Does anyone acknowledge we have social nets in place in our countries for reasons? There's a lot of blame going on in this thread and not quite as much understanding.
As for girls having children "deliberately to get the government handout", as one of "those girls" the messed up psychology involved goes wayyyy, wayyyy deeper. This is about girls who have serious problems, not girls who are looking to subsist on social assistance. It's clear that many sanction inhumane practices in order to "solve" these problems, and again I will say that thankfully those in power understand base psychology when it comes to such subjects.
Elegant post as usual angelica....have no idea how you do it ....
I agree and the continuation, at least in the USA, of trimming social nets is a concern,...not everyone is looking for a hand-out...they are there to protect and help one when life takes a bad turn....to totally severe the net will leave those that are not looking for "hand-outs" left out in the cold as well...which is what I was alluding to with a man losing a job from a large corp. that is taking the job to another country and he is a father of five.....
I am not saying it does not happen...but really to prove this and deny assistance because you have the belief that someone is doing this...nothing sort of legal statement admitting to this would approve of any action towards the party involved...just saying you would be walking a very tight line with this type of mandate....so tight I do not think it is possible.....
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that we should deny anyone assitance and you're right, you can't prove this. All I'm saying is that this does happen, it is a problem, and something needs to be done about it. My solution is to have some sort of accountability for government assitance. You have to hold a steady job and your kids have to be in school and graduate to get any kind of money from the government. I just think we are enabling people to do these kinds of things when there is no accountability.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
Does anyone acknowledge we have social nets in place in our countries for reasons? There's a lot of blame going on in this thread and not quite as much understanding.
As for girls having children "deliberately to get the government handout", as one of "those girls" the messed up psychology involved goes wayyyy, wayyyy deeper. This is about girls who have serious problems, not girls who are looking to subsist on social assistance. It's clear that many sanction inhumane practices in order to "solve" these problems, and again I will say that thankfully those in power understand base psychology when it comes to such subjects.
Well this problem is certainly more common than you think...I'm guessing you don't work or deal with any kind of urban environment?
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
Elegant post as usual angelica....have no idea how you do it ....
I agree and the continuation, at least in the USA, of trimming social nets is a concern,...not everyone is looking for a hand-out...they are there to protect and help one when life takes a bad turn....to totally severe the net will leave those that are not looking for "hand-outs" left out in the cold as well...which is what I was alluding to with a man losing a job from a large corp. that is taking the job to another country and he is a father of five.....
Thanks Rockin'InCanada. Of course, there are many who are temporarily down on their luck and would not be considered to be looking for a 'free ride'.
Back to girls looking to take advantage of the system. In my society, being a girl, I was orally sodomized at the age of five by neighbourhood teenage boys. I was sexually violated in a public swimming pool at the age of 13, lost my virginity to rape by two boys at the age of 16 and was again raped at the age of 23, before I really cracked and went into my nightmarish mental illness life that lasted 15 years. My choice to get pregnant at the age of 17 definitely sprung from life circumstances and my being a product of the society I was raised in. Silly me, I thought we'd be together for forever, rather than for the 4 1/2 years we were. When a girl has her heart set on being a teenage mother and living 'on the system', that's fallout from our society. 1 in 4 girls is sexually assaulted before adulthood, by boys/men from somewhere. Oh, people are accountable for what they contribute to in society. We all pay the price for our problems and our own ignorance. And sure, we'd love to not have to.
I was well aware of my cliche statistical status as fitting all the groups that disposed me towards psychiatric issues such as depression: poverty, single parenthood, lack of support, etc. Interestingly, for fear of passing on my own genetic flaws, I asked numerous doctors to sterilize me, and all of them felt that I was too young and preferred to not do it!
If we want to discuss girls making poor decisions, I'd like to bring all the social variables to the light. And I'd love to hear from any guy here who can relate to being orally sodomized or sexually assaulted as a child. It might predispose me to hear the argument against understanding and problem solving pertaining to people with serious low self-esteem and life fallout.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Well this problem is certainly more common than you think...I'm guessing you don't work or deal with any kind of urban environment?
For the record, most of my friends were single mothers, as well, so I'm well aware of the vastness of this problem. I was also terrified of perpetuating the cycles for my own children. I fortunately have not, for I was able to heal myself, turn my life around and change the cycles so that my own 24 year old daughter--the product of my teen pregnancy--is a self-respecting young woman who would not dream of going through that. But I also have a friend who runs and escort agency, and I had one who become a drug addicted prostitute who was murdered by British Columbia's serial killer Robert Picton. There are worst ways to play out the fallout of the system than my own life.
Please know that I am BIG on personal accountability. I merely KNOW that it goes hand in hand with environmental factors.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Curious about your thoughts on this issue. Seems to me that in this country our government assistance programs allow for people to have as many children as they wish and the tax payers pick up the bill. Should there be a limit on the number of children you can have and still get gov't assistance? Should there be stipulations such as keeping a steady job or making sure that your children stay in school before you are eligible for government money? What do you guys think?
Curious about your thoughts on this issue. Seems to me that in this country our government assistance programs allow for people to have as many children as they wish and the tax payers pick up the bill. Should there be a limit on the number of children you can have and still get gov't assistance? Should there be stipulations such as keeping a steady job or making sure that your children stay in school before you are eligible for government money? What do you guys think?
We need to change our tax system to stop encouraging people to having (new) kids. I know people who the only way they can get a "raise" is to leverage the child credit on taxes. The child credit was set up for families who needed children as farmhands and was not meant for the 21st century.
Confucious Says: He who buries a man's wife alive, should not expect to sit at that man's dinner table without the subject coming up.
Well I guess I am the other side of the coin. Although my story is nothing compared to Angelica's, I just wanted to give another perspective. My husband had a job, with insurance, benefits, etc. I was a stay-at-home mom, and altho we weren't living the good life, we were ok. Then his company got bought out. Oops, there goes the job! Rather than getting on welfare or food stamps, he found another job immediately. A job that has no benefits at ALL. A job that is also based on commision. I started looking for work. With 3 kids, anything I was qualified to do would be negated by childcare expenses. At one point, it would have cost MORE than what a job paid to have childcare. So, I started looking for ways to cut expenses as much as possible. I started couponing, and cut the grocery bill down enough that we are surviving. In the meantime, my 3 kids get state funded insurance. Here it's peachcare. I do pay a small premium every month, and my kids are fully covered. I also get WIC for my youngest, which provides us with 1 gallon of milk a week, and 1 jar peanut butter, 1 pack of cheese, and one box of cereal a month. While I am very aware these programs cost the government, and in return cost taxpayers, there is no way our family could have survived without them. Do I feel guilty for using them? Yes and no. On one hand, we pay taxes, so I feel we should be able to use the programs if needed. On the other hand, I know there are many others much worse off, by no choice or fault of thier own. It feels like a catch 22. But at the same time, I also know I am doing what I can to keep my family off food stamps, welfare, and out of gov't housing. I guess my point is, look at every angle of the issue before you decide people getting gov't assistance need to be sterilized. Oh, and for the record, no, I can't havwe kids anymore. So thanks to heredity & a hysterectomy, you won't have to support any more kids from me.
Comments
Elegant post as usual angelica....have no idea how you do it
I agree and the continuation, at least in the USA, of trimming social nets is a concern,...not everyone is looking for a hand-out...they are there to protect and help one when life takes a bad turn....to totally severe the net will leave those that are not looking for "hand-outs" left out in the cold as well...which is what I was alluding to with a man losing a job from a large corp. that is taking the job to another country and he is a father of five.....
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that we should deny anyone assitance and you're right, you can't prove this. All I'm saying is that this does happen, it is a problem, and something needs to be done about it. My solution is to have some sort of accountability for government assitance. You have to hold a steady job and your kids have to be in school and graduate to get any kind of money from the government. I just think we are enabling people to do these kinds of things when there is no accountability.
Well this problem is certainly more common than you think...I'm guessing you don't work or deal with any kind of urban environment?
Back to girls looking to take advantage of the system. In my society, being a girl, I was orally sodomized at the age of five by neighbourhood teenage boys. I was sexually violated in a public swimming pool at the age of 13, lost my virginity to rape by two boys at the age of 16 and was again raped at the age of 23, before I really cracked and went into my nightmarish mental illness life that lasted 15 years. My choice to get pregnant at the age of 17 definitely sprung from life circumstances and my being a product of the society I was raised in. Silly me, I thought we'd be together for forever, rather than for the 4 1/2 years we were. When a girl has her heart set on being a teenage mother and living 'on the system', that's fallout from our society. 1 in 4 girls is sexually assaulted before adulthood, by boys/men from somewhere. Oh, people are accountable for what they contribute to in society. We all pay the price for our problems and our own ignorance. And sure, we'd love to not have to.
I was well aware of my cliche statistical status as fitting all the groups that disposed me towards psychiatric issues such as depression: poverty, single parenthood, lack of support, etc. Interestingly, for fear of passing on my own genetic flaws, I asked numerous doctors to sterilize me, and all of them felt that I was too young and preferred to not do it!
If we want to discuss girls making poor decisions, I'd like to bring all the social variables to the light. And I'd love to hear from any guy here who can relate to being orally sodomized or sexually assaulted as a child. It might predispose me to hear the argument against understanding and problem solving pertaining to people with serious low self-esteem and life fallout.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Please know that I am BIG on personal accountability. I merely KNOW that it goes hand in hand with environmental factors.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
We need to change our tax system to stop encouraging people to having (new) kids. I know people who the only way they can get a "raise" is to leverage the child credit on taxes. The child credit was set up for families who needed children as farmhands and was not meant for the 21st century.