G8 and Heiligendamm

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  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    gue_barium wrote:
    Yeah.

    If you've fallen in with some experienced and well-organized organizers, that's a good thing, and it sounds like you have. There does come a time that it needs to be taken to the next level, and that doesn't mean violence, but it means being ready to know how to respond to violence.

    i'm connected to a lot of organizations ... and for sure - there is definitely the need for some extreme elements to the cause ... but i find in this day and age - you make much more progress with the good cop/bad cop approach ...

    engaging groups rather then alienating ... hitting singles instead of going for the home run every time ...
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    Yeah.

    If you've fallen in with some experienced and well-organized organizers, that's a good thing, and it sounds like you have. There does come a time that it needs to be taken to the next level, and that doesn't mean violence, but it means being ready to know how to respond to violence.

    Almost all large-scale protests/demonstrations come with agreements with the local law enforcement enforcer on the scene. A lot of what happens is on the opinion of whoever that enforcer may be....
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    polaris wrote:
    i'm connected to a lot of organizations ... and for sure - there is definitely the need for some extreme elements to the cause ... but i find in this day and age - you make much more progress with the good cop/bad cop approach ...

    engaging groups rather then alienating ... hitting singles instead of going for the home run every time ...

    I'm not sure what you mean.

    August 2007.


    That's what it's all about.
    You can choose which role you'll play in the demonstration.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    gue_barium wrote:
    Almost all large-scale protests/demonstrations come with agreements with the local law enforcement enforcer on the scene. A lot of what happens is on the opinion of whoever that enforcer may be....

    oh for sure ... but ultimately law enforcement is controlled by political interests ... we've been screwed over waaaay too many times to put any real faith in them ...
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    polaris wrote:
    oh for sure ... but ultimately law enforcement is controlled by political interests ... we've been screwed over waaaay too many times to put any real faith in them ...

    Oh Yeah. Depends on where you're at, and the perceived intent.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    polaris wrote:
    the G8 will never further positive change ... they are the wealthy only looking to maintain that wealth ... listening to them talk pains my stomach ...

    as for the riots - they are never started by the real protestors ...

    how many of the G8 leaders are not right wing conservatives? ...


    o.k., there is also the J8 going on, I heard yesterday.

    71 teenagers from around 50 countries of the globe
    are discussing the G8 summit big headlines for one week in Wismar:

    - steps and contracts to slow down climate change problems
    - high death rate and extreme poverty in Africa
    - world economics and globalization
    (I herefor would like to recommend "Der Spiegel" No. 23/ 2007 :) )
    - War and Terror
    - the US defence shield in Europe, just beside Russia

    8 teenagers of the eight G8 countries will then present their results and questions to the big heads of this summit...
    ...and hopefully to the press, too.

    I like that one.

    and about the riots:
    they say here, that it got started by the "AUTONOMEN LINKE and the Neo Nazis"
    from all around Europe.
    There were 2000 dark clothed and masked people who started the riots. They arrested guys from Greek, Netherlands, Chech republic and many from Germany.
    I guess this one does NOT GO on the police but to some hopeless, very violant humans around.

    nevertheless, they cover our news and there is not much written or said about peaceful protests anymore.
    ...so .. sad.

    and for the rest: ...did not further follow the discussion (LOST night here :) )
    but I try to catch up on it now.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    breakmarysfall wrote:
    and about the riots:
    they say here, that it got started by the "AUTONOMEN LINKE and the Neo Nazis"
    from all around Europe.
    There were 2000 dark clothed and masked people who started the riots. They arrested guys from Greek, Netherlands, Chech republic and many from Germany.
    I guess this one does NOT GO on the police but to some hopeless, very violant humans around.

    it wouldn't surprise me if these guys got paid to be there ... anything to distract the world from the real issues ...
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    polaris wrote:
    it wouldn't surprise me if these guys got paid to be there ... anything to distract the world from the real issues ...

    ...interesting point,
    but I doubt it that it refers to Germany already.

    We indeed do have some very violant groups here, not in a big amount, but they are existing:
    one group the extreme left, the other the extreme right.
    Both spread the propaganda that they are always ready to fight and ready to kill for whatever right.

    In this case those groups organized international help over the internet,
    and that is why they were so strong and so many in numbers.
    - so far the official version that I could accept-

    But nevertheless, I also would not be surprised if those folks were indeed paid to do the riots, just to distract the population from the peaceful demonstrations and the messages they wanted to spread around.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • Specifics
    Specifics Posts: 417
    gue_barium wrote:
    do you fear the establishment?

    what is the establishment? if the media is power, then empower yourself.

    if this establishment is some fecund, immobile, stagnant fact of life, then why do anything at all? why even voice an opinion?

    the establishment is the established, and the current establishment is fucked because of those that have a vested interest in tomorrow being the same as today.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    Specifics wrote:
    the establishment is the established, and the current establishment is fucked because of those that have a vested interest in tomorrow being the same as today.


    what a nice sentence... I really do like it...
    ...close to a mind twister with a really good message to a true point.
    :)


    ...but my thoughts were on the current news...
    ..so later.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    - The G8 alternative-,
    taking place in Rostock those days.

    I like this one!!! :
    (published at "ARD, Tagesschau, 05.06.07, 20.00 Uhr").

    Several groups of special interest called for a meeting at more or less short notice. Some members of those groups and other interested will discuss also the main HEADLINE- setlist of the G8 summit in Heiligendamm, that are:

    - environmental protection and LAWS for climate change/ CO2 decrease! (aka Greenpeace)
    - World's poverty
    (aka: meine Stimme gegen Armut)
    - Human Rights + life on earth
    (aka Amnesty International and .Watch)
    - The US defence shield in EAST Europe
    (local politicians)
    - Globalization and its effects on us.
    (politicians and worker's unions)

    For two days they are discussing,
    (then they will maybe and hopefully rock out to the music of the organization:
    http://www.meine-stimme-gegen-armut.de, broadcast at the 07.06.07 ARD, 18.20 uhr)

    Then they will represent their results to the G8 summit...
    ...and hopefully to the press, too.


    sounds good to me.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    - Grönemeyer' s RockGipfel-
    taking place in Rostock just right now.

    :)

    - it could be indeed partly be up to this twisted country Germany
    but for sure it will be up to the Western world,
    the folks of the big eight to change the state of the world!

    - it is a great concert with some great Musicians;
    a very peaceful happening under a bright sunny day.

    - Bono, Bob, African and German bands do a good job and deliver cool performences with great messages

    - Grönemeyer impressed me big times;
    also through the fact that he sees no sense in talking to politicians of the West but to reach folks instead and talk with them

    - right now he is on stage, and wow.
    he is one of a spokes man :)

    p.s. the Tote Hosen are funny too and just reflect my punk teenage years and Campino did a great translation of Bonos speak ;)

    so I will listen to
    _Ein Stück vom Himmel_ , now
    so wonderful lyrics

    go Herby, go... :) we all, 1.o00.000 Germans stand right around you with our signature to ask Angela to keep her promise made exactly two years ago in Scotland.

    ...this is now my glimpse of hope although I think the achievement in Climate Change subject is a joke.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.

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