying areas.


    that is true even here, to a degree I think.

    er's do that here and it does make sense that if the staff is preoccupied with other people who are in serious danger that they should be helped before my with the possible exception of maybe some strictly on staff pediatric dr's/staff to help kids because they freak out totally when they have to wait and watch all the scary stuff there.

    it sounds like your healthcare is working
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
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