John Howard sends police and troops to indigenous communities

Byrnzie

Jeanie wrote:

How many people does that actually equate to Byrnzie?
And where did you meet them?

Well, somewhere between 10 and 20 Australians. Mostly all in England. I've also met some great Aussies. All I'm saying is that I've heard more Aussies than not speak of Aboriginals as being like scum. After a while this gives you a certain perspective on things. Obviously not all Aussies are like that, But I've been lead by experience to believe that a lot of them are.

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

I base it on about 90% of Australians that I've met, and listened to. I said not all though. But more so than not, when Aboriginals have been mentioned I've invariably heard outright racist comments about them.

what were those comments, if you can remember them still.

Jeanie

Byrnzie wrote:

Well, somewhere between 10 and 20 Australians. Mostly all in England. I've also met some great Aussies. All I'm saying is that I've heard more Aussies than not speak of Aboriginals as being like scum. After a while this gives you a certain perspective on things. Obviously not all Aussies are like that, But I've been lead by experience to believe that a lot of them are.

Ok, well I'm sorry that has been your experience.
I could well use the argument that many of the English that I have met have also been racist. I did find it very interesting when I was in England the number of people who spoke of the Irish in much the same derogatory terms as I have heard some Aussies speak of the Aboriginals. But that was a long time ago and I don't see it as indicative of all English people.
Racism is in every culture, in every country as far as I can see. I have been subject to it myself on my travels.
Certainly there is racism in this country. And as far as I can see it is adopted regularly by Government to shape policy. It is certainly being utilized in this instance in my opinion. But I am also heartened by the number of people who are appalled by this current situation and can see it for what it is.

lucylespian

Did it occur to anyone that police action in these communitities is gonna unearth a lot of criminal charges,, that no-one wants, and maybe that's why ther is so much resistance to police going in big time ????
Pathetic that some many people are prepared to shove their heads in the sand on this issue and sacrifice yet another generation of kids to satisy their selfish political agendas.
The hands -off approach has yielded this situation. The Howad Govt did not time the release of the report that triggered all this.

catefrances

lucylespian wrote:

Did it occur to anyone that police action in these communitities is gonna unearth a lot of criminal charges,, that no-one wants, and maybe that's why ther is so much resistance to police going in big time ????
Pathetic that some many people are prepared to shove their heads in the sand on this issue and sacrifice yet another generation of kids to satisy their selfish political agendas.
The hands -off approach has yielded this situation. The Howad Govt did not time the release of the report that triggered all this.

you voted for howard didn't you lucy?

i'm only joking. but i have to admit it seems that you have way more faith in our current federal government than i do.

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Did it occur to anyone that police action in these communitities is gonna unearth a lot of criminal charges,, that no-one wants, and maybe that's why ther is so much resistance to police going in big time ????
Pathetic that some many people are prepared to shove their heads in the sand on this issue and sacrifice yet another generation of kids to satisy their selfish political agendas.
The hands -off approach has yielded this situation. The Howad Govt did not time the release of the report that triggered all this.

lucy I'm quite sure they will unearth a lot of criminal behaviours and probably lay charges. And that's a good thing. But these people had a whole generation STOLEN from them. They've had their lands taken. This government for the whole of its time in parliament has been well aware that the indegenous population is living in third world conditions. All of us in this country have known that there is huge problems in our aboriginal communities. And no the government didn't write the report. But they've seen many others over the years and done nothing.

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Johnny or his government.
But I have a real problem with the timing and the method.


Yes, something needs to be done, but something has needed to be done for decades. The current government disbanded ATSIC which I don't dispute was possibly a good thing but the issues facing these people still existed at that point and no replacement or alternative was offered then. One has to wonder what has suddenly motivated him. Why now?

And it wouldn't matter if a Labor government, a Greens government, a Democrats government, any government had pulled this stunt in the lead up to the election, I would have a problem with it. It has some sinister implications for the rest of us at the very least.

YES, absolutely something needs to be done, but this is setting a nasty precedent and I am cynical about the motivations and the outcomes to be honest. No one would be happier than I if this is settled successfully.
But I don't think that's what's going to happen.
I'm quite sure that we won't know the true outcome of this for years to come but I'm more than sure that this is not being motivated by concern or for altruistic reasons.

A Surprise Left

This seems like a really difficult subject to deal with. On the one hand the timing of the plan does seem highly cynical and I'm not sure forcing people to stop drinking alcohol or watch x-rated porn is the solution. I do however support the stopping of their welfare payments if they don't send their kids to school. I would extend that to the whole population who don't really endeavour to get a job but that is a whole other subject on its own. The aborignal people themselves in these communities have to take responsiblity for their own lives and communities.

Byrnzie

IndianSummer wrote:

what were those comments, if you can remember them still.

All kinds of stuff about them being ugly, scroungers, drunks, rapists, thieves, violent, e.t.c.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

All kinds of stuff about them being ugly, scroungers, drunks, rapists, thieves, violent, e.t.c.

OMG!! that just about describes the entire first fleet of white settlers, free and otherwise.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

OMG!! that just about describes the entire first fleet of white settlers, free and otherwise.

Who where mostly all English!

catefrances

Jeanie wrote:

Who where mostly all English!

bunch of crims. the lot of them those english.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

bunch of crims. the lot of them those english.

Well the poor were! Understandable really!

Jeanie

So we all seem to agree that something needs to be done.

And mostly it appears from what people have said here so far that we don't agree so much with the governments actions.

So, I'm curious, what does everyone think we can do?

DinghyDog

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A Surprise Left

DinghyDog wrote:

i agree something has to be done.

but i believe change has to come form within those communities.

I am an immigrant to australia, originally from south africa. it strikes me that aboriginal peoples have almost no pride in who they are, and take to being the victims very easily.

I have no idea how it's going to happen but they need to realise the only way things are going to improve and stay improved is by change coming form within.

Africans in south africa have suffered a lot yet it seems to me that they are such a proud nation(s) that they can come back from anything.

also i'm a firm believer in free welfare being A Bad Thing. If a man earns a dollar he thinks twice about how he's going to spend it because he will need to work to make it back. if he gets given a dollar he blows it.

there are positive role models among the native community such as michael long and noel pearson. however i don't think its racist to say there are massive problems in the native community, simply stating facts. i don't think the government can be blamed for the fact that they are over-represented in jails, have a much shorter lifespan and many live in third world conditions. the english did treat them terribly when they like others before them had their lands taken from them. however i think its about time we moved past discussions of saying "sorry" (not sure what that is accomplish anyway) and help them improve their daily lot.....and this in the main requires them wanting that help. if there were more michael long's among the native community it would be a very good thing.

IndianSummer

Byrnzie wrote:

All kinds of stuff about them being ugly, scroungers, drunks, rapists, thieves, violent, e.t.c.

but nothing about them being a non-white/non-european people right??

then its not really racist.

lucylespian

catefrances wrote:

OMG!! that just about describes the entire first fleet of white settlers, free and otherwise.

This actually explains a lot IMO.

The whites who initially associatated and mingled with indigineuous Australins in teh early days were hardly teh cream of society. It is possibly relevant to explain some behaviours.