Why does this happen?

Jeanie

'Valley of Failure' murder-suicide: father and three children found dead

The Sydney Morning Herald
Les Kennedy
June 27, 2008 - 5:00PM

A 44-year-old father and three children have been found dead in a suspected murder-suicide in a car on an "old hippy commune'' in a remote bush property 50 kilometres west of Eden after police were called to the scene by a neighbour.

The children were a girl and a boy, aged 5 and 7 respectively, and a boy aged 18 months.


http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/into-the-wild-horror/2008/06/27/1214472734807.html

I really want someone to explain this to me so I get it because it keeps happening and I really don't understand why.

blackredyellow

I don't think it can be explained using logic, which is unfortunately lacking in these tragedies.

Jeanie

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't think it can be explained using logic, which is unfortunately lacking in these tragedies.

No perhaps not, but sometimes I can see the reasons you know? Not agree with them but see how it was for someone and why it was "necessary" in their mind for the children to join them but more often than not I don't understand it at all.

Jeanie

Surely someone has a theory on this?

I'd really like to hear it.

Biggest Wave

Jeanie wrote:

Surely someone has a theory on this?

I'd really like to hear it.

Yeah. Some people are just nuts.

norm

well i didn't need to see the photo of the family :(

Police say the children's mother has been found safe and has been living in Bega.

she left him....he's pissed....he's depressed....he thinks "fuck you i'll take the things you love the most"


really jeanie, i don't think anyone can really explain what happens in someone's mind for them to do this

Rhinocerous Surprise

Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.

kcherub

In 2001, my sister (step) and nephew were shot and killed by her husband. He also shot himself and died. They were separated at the time, and had just gone home to collect some personal items and my nephew's asthma medication. She had requested a police escort, but they didn't provide them. Whatever. A friend and his son were also with them--the friend leapt out of a plate glass window and the son was waiting in the car. Some saving grace that they survived.

They found that he had transferred all of his savings to his daughter (not my sister's) and changed his life insurance beneficiary in the months prior. He had also disconnected the garage door opener so that it wouldn't open. My nephew was killed in the garage, after (apparently) trying to get out of the house that way. He also had compiled a book of rants (entitled "The Book of Evil") and raves he left lying on the bed. So, he didn't just "explode".

He was just a nut case--creepy to begin with. I was in shock when it happened, but he was one of those people...it was clearer after it happened. Hindsight and all that. Total control freak--had a bronze plaque on the front door that said, "please take off your shoes" and wouldn't out of his sight for fear that they might touch something. Sheesh.

They were both successful, and ran a recruiting business. My nephew was a sweet kid--smart and respectful. Anyhoo, that is the million $ question--WHY? In his case, he had serious issues--I have (ashamed to say) wondered why he didn't just off himself? There seemed to be a rash of these types of murder-suicides (in Garland, Texas and the surrounding areas) during that summer. Just sad.

Sorry...this has gotten to be rambling. I have never written this down before, so I am not really sure what to say. I just wanted to say something. You never get over something like that.

Take care,

kcherub

Some people (I think) do this out of desperation.

Sorry, I meant to say that before, but got caught up.

Jeanie

kcherub wrote:

In 2001, my sister (step) and nephew were shot and killed by her husband. He also shot himself and died. They were separated at the time, and had just gone home to collect some personal items and my nephew's asthma medication. She had requested a police escort, but they didn't provide them. Whatever. A friend and his son were also with them--the friend leapt out of a plate glass window and the son was waiting in the car. Some saving grace that they survived.

They found that he had transferred all of his savings to his daughter (not my sister's) and changed his life insurance beneficiary in the months prior. He had also disconnected the garage door opener so that it wouldn't open. My nephew was killed in the garage, after (apparently) trying to get out of the house that way. He also had compiled a book of rants (entitled "The Book of Evil") and raves he left lying on the bed. So, he didn't just "explode".

He was just a nut case--creepy to begin with. I was in shock when it happened, but he was one of those people...it was clearer after it happened. Hindsight and all that. Total control freak--had a bronze plaque on the front door that said, "please take off your shoes" and wouldn't out of his sight for fear that they might touch something. Sheesh.

They were both successful, and ran a recruiting business. My nephew was a sweet kid--smart and respectful. Anyhoo, that is the million $ question--WHY? In his case, he had serious issues--I have (ashamed to say) wondered why he didn't just off himself? There seemed to be a rash of these types of murder-suicides (in Garland, Texas and the surrounding areas) during that summer. Just sad.

Sorry...this has gotten to be rambling. I have never written this down before, so I am not really sure what to say. I just wanted to say something. You never get over something like that.

Take care,

Oh! :( kcherub, I am so sorry. I never expected to hear from anyone that had experienced this so close. Just awful.

I guess this is the bit I have trouble with too. If they want to take themselves out, well it's sad, but I can understand it well enough, but I don't understand why the children have to suffer as well. Even, and I know it's probably not right thinking on my part, but I even understand to some degree why they feel the need to take out the partner or former parter. It's not right but I can understand the motivation somewhat. Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past? It's not like it enrages me either just completely mystifies and distresses me.

I am so very sorry that happened to your family.

I hope you find some peace with it somehow and I have no idea how but I wish that for you very much.

I find it distressing enough when it happens to strangers, I can't even begin to imagine how it must be for you and I'm so sorry that it has.

Jeanie

Biggest Wave wrote:

Yeah. Some people are just nuts.

Ok, yes some people are just nuts but that's an oversimplification don't you think?

In a lot of cases when these kinds of things happen people are surprised by just how "normal" the perpertrator was prior to the episode.

You often hear that they were the least likely to do something like that.

I'm just struggling with the amount of time, energy and effort that would have gone into planning something like that and why this man's "off" button didn't register at any point exactly what it is that he was planning to do. I mean it's not random, takes forethought.
In the case of taking a current or previous partner with you well I can see how resentment and anger can factor into it. I'm just not getting, will probably never get how anyone could be that angry or resentful of their children.

Jeanie

cutback wrote:

well i didn't need to see the photo of the family :(

Police say the children's mother has been found safe and has been living in Bega.

she left him....he's pissed....he's depressed....he thinks "fuck you i'll take the things you love the most"


really jeanie, i don't think anyone can really explain what happens in someone's mind for them to do this

Yeah, I know, but I'm trying to understand it better because every time it happens, and it seems to be happening increasingly more often, it just totals me. And I wish the shrinks understood it better, that people were able to be more aware of the signs and signals to stop it happening. Educate people on how this works so that people are more aware. It really needs to stop happening. It should never have happened, let alone happen again, but it will.
I just wish I could know now before so I could stop it.

Maybe it's the things that is the problem? I dunno but I think you're right, some men do see it as taking the things you love the most and they're not things they're people. :(

Jeanie

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.

Too much shit for people to handle I get but inflicting shit on someone else as the last thing you do in this life, I don't get. :(

kcherub

Jeanie wrote:

Oh! :( kcherub, I am so sorry. I never expected to hear from anyone that had experienced this so close. Just awful.

I guess this is the bit I have trouble with too. If they want to take themselves out, well it's sad, but I can understand it well enough, but I don't understand why the children have to suffer as well. Even, and I know it's probably not right thinking on my part, but I even understand to some degree why they feel the need to take out the partner or former parter. It's not right but I can understand the motivation somewhat. Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past? It's not like it enrages me either just completely mystifies and distresses me.

I am so very sorry that happened to your family.

I hope you find some peace with it somehow and I have no idea how but I wish that for you very much.

I find it distressing enough when it happens to strangers, I can't even begin to imagine how it must be for you and I'm so sorry that it has.

Thanks, Jeanie.

I am with on that--I feel sympathy for people who feel like harming themselves, but when you take others "with you"...it's just cruel and unjust.

Take care,

kcherub

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Ugh. I just got flashbacks to Chris Benoit going batshit. :( I don't think any one theory is gonna sum up why people snap... Pressure, meds... there's just too much shit in today's world for some people to handle, I guess.

The Benoits lived just about a mile away from us. It was just madness when that happened. People actually came to have their picture taken in front of their house--and I am not talking about Benoit fans who were "mourning".

It was crazy.

Take care,

Eliot Rosewater

Jeanie wrote:

'Valley of Failure' murder-suicide: father and three children found dead

The Sydney Morning Herald
Les Kennedy
June 27, 2008 - 5:00PM

A 44-year-old father and three children have been found dead in a suspected murder-suicide in a car on an "old hippy commune'' in a remote bush property 50 kilometres west of Eden after police were called to the scene by a neighbour.

The children were a girl and a boy, aged 5 and 7 respectively, and a boy aged 18 months.


http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/into-the-wild-horror/2008/06/27/1214472734807.html

I really want someone to explain this to me so I get it because it keeps happening and I really don't understand why.

Maybe because his wife or ex-wife is a fucking cunt and he can't deal with it anymore no matter how hard he tries? I'm not defending the guy but that's a likely reason. And maybe he doesn't want them to have to grow up w/o a dad...or maybe he doesn't want to leave them with a cunt of a mom.

kcherub

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Maybe because his wife or ex-wife is a fucking cunt and he can't deal with it anymore no matter how hard he tries? I'm not defending the guy but that's a likely reason. And maybe he doesn't want them to have to grow up w/o a dad...or maybe he doesn't want to leave them with a cunt of a mom.

Lots of women (ex-wives, girlfriends, etc.) could be called c&*ts, but 99% of the men that they were involved with don't end up killing themselves, their children, or the women. Yes, I know you weren't defending him, and just making a point...

So, I guess I can conclude that the men are either a) mentally unstable, b) desperate, or c) bastards? Women kill their children, too, but usually not in murder-suicides and rarely kill the man at the same time. I can almost understand being so angry with a spouse, significant other, etc., but the children really get to me. Like everyone else, I am sure.

It's a frickin' insane.

Take care,

baraka

Jeanie wrote:

Perhaps there is just something about killing one's own children that I cannot get past?

I agree Jeanie, as a mother, I have the same question. I mean, it is ingrained as a parent to protect your child from harm. As you can probably tell, I have no answer for you. :(

Edit: kcherub, my condolences for your loss. I can't imagine going through something like you did.

Medicated-Genius

baraka wrote:

I agree Jeanie, as a mother, I have the same question. I mean, it is ingrained as a parent to protect your child from harm. As you can probably tell, I have no answer for you. :(

Edit: kcherub, my condolences for your loss. I can't imagine going through something like you did.

I agree, as a mother it is ingrained to protect your children. It's an emotional, physical and hormonal response thats established at birth. Take any of those factors away though, such as interference with the hormone response due to a c-section and the risk for post-natal depression start to factor in. In the case of women who have murdered their children, more often than not, post natal depression and the more severe post natal psychosis play a role. In the case of a father though, he doesn't have the same programming. He witnesses the birth, but doesn't experience it so the physiological events that happen with a woman are not present in a man.

FinsburyParkCarrots

A cousin of mine threw herself and her young children off a cliff, many years ago. Fuck knows why.

manipulatedliving

I guess thats just one of those things you can't explain about the human psyche.