Why does this happen?

JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
edited July 2008 in A Moving Train
'Valley of Failure' murder-suicide: father and three children found dead

The Sydney Morning Herald
Les Kennedy
June 27, 2008 - 5:00PM


A 44-year-old father and three children have been found dead in a suspected murder-suicide in a car on an "old hippy commune'' in a remote bush property 50 kilometres west of Eden after police were called to the scene by a neighbour.

The children were a girl and a boy, aged 5 and 7 respectively, and a boy aged 18 months.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/into-the-wild-horror/2008/06/27/1214472734807.html

I really want someone to explain this to me so I get it because it keeps happening and I really don't understand why.
NOPE!!!

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Comments

  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I don't think it can be explained using logic, which is unfortunately lacking in these tragedies.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    I don't think it can be explained using logic, which is unfortunately lacking in these tragedies.

    No perhaps not, but sometimes I can see the reasons you know? Not agree with them but see how it was for someone and why it was "necessary" in their mind for the children to join them but more often than not I don't understand it at all.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Surely someone has a theory on this?

    I'd really like to hear it.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Biggest WaveBiggest Wave Posts: 686
    Jeanie wrote:
    Surely someone has a theory on this?

    I'd really like to hear it.

    Yeah. Some people are just nuts.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    well i didn't need to see the photo of the family :(

    Police say the children's mother has been found safe and has been living in Bega.

    she left him....he's pissed....he's depressed....he thinks "fuck you i'll take the things you love the most"


    really jeanie, i don't think anyone can really explain what happens in someone's mind for them to do this
  • Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • kcherubkcherub Posts: 961
    In 2001, my sister (step) and nephew were shot and killed by her husband. He also shot himself and died. They were separated at the time, and had just gone home to collect some personal items and my nephew's asthma medication. She had requested a police escort, but they didn't provide them. Whatever. A friend and his son were also with them--the friend leapt out of a plate glass window and the son was waiting in the car. Some saving grace that they survived.

    They found that he had transferred all of his savings to his daughter (not my sister's) and changed his life insurance beneficiary in the months prior. He had also disconnected the garage door opener so that it wouldn't open. My nephew was killed in the garage, after (apparently) trying to get out of the house that way. He also had compiled a book of rants (entitled "The Book of Evil") and raves he left lying on the bed. So, he didn't just "explode".

    He was just a nut case--creepy to begin with. I was in shock when it happened, but he was one of those people...it was clearer after it happened. Hindsight and all that. Total control freak--had a bronze plaque on the front door that said, "please take off your shoes" and wouldn't out of his sight for fear that they might touch something. Sheesh.

    They were both successful, and ran a recruiting business. My nephew was a sweet kid--smart and respectful. Anyhoo, that is the million $ question--WHY? In his case, he had serious issues--I have (ashamed to say) wondered why he didn't just off himself? There seemed to be a rash of these types of murder-suicides (in Garland, Texas and the surrounding areas) during that summer. Just sad.

    Sorry...this has gotten to be rambling. I have never written this down before, so I am not really sure what to say. I just wanted to say something. You never get over something like that.

    Take care,
    I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
  • kcherubkcherub Posts: 961
    Some people (I think) do this out of desperation.

    Sorry, I meant to say that before, but got caught up. :)
    I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    kcherub wrote:
    In 2001, my sister (step) and nephew were shot and killed by her husband. He also shot himself and died. They were separated at the time, and had just gone home to collect some personal items and my nephew's asthma medication. She had requested a police escort, but they didn't provide them. Whatever. A friend and his son were also with them--the friend leapt out of a plate glass window and the son was waiting in the car. Some saving grace that they survived.

    They found that he had transferred all of his savings to his daughter (not my sister's) and changed his life insurance beneficiary in the months prior. He had also disconnected the garage door opener so that it wouldn't open. My nephew was killed in the garage, after (apparently) trying to get out of the house that way. He also had compiled a book of rants (entitled "The Book of Evil") and raves he left lying on the bed. So, he didn't just "explode".

    He was just a nut case--creepy to begin with. I was in shock when it happened, but he was one of those people...it was clearer after it happened. Hindsight and all that. Total control freak--had a bronze plaque on the front door that said, "please take off your shoes" and wouldn't out of his sight for fear that they might touch something. Sheesh.

    They were both successful, and ran a recruiting business. My nephew was a sweet kid--smart and respectful. Anyhoo, that is the million $ question--WHY? In his case, he had serious issues--I have (ashamed to say) wondered why he didn't just off himself? There seemed to be a rash of these types of murder-suicides (in Garland, Texas and the surrounding areas) during that summer. Just sad.

    Sorry...this has gotten to be rambling. I have never written this down before, so I am not really sure what to say. I just wanted to say something. You never get over something like that.

    Take care,

    Oh! :( kcherub, I am so sorry. I never expected to hear from anyone that had experienced this so close. Just awful.

    I guess this is the bit I have trouble with too. If they want to take themselves out, well it's sad, but I can understand it well enough, but I don't understand why the children have to suffer as well. Even, and I know it's probably not right thinking on my part, but I even understand to some degree why they feel the need to take out the partner or former parter. It's not right but I can understand the motivation somewhat. Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past? It's not like it enrages me either just completely mystifies and distresses me.

    I am so very sorry that happened to your family.

    I hope you find some peace with it somehow and I have no idea how but I wish that for you very much.

    I find it distressing enough when it happens to strangers, I can't even begin to imagine how it must be for you and I'm so sorry that it has.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Yeah. Some people are just nuts.


    Ok, yes some people are just nuts but that's an oversimplification don't you think?

    In a lot of cases when these kinds of things happen people are surprised by just how "normal" the perpertrator was prior to the episode.

    You often hear that they were the least likely to do something like that.

    I'm just struggling with the amount of time, energy and effort that would have gone into planning something like that and why this man's "off" button didn't register at any point exactly what it is that he was planning to do. I mean it's not random, takes forethought.
    In the case of taking a current or previous partner with you well I can see how resentment and anger can factor into it. I'm just not getting, will probably never get how anyone could be that angry or resentful of their children.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    cutback wrote:
    well i didn't need to see the photo of the family :(

    Police say the children's mother has been found safe and has been living in Bega.

    she left him....he's pissed....he's depressed....he thinks "fuck you i'll take the things you love the most"


    really jeanie, i don't think anyone can really explain what happens in someone's mind for them to do this

    Yeah, I know, but I'm trying to understand it better because every time it happens, and it seems to be happening increasingly more often, it just totals me. And I wish the shrinks understood it better, that people were able to be more aware of the signs and signals to stop it happening. Educate people on how this works so that people are more aware. It really needs to stop happening. It should never have happened, let alone happen again, but it will.
    I just wish I could know now before so I could stop it.

    Maybe it's the things that is the problem? I dunno but I think you're right, some men do see it as taking the things you love the most and they're not things they're people. :(
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.

    Too much shit for people to handle I get but inflicting shit on someone else as the last thing you do in this life, I don't get. :(
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • kcherubkcherub Posts: 961
    Jeanie wrote:
    Oh! :( kcherub, I am so sorry. I never expected to hear from anyone that had experienced this so close. Just awful.

    I guess this is the bit I have trouble with too. If they want to take themselves out, well it's sad, but I can understand it well enough, but I don't understand why the children have to suffer as well. Even, and I know it's probably not right thinking on my part, but I even understand to some degree why they feel the need to take out the partner or former parter. It's not right but I can understand the motivation somewhat. Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past? It's not like it enrages me either just completely mystifies and distresses me.

    I am so very sorry that happened to your family.

    I hope you find some peace with it somehow and I have no idea how but I wish that for you very much.

    I find it distressing enough when it happens to strangers, I can't even begin to imagine how it must be for you and I'm so sorry that it has.

    Thanks, Jeanie. :)

    I am with on that--I feel sympathy for people who feel like harming themselves, but when you take others "with you"...it's just cruel and unjust.

    Take care,
    I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
  • kcherubkcherub Posts: 961
    Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.

    The Benoits lived just about a mile away from us. It was just madness when that happened. People actually came to have their picture taken in front of their house--and I am not talking about Benoit fans who were "mourning".

    It was crazy.

    Take care,
    I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
  • Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Jeanie wrote:
    'Valley of Failure' murder-suicide: father and three children found dead

    The Sydney Morning Herald
    Les Kennedy
    June 27, 2008 - 5:00PM


    A 44-year-old father and three children have been found dead in a suspected murder-suicide in a car on an "old hippy commune'' in a remote bush property 50 kilometres west of Eden after police were called to the scene by a neighbour.

    The children were a girl and a boy, aged 5 and 7 respectively, and a boy aged 18 months.



    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/into-the-wild-horror/2008/06/27/1214472734807.html

    I really want someone to explain this to me so I get it because it keeps happening and I really don't understand why.
    Maybe because his wife or ex-wife is a fucking cunt and he can't deal with it anymore no matter how hard he tries? I'm not defending the guy but that's a likely reason. And maybe he doesn't want them to have to grow up w/o a dad...or maybe he doesn't want to leave them with a cunt of a mom.
  • kcherubkcherub Posts: 961
    Maybe because his wife or ex-wife is a fucking cunt and he can't deal with it anymore no matter how hard he tries? I'm not defending the guy but that's a likely reason. And maybe he doesn't want them to have to grow up w/o a dad...or maybe he doesn't want to leave them with a cunt of a mom.

    Lots of women (ex-wives, girlfriends, etc.) could be called c&*ts, but 99% of the men that they were involved with don't end up killing themselves, their children, or the women. Yes, I know you weren't defending him, and just making a point...

    So, I guess I can conclude that the men are either a) mentally unstable, b) desperate, or c) bastards? Women kill their children, too, but usually not in murder-suicides and rarely kill the man at the same time. I can almost understand being so angry with a spouse, significant other, etc., but the children really get to me. Like everyone else, I am sure.

    It's a frickin' insane.

    Take care,
    I still want you all to "take care"--I am just damn tired of typing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kcherub#p/a/u/0/N-UQprRqSwo
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Jeanie wrote:
    Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past?

    I agree Jeanie, as a mother, I have the same question. I mean, it is ingrained as a parent to protect your child from harm. As you can probably tell, I have no answer for you. :(

    Edit: kcherub, my condolences for your loss. I can't imagine going through something like you did.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • baraka wrote:
    I agree Jeanie, as a mother, I have the same question. I mean, it is ingrained as a parent to protect your child from harm. As you can probably tell, I have no answer for you. :(

    Edit: kcherub, my condolences for your loss. I can't imagine going through something like you did.

    I agree, as a mother it is ingrained to protect your children. It's an emotional, physical and hormonal response thats established at birth. Take any of those factors away though, such as interference with the hormone response due to a c-section and the risk for post-natal depression start to factor in. In the case of women who have murdered their children, more often than not, post natal depression and the more severe post natal psychosis play a role. In the case of a father though, he doesn't have the same programming. He witnesses the birth, but doesn't experience it so the physiological events that happen with a woman are not present in a man.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    A cousin of mine threw herself and her young children off a cliff, many years ago. Fuck knows why.
  • I guess thats just one of those things you can't explain about the human psyche.
    "I feel the same way about disco as I do about herpes." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, 1977
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    the human mind can be a fragile thing. maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's true. i think that the potential to kill lies within all of us. i think we have to examine ourselves and our societies to prevent suicide/murder/war.
  • Kenny Olav wrote:
    the human mind can be a fragile thing. maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's true. i think that the potential to kill lies within all of us. i think we have to examine ourselves and our societies to prevent suicide/murder/war.
    This is very true. Your mind can be so skewed by things that have happened to you, or as some people say your mind has fallen to the product of your environment. It just depends, but some people can be extremely influenced by a very small matter, and pretty much make a mountain out of a mole hill about it, and others are just the opposite, so you never really know I guess unless you ARE that person.
    "I feel the same way about disco as I do about herpes." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, 1977
  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    A cousin of mine threw herself and her young children off a cliff, many years ago. Fuck knows why.
    :( sorry... and to you kcherub.

    This is something I've often wondered and think I had a thread a long time ago... there's been a spate of 'familicides' in Ireland over the past few years and it really defies belief.

    I don't know why but my heart goes out to the dad who jumped off a hotel balcony in a fit of rage with his two kids... his son died, he and his daughter survived. I know my sympathy should not be with him... but if people are capable of doing something like that in a moment of madness... what sort of thoughts are you left to live with? Since all of his suicide attempts since have been stopped. I don't think there is any point forcing someone like him to live.
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    Jeanie wrote:
    I really want someone to explain this to me so I get it because it keeps happening and I really don't understand why.
    Jeanie, i don't understand either. what is going on back home :(
    this is becoming an all to often event. This time a grandpa kills his wife, 2 grand kids and also tries to kill his daughter?? No one ever knows what goes on in the head of people that do things like this. But his grandkids??? his daughter was a police officer, left the kids with them while she was working. jesus christ.
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=589359

    Edit: The article has been updated to say that the grandpa got depressed recently because a few years ago his son comitted suicide. Maybe the answer lies in there somewhere. Very sad for all concerned.
  • Obsidian22Obsidian22 Posts: 298
    There isn't much I can say as to why people do the things they do, or hurt the ones they love. You of all the amazing pitters have a been a strength to me over the last 2 years.
    You have made me laugh and cry, but mostly laugh in the face of adversity. You know my story about my brother. He hanged himself on July 11, 2006 shortly after his wife left him with my 2 nieces. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't thank "the Universe" for sparing their lives. My brother had many drug and depression issues. I loved him, but he also wasn't "right "in the head for a long time.( from his work related accident). I still cannot get over the tragic events. I am not sure I am supposed to. I will say this though, living, loving and breathing is all I care to do fully.
    Try and be strong and not get too emotionally involved. Our hearts are full of compassion, and that is all that counts. Share your love and laughter. GO and visit your new neice. If there is anything more life affirming it's you rnew little sweety. Love you!
    Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's Soul remains Unawakened.
    Anatole France
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    kcherub wrote:
    Thanks, Jeanie. :)

    I am with on that--I feel sympathy for people who feel like harming themselves, but when you take others "with you"...it's just cruel and unjust.

    Take care,

    I agree, but it happens and seemingly with alarming regularity. Depression and suicidal tendencies I understand but it's the manifestation of this homicidal rage in some people that I don't understand. Trying to put myself in their shoes, I wonder all the time why they don't just take themselves out and be done with it. I mean it's sad that people do that, turn their anger inward and harm themselves but I don't understand this outward rage, this desire to kill others if you're going to end it for yourself anyway.

    **sigh** It's just so sad K. So very sad and I'm sorry that you've had to experience it in such a personal way.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    baraka wrote:
    I agree Jeanie, as a mother, I have the same question. I mean, it is ingrained as a parent to protect your child from harm. As you can probably tell, I have no answer for you. :(

    Edit: kcherub, my condolences for your loss. I can't imagine going through something like you did.

    That's ok baraka, I understand. And I agree that mostly for people their nurture and protect instinct always kicks in, I just really want to know how or why it doesn't so spectatularly badly for some people sometimes. I wonder what the process is. How the neurotransmitters operate. WISH that someone was able to scientifically explain it to me because I hope with insight that we can eventually stop this ever happening again. Then I wonder if it's so hardwired into all of us and only randomness that makes it present itself.
    I don't know. Ryan would know or have a theory at least.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    A cousin of mine threw herself and her young children off a cliff, many years ago. Fuck knows why.

    Oh Fins. :( That's horrible. I'm sorry.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    the human mind can be a fragile thing. maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's true. i think that the potential to kill lies within all of us. i think we have to examine ourselves and our societies to prevent suicide/murder/war.

    I agree Kenny. I think this does lie within all of us, I just wonder why it manifests in some and not others.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • JeanieJeanie Posts: 9,446
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Jeanie, i don't understand either. what is going on back home :(
    this is becoming an all to often event. This time a grandpa kills his wife, 2 grand kids and also tries to kill his daughter?? No one ever knows what goes on in the head of people that do things like this. But his grandkids??? his daughter was a police officer, left the kids with them while she was working. jesus christ.
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=589359

    Edit: The article has been updated to say that the grandpa got depressed recently because a few years ago his son comitted suicide. Maybe the answer lies in there somewhere. Very sad for all concerned.


    Hi gurl. :)

    I was coming back into this thread this morning to post about this because it's just blown the top of my head off with incomprehension. :confused:
    I simply cannot fathom this one at all. It just makes me so very sad and confused and angry all at the same time. :(
    I don't understand why the loss of one child would then cause a depressive episode so severe that you had to inflict murderous intent on other loved ones. Just takes my breath away.
    They're saying he took off to Hay, booked himself into a motel, cool as a cucumber, ordered bacon and eggs for breakfast and was possibly on his way to Newcastle to finish off his son in law. :eek:
    The reports coming out are just horrific. Especially the children. It's enough to make you weep really.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
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