Universal Health Care
nick1977
Posts: 327
I had a client come into my office today. It is a couple, in their 50's. The man is a self employed truck driver, making very little money (and even less since he started going through cancer treatments). The woman makes $125 per week as a receptionist. They own a small house, and he inherited 60 acres of land from his father. They cannot afford health insurance, even though both are good, hard working people. The man has been diagnosed with colon cancer, and need extensive treatment that he cannot pay for.
They told me that the land is the only thing they have, and were planning on living on it when they retire. Now they are afraid that they must sell it to pay for his cancer treatment.
He can only qualify for Medicaid assistance after selling the land and using the proceeds to pay for his treatment.
This is wrong. Cancer can hit any one of us. It is not right for some people to have to use all of their assets to pay for treatment because they do not have the money to pay for health insurance. If I got cancer, I could keep my life savings because my health insurance would pay for my treatments.
This is just wrong. I don't know what the solution is, but there is a double standard.....we make the lower income bracket who cannot afford health insurance sell all they have to pay for their health care for life threatning problems, while middle inocme and up, who are covered by health insurance, can keep their life savings because their insurance will pay for their care.
This is not right. I believe everyone should have health coverage for catestrophic life threatning injuries (I'm not talking about routine medical procedures). Cancer can hit any one of us at any time. I think society has a duty to take care of those people. If one cannot afford health insurance, the government should pick up the tab.
I don't know what the solution is, but I just recognize that this is unjust, and is not right in a society where we have abundant resources.
They told me that the land is the only thing they have, and were planning on living on it when they retire. Now they are afraid that they must sell it to pay for his cancer treatment.
He can only qualify for Medicaid assistance after selling the land and using the proceeds to pay for his treatment.
This is wrong. Cancer can hit any one of us. It is not right for some people to have to use all of their assets to pay for treatment because they do not have the money to pay for health insurance. If I got cancer, I could keep my life savings because my health insurance would pay for my treatments.
This is just wrong. I don't know what the solution is, but there is a double standard.....we make the lower income bracket who cannot afford health insurance sell all they have to pay for their health care for life threatning problems, while middle inocme and up, who are covered by health insurance, can keep their life savings because their insurance will pay for their care.
This is not right. I believe everyone should have health coverage for catestrophic life threatning injuries (I'm not talking about routine medical procedures). Cancer can hit any one of us at any time. I think society has a duty to take care of those people. If one cannot afford health insurance, the government should pick up the tab.
I don't know what the solution is, but I just recognize that this is unjust, and is not right in a society where we have abundant resources.
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Even health insurance is no guarantee, because it follows your job. My treatments last year cost over $250,000, and I used up my disability leave and all my sick and vacation time, and I still wasn't able to work every day. I'm lucky enough to work for decent people, that's why I'm still here, but they would have been entirely within their legal rights to fire me ... I was unable to do the job for the required number of days. If they had, my income would have gone to $0, and my health insurance costs would have tripled. We could have afforded that, at least for a while, on my husband's income, but there are millions of people who couldn't, or who don't have a spouse at all.
People think that they're ok because they're insured, but it's frighteningly easy to fall between the cracks even if you think you're covered. I know people that it's happened to.
we'd rather lose 2.3 trillion dollars in defense spending, which was announced the day before 9/11.
and i think i had a good night bartending when i break 150,...
~Ron Burgundy
suggest he call the american cancer society and request help. i know a woman who had breast cancer and they paid for everything including yearly check ups to make sure she's cancer free. they can also put the land in a trust and make someone else the executor. usually their heirs.
Hard working people yet she only earns 125 dollars a week?
I earned that in 11th grade working at lil caesars pizza.
if we act like slaves, we will be treated as so
The problem is health insurance itself. It is a monopoly whose sole interest is to make costs as high as possible so that everyone is FORCED to have insurance. It dictates to health providers what they must charge.
I guarantee that if health insurance were banned and people had to pay directly out of pocket for their care and medications , healthcare costs would come down due to competition.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm all for universal medical coverage. But you do know it's only going to be paid for through increased taxes, such as an inheritance tax and income tax. In which case I'm sure this couple would have been bitching that they couldn't afford to inherit the land in the first place and that the wife's take home pay was only $80 per week.
They should count themselves lucky that a) they have the piece of land in the first place, and b) that there is Medicaid as a backstop once their financial resources are used up. But to be bitching that they are expected to use up their financial resources when disiaster hits while they haven't been lobbying to pay way higher taxes is so self servign that it makes the discussion non-sensical.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
These people do not have much education, and are unskilled people. They will use the land to pay for treatment if they have to, and they plan on it, but what I am saying is is that it is not right.
Cancer can hit anyone...rich or poor......it is not right that an uneducated person with just a little bit of money has to use all they own to pay for their treatment when the rich man (or middle class) who has an employer that can pay for health insurance will have decent coverange and does not have to use their life savings to pay for the same treatment.
As far as increased taxes, I am all for the estate tax....but the estate tax would not have applied to a piece of real estate worth $60,000. All these people have is $60,000....they were going to use that land for their retirement, and now they use it for cancer treatments. Cancer is bad enough. I'm just saying if these people were educated, had good paying jobs, and could afford health insurance, they could keep their land just because of their social status.
I am just saying that is not right. They have not bitched at all about their situation...they came to me for legal advice, and I am giving it to them. I am bitching for them because it is not right that they have to use all of the money that they have for this when the same person in a different social status would be mostly covered by health insurance.
These people have not griped or complained at all....they are just doing all they can to get through the situation.....I am the one griping....I don't mind paying higher taxes if it is used for a good cause.....and health coverage for life threatning illnesses for those who cannot afford health insurance is a good cause.
This is not "wrong". The "duty" you speak of does not exist. The "solution" is certainly not sactioning theft, and the "abundant resources" you speak of are people, not pawns in whatever guilt trade you propose.
I see where you are coming from. Something does have to be done, I'm not convinced it's Universal Health Care (gov't provided), but something needs ot be done.
First, why would or should their land have been tax exempt? They did nothin gto earn it after all.
Second, do you have any idea of the wait times for medical services in Canada? Or the fact that if you move between cities you could go years without a family physician due to a doctor shortage. A doctor shortage fueled by the universal medical coverage system.
Universal medical coverage is not a miracle cure. Taxes are significantly higher and odds are that would they would have had to sold the property long ago just to support themselves. All that said I think it's nearly a crime that the US doesn't offer a better form of universal medical insurance, one that requires monthly payments and is geared towards high risk medical issues and not day to day health care.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Let me tell you what needs to be done. The man needs cancer treatment. That's what needs to be done, for him.
Now, you can either give him that treatment, you can deny him that treatment, or you can force someone else to do it for you.
Which do you choose?
everyone wants free services but nobody wants higher taxes to pay for the services. people cry about the poor education system but every election they vote down higher taxes to pay for more schools. ironic; isn't it?
So you don't think it is wrong or unjust for people to be treated differently based upon social status? Health care, especially in life threatening conditions should be a right, not a privilege to those who can afford it.
If government does not have a duty to look out for the best interest of the people, then what is the purpose of government? Illnesses can hit anyone, at anytime. No person is exempt. We live in this world with other people. We live in a society. We depend on society in everything we do. We cannot function without other people. I think a role of government is to promote public health and safety of all of its citizens. It is not just or right for society to treat people who get illnesses differently based on social status or ability to afford insurance.
The abnundant resources are not people. Western civilization has an abundance of resources. Individuals control the resources, but you cannot deny that Western civilization has an abundance of resources. A portion of those resources are contributed to the government each year to keep the country going. If we have an abundance of resources and are able to provide health care to all of the citizens who cannot afford resources, then shouldn't we do so? It could be you one day who are diagnosed with cancer and need government assistance to pay for the treatments. It could be me. It could be any of us.
How is taxing theft? I agree that there comes a point when taxation becomes too high and too burdensome. If that happens, the government is abusing its authority. However, it takes money for a government to do its job. Taxing is the only way for a government to raise the revenue. We are a collective society. Each one of us has control over some of the resources of this country. We all benefit to a tremendous degree because of our government. As a citizen who receives benefits from the government, it is our duty to pay taxes. This is not theft.
I don't understand your point. All I am dong is pointing out what I perceive to be unjust.....the poor man becomes even poorer when a life threatning illness hits. The middle class and up man will most likely be covered by insurance and will not be out a lot of money when a life threatning illness hits him. I am not necessarily proposing universal heath care for everything, but I do think the government (really society as a whole) has a duty to take care of the under privileged of society.
We currently have people in England moving to Scotland as we offer the full cancer treatments and England doesn't... which is fucked up but there you go.
In the cases that it happens, yes it is ironic. However, plenty of people will vote for higher taxes for schools, militaries, health care, etc. The problem is not found in the irony or lack thereof....the problem is found in the mindset of these slavedrivers who will abdicate the resposibilities their own moral codes demand and force them onto others. It's disgusting.
If you want universal health care, become a doctor and set your prices as low as you wish.
God I hate this issue........
But you missed one bit. This man doesn't need anything. He always has the option to die.
what makes you think that wait times are so much less in the US? fact is they're just as long except when it comes to a very few non-emergent services.
it's the same deal if you move to another city inthe US, there are many areas of the US where it's impossible to get a family physican, especially in rural areas. these doctor shortages are fueled by the insurance companys that are stripping the DR.s ability to run a practice after paying the outrageous malpratice insurance premiums.
angels share laughter
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No I don't. Neither do you, since you likely support higher taxes for the rich or free health care for the poor.
Sigh....
Health care cannot be a right unless you have a right to my body. Do you?
To protect the rights of the people, not "look out for their best interest". Let me explain to you the insanity of the above statement:
Universal Health Care is not in my best interest. I am a person. I live in this country. Will you now abandon it, or will you amend your belief that the duty of government is to look out for the best interests of some of the people?
That should take you back to your first question.
You've strung together some facts or quasi-facts here without any relation to each other. Yes, illness can hit anyone. And yes, we do live in this world with other people in a society. No, we cannot function very well without other people.
Now, how does this give you the right to force me to pay for your health care? Can I not just use these same facts to then say that you have the obligation to build me a palace? Or maybe buy me a Porsche???
What resources??? Is granite going to cure your cancer? No. A doctor will, using treatments and medicines invented by a person.
If all you need are non-human "resources", knock yourself out. But you need more than that. You need my labor. You need the brilliance of people other than yourself. You can either trade for it, or you can steal it. Make your choice, but don't lie about it.
Stop asking "shoulds" about "we". There is no should for "we". There is a "should" for you, and a "should" for me. Both of those shoulds are dictated by our individual moral codes. If you think you should be providing health care for the poor, then do it. What does it matter what I'm doing?
Please sell your fear elsewhere.
Because it's expropriation against the will of the owner at the point of a gun. That's the essence of theft. If taxation were optional, then it would be an exchange.
It is no more your "duty" to pay taxes than it is your "duty" to let me steal into your home at night, tie you up, and collect whatever belongings you have that I may like. And this is not the only way for a government to raise revenue. Governments should raise revenue the way all people raise revenue: through the exchange of services for value.
There is no injustice in a sick man not receiving treatment. No human being owes a sick man treatment, by default. To treat a sick man while receiving nothing in return is charity, and charity can be a wonderful thing.
You speak of "duty" as if you can simply define it for everyone. That is the height of arrogance and injustice. You have no right to tell me what my "duty" is unless you're willing to grant that same right to me.
So, tell me, will you let me decide for you what your duties are?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
He does have that option. Perhaps I could advocate for "Universal Death", since everyone here seems to be in the business of dictating "solutions" for people. I guess the only question left is which sector of society I'll force to be executioners.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but you don't currently have that right. Start a petition, or a vote drive. Maybe you could get some politicians on your side, get a law passed, you know.
Me? I'll be advocating Universal Healthcare. Chances are neither of us will get what we want. But if I were a betting man, I'd place it on me.
Didn't know it was up to me entirely...he gets treatment...you pay for it.
Problem solved.
I suppose it is, yes. Perhaps "Universal Murder" would have been the better wording. But that probably won't fly with the voters. How about "Universal Temporal Liberation"???
Me too. Universal health care will be in place here within the next 15 years.
Hehe...finally some straight talk on this issue.
so according to you the rich deserve better health care because they can afford it. how is the opportunity still there if one can't pay for it?
angels share laughter
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Colon cancer