A Question For Us Lefties

13

Comments

  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    cornnifer wrote:
    It's EVERYONE'S job to make the world a better place.

    I agree. Now let's all hold hands and sing about the joys of Coca-Cola.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    ryan198 wrote:
    Today I was watching ESPN and saw Tim Hardaway's comments about John Ameche coming out as gay. Eventually his interviewer Dan Lebatard got him to come out and say "I hate gay people". At first I was upset, and pissed at Hardaway for being such an idiot...and I still am to an extent. However, what does Dan Lebatard or myself, or anyone of us gain from knowing that Hardaway is an idiot? Does that make us better than him? Does Lebatard getting Hardaway to say that make Lebatard a better person? Will this mean more human rights for homosexuals? Or does it just confirm the fact that gay basketball players do not want to come out, b/c many of their teammates may feel like Hardaway but keep quiet about it to the press? In other words, does pointing out the obvious, in this case 'that homophobia exists in the NBA' really do anything to make this world a better place? I think quite contrarilily that this is part of the spectacle, that it's just a way for ESPN to capitalize on John Ameche for this few days of speaking about homosexuality in the NBA, then they will forget him tommorow and move onto T.O. or Bobby Knight or whomever will get them the most viewers. Thoughts anyone?

    the right to free speech was repealed in the 1970's. he has no right to express his feelings or opinions in public. that is now strictly forbidden.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    Its just fodder so sell newspapers and magazines. Hardaway isnt even IN the NBA. Non story
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Believe it or not I used to watch the Golden Girls. Not because my grandmother watched it, but because I enjoyed it. :o


    Dont tell Tim Hardaway that
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    onelongsong wrote:
    the right to free speech was repealed in the 1970's. he has no right to express his feelings or opinions in public. that is now strictly forbidden.
    I'm not sure what you are implying here? Hardaway wasn't arrested for what he said, he wasn't beaten, he wasn't really punished (other than losing his representative job for the NBA). The only thing that happened was that he was called out for being a moronic bigot, which, in fact, he is. As several others have pointed out his statements are akin to someone in the 1940's saying they wouldn't play with Jackie Robinson or Larry Doby, because they are black. So what's this got to do with Hardaway's right to free speech? He said something stupid and got crushed for it...it seems to me like you want to defend what he said as somehow correct, which by the way is outright lunacy, but are afraid to speak your mind, no?
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    ryan198 wrote:
    I'm not sure what you are implying here? Hardaway wasn't arrested for what he said, he wasn't beaten, he wasn't really punished (other than losing his representative job for the NBA). The only thing that happened was that he was called out for being a moronic bigot, which, in fact, he is. As several others have pointed out his statements are akin to someone in the 1940's saying they wouldn't play with Jackie Robinson or Larry Doby, because they are black. So what's this got to do with Hardaway's right to free speech? He said something stupid and got crushed for it...it seems to me like you want to defend what he said as somehow correct, which by the way is outright lunacy, but are afraid to speak your mind, no?

    you just stressed my point. he spoke his feelings and look at the attitude you copped.
    i'd be interested in how many women would allow me to watch them undress and shower? i have every bloddy right to undress and shower without someone looking at me in a sexual manner. i'd feel sexually harassed and there was a case in california where girls refused to shower with the lesbians for the same reason.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    onelongsong wrote:
    you just stressed my point. he spoke his feelings and look at the attitude you copped.
    i'd be interested in how many women would allow me to watch them undress and shower? i have every bloddy right to undress and shower without someone looking at me in a sexual manner. i'd feel sexually harassed and there was a case in california where girls refused to shower with the lesbians for the same reason.
    What are you saying? I just said that the guy was a bigot, which he admitted he was, and a moron, which by all accounts he is. This has nothing to do with me containing his speech, it's me arguing with the idiotic statements he spoke.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't public showers skeevy no matter what? I mean your body is out there for everyone gay/straight/both/neither to evaluate, and if you are in the NBA aren't women, gay reporters, straight reporters in the locker room anyway? How does this make things different? Showering after an NBA game or practice is not a private thing, and, as such, I think you have other issues with Amaechi than just something like showering.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    cutback wrote:
    I really thought this thread was for left handed people.

    So did I :(
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    bee_boy wrote:
    So did I :(
    Hehe...it's kind of two-fold. I published the thread, and I'm left handed (actually bi-handed, but write lefty), as well as very liberal.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    ryan198 wrote:
    Hehe...it's kind of two-fold. I published the thread, and I'm left handed (actually bi-handed, but write lefty), as well as very liberal.

    When you say very liberal you mean only politically? Or homosexual?

    I have quite a lot of gay friends and they're probably the nicest people out there.

    Keep looking for that rainbow fellas! LOL
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Haha...although sometimes my fiance makes me think being gay would be better ;), I have no actual sexual feelings toward the same sex. I just think it's silly to believe that bigotry is fine, and that's why I fight against people like onelongsong.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    ryan198 wrote:
    Haha...although sometimes my fiance makes me think being gay would be better ;), I have no actual sexual feelings toward the same sex. I just think it's silly to believe that bigotry is fine, and that's why I fight against people like onelongsong.

    Intolerance sucks. It should be illegalized.

    Then again, a bad use of your freedom of speech leads to intolerance... It' just one of those things that I've noticed. I'm probably wrong though... as usual.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    That's the whole thing that made me laugh at onelongsong's post. The dude said something bigoted, and I as well as many others pointed that out that's all. This wasn't anything against free speech, it was against being a bigoted moron.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    slightofjeff wrote:
    It's not really a sportswriters' place to make the world a better place.

    Occasionally, it can be a sportswriters' place to explain the world. Which is what LeBatard did in this instance.

    Wanna know why gay NBA players don't come out? Because most of the heterosexual ones think like Tim Hardaway.



    good summary, and sadly, probably quite true as demonstrated here.


    and hell, i thought maybe, just maybe..it was going to be an interesting article about us southpaws. ;)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    ryan198 wrote:
    That's the whole thing that made me laugh at onelongsong's post. The dude said something bigoted, and I as well as many others pointed that out that's all. This wasn't anything against free speech, it was against being a bigoted moron.

    I see your point and support it.

    And that's the way the cookie crumbles.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    ryan198 wrote:
    Haha...although sometimes my fiance makes me think being gay would be better ;), I have no actual sexual feelings toward the same sex. I just think it's silly to believe that bigotry is fine, and that's why I fight against people like onelongsong.

    so you say a woman is bigoted if she finds it offensive for me to watch her undress and shower? please explain. she is uncomfortable with someone watching her in a sexual manner and feels her privacy is invaded. by your deffinition; she is bigoted against men. or are you bigoted by believing women are not equal to men? if women are truely equal to men; why do we have seperate rest rooms? because one has the right to "expose" (for lack of a better word) themselves without someone seeing them in a sexual manner. we went through this when women were legally given equal rights. the opposition insisted that seperate rest rooms violated that law. and it did. but the sexual aspects countered that argument.
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    cutback wrote:
    I really thought this thread was for left handed people.






    Carry on.

    That was good.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    ryan198 wrote:
    What are you saying? I just said that the guy was a bigot, which he admitted he was, and a moron, which by all accounts he is. This has nothing to do with me containing his speech, it's me arguing with the idiotic statements he spoke.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't public showers skeevy no matter what? I mean your body is out there for everyone gay/straight/both/neither to evaluate, and if you are in the NBA aren't women, gay reporters, straight reporters in the locker room anyway? How does this make things different? Showering after an NBA game or practice is not a private thing, and, as such, I think you have other issues with Amaechi than just something like showering.

    i'm saying he has the right to like or dislike anyone he wants. just as you believe you have the right to name call and label based on your opinion. based on your statements; one could say you are bigoted against those who feel uncomfortable undressing in front of someone that might look at them in a sexual manner.
    i don't believe reporters are allowed in the showers. and the reporters are not in the showers at practice games. and in this situation; the two would be in the shower at least 180 days out of the year.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    onelongsong wrote:
    so you say a woman is bigoted if she finds it offensive for me to watch her undress and shower? please explain. she is uncomfortable with someone watching her in a sexual manner and feels her privacy is invaded. by your deffinition; she is bigoted against men. or are you bigoted by believing women are not equal to men? if women are truely equal to men; why do we have seperate rest rooms? because one has the right to "expose" (for lack of a better word) themselves without someone seeing them in a sexual manner. we went through this when women were legally given equal rights. the opposition insisted that seperate rest rooms violated that law. and it did. but the sexual aspects countered that argument.
    Did you read my earlier post? In the NBA or any professional sport for that matter it is quite commonplace to take showers with members of the media (who come from all walks of life in the room with you). Whereas in the example you are giving the commonality of men being in a women's shower just on the random, or vice versa, is not there - in fact its considered weird by most accounts. So you see, your argument is working against logic here. If, however, in the NBA no media were allowed in, or public showering wasn't commonplace, then MAYBE you would have a solid argument base. Since this is not true, and oftentimes NBA players are interviewed with towels wrapped around their waist, or pass through the room completely naked then I would say your argument does not hold up.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    The Illinoisemakers wrote:
    That was good.

    i thought it was for left handed people too. turns out it's about censorship.

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