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Heads up. Senate meeting today.

bingerbinger Posts: 179
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
At 1:30 eastern. Watch or listen live at http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

I'll try to update speakers and what they are saying in this thread.

Oversight Meeting on Iraq War
Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) chairs a Senate Democratic Policy Cmte. meeting on the planning and conduct in the War in Iraq. Major General John R.S. Batiste, U.S. Army (Ret.) and other former military officers are scheduled to testify on lessons learned and corrections that should be made going forward.

It starts soon.
I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
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  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Hearing on conduct, planning and execution of the war in Iraq.

    Starting now.

    Senator Byron Dorgan Democrat ND Democratic Policy Cmte. chairman talking now

    3 witnesses to speak today.
    2 generals and a colonial

    Opening statements soon
    Congressman Jones from The House present
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Harry Reid, Dem - Nevada
    325 billion dollars
    2700+ dead
    Intelligence in US stated yesterday that Iraq war created a less safe world
    Talking about Bushes Platitudes

    This is historic. I hope you're listening
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Senator Durbin - Democrat Illinois

    Just said "This is a historic meeting"

    Sec of Def and Bush Adminisrtation failed to take necessary steps to secure the peace.
    2702 dead soldiers
    over 20,000 seriously wounded

    April, 2006 National Intel Estimate says US failed in Iraq to keep the world safe.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Representative Walter Jones Rep - NC

    Reading from article by Greg Newbold Time magazine article

    Rudyard Kipling epitaph of war "If any question why we died, tell them it was because our fathers lied."
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Senator Jeff Bingaman - Dem. NM
    quick opening statement

    Senator Charles Shumer Dem NY
    "If you're afraid to ask questions, If youre afraid to open debate...weather youre Dem of Rep, oversight is a congressional function...these are fundamental questions that relate to the future of this country...we have different views on foreign policy on this panel...I hope this hearing will be a wake up call for the members of congress... our country demands no less."
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    If the Dems can take control in November there will be many more and the watchdogs are going to start coming out of their cages no doubt.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    General John Batiste - 11-1-05 left military on principle after realizing he could do more for soldiers and their families out of uniform

    Bottom Line
    This is about accountability
    "Donald Rumsfield is an incompetent military leader...Browbeat subbordinates to serve his plan...allowed insurgency to take root and metasticise into what it is today...we were undermined from the beginning...troops are having to constantly reoccupy ground that was once secured..."

    Our congress shares the responsability in what is happening and not happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    What do we do now?

    Phone call... missed 1,2,3

    4th - we must rethink out Iraqi strategy.
    5th-fix interagency process of coordinating
    6th - serious about mending relationships with allies

    another phone call

    He is just slamming Rummy faster than I can type.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    Too bad 1/4 of 1% of the population is watching/listening to this.

    I hope the media runs with this instead of just a simple mention and move on to what hollywood couple is now on the rocks...
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • crittablescrittables Posts: 342
    Jammin909 wrote:
    Too bad 1/4 of 1% of the population is watching/listening to this.

    I hope the media runs with this instead of just a simple mention and move on to what hollywood couple is now on the rocks...


    btw, it's aaron carter and his now ex-fiance. apparently the love life of a teen pop star that's barely famous is headline news at cnn.co
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Major General Paul Eaton (ret.)

    -Wolfowotz withheld $243million. diverted it to build Iraqi police and did not listen to assessment by military leaders that they had lost 9 months.
    -Rummy failed to equip troops
    -Rumsfield has failed to adapt to the current situation
    -read QDR -
    Replace Sec of Defense with a proven leader.
    Calling for a New Sec. of Defense
    "We need a Manhattin Project"
    "we need a bipartisian commission. it is a interagency developmnet policy"


    (Sounds ominously like they want a draft)
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Colonial Thomas Hammas

    Focus on what we must to to acheive success
    Strategy as expressed by General Casey is solid. (I'll be looking that up"
    War in Iraq has made no effort to mobilize the support the US people
    Create unity of effort across all agencies
    President must use his force to... Fuck this was important

    Need to put personell on a war time footing. Advisory teams should be 50-60 per batallion instead of 10.

    Procurement
    1st IED in 2003.
    M117 Armored Security Vehicle. Pentagon only has 1000 of these. (Make 40-50 huge planes per year)
    Why are we having our soldiers use the same armour that was unsuccessful in 2003
    Failure to provide the best equipment
    Called for Rumsfield to step down.

    Hope you're all listening
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    binger wrote:
    (Sounds ominously like they want a draft)

    Good.

    I think seriously floating the idea of a draft would be a wake up call to many.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Q & A session
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    binger wrote:
    Q & A session

    See these generals testifying need to call out the generals who are still supporting Rumsfeld instead of skirting around it.

    Edit: The Colonel on board did saying there was a lack of senior leadership in the military.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • robbierobbie Posts: 883
    thanks for the heads up on this.... im about an hour late, but better late than never. this should be on all cable news networks, as well as nbc cbs and abc, i dont even get c-span 3, i have to watch it on my computer. do you think this will come and go with nobody being aware of it, or will this testimony lead the news for the next few months?
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Basically it is talking about increasing troops and how the congress stated that they provided all the troops that were requested. and the General says that they were told, there were no more troops. Then the Congress said that "we will provide all the troops that are asked for given the urgency of the situation" Paraphrased
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    13,000 Iraqis in Abu Ghraib and 99% were innocent who, when released will be permanent enemies of the US.

    -General Batiste
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    robbie wrote:
    thanks for the heads up on this.... im about an hour late, but better late than never. this should be on all cable news networks, as well as nbc cbs and abc, i dont even get c-span 3, i have to watch it on my computer. do you think this will come and go with nobody being aware of it, or will this testimony lead the news for the next few months?

    No shit. Exactly why you can't trust the mass media and need to put the time in researching to see the real picture.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Said that this will not work unless the President and the administration is willing to make the change in the last 2 years .

    General said there is a severe shortage of equipment and they have a shuttle crew that is bringing equipment back and forth to different battalions and soldiers that have no equipment to train on. Also insufficient personal and insufficient equipment to support the troops we already have.

    (Get ready for the milk tokens, gas rations.)

    "Plan for a minimum of at least a decade or longer. When we go in and secure an area, we have to stay. Otherwise when we pull out, all the people who helped us will die. Then if we go back, who will help us now?

    They now have 1/3 of the equipment they had when this war started.

    All paraphrased
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    AHAAAAAA!!!

    They just said "there is NO RATIONING in this country. We have done this before."
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Generals asked by congress,

    "How can we turn this over when we are all done with all these obsticles?"

    Reference to Jordanian flag with the 1 in it. says in Iraqis dont take the philosophy of Iraq 1st, we will not succeed.

    (Assume all I type is paraphrased)
    If we don't let Iraqis know that we will eventually leave and we wont be there indefinately, how will they want to stand with us?

    General's response.
    We have made it clear to the Iraqis that we are going to cut. We have not helped the Iraqis. We are sending a message to the Iraqui people that they are second class. Surprised the Iraqi people have not stood up more.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    binger wrote:
    General's response.
    We have made it clear to the Iraqis that we are going to cut. We have not helped the Iraqis. We are sending a message to the Iraqui people that they are second class. Surprised the Iraqi people have not stood up more.

    That was Colonol Hammas...
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Batiste says "Liars Figure and Figures Lie"

    General Eaton says "We all should read the book "The 1% Doctrine"

    The southern accent Congressman says "The mission should be more of Training the Iraqis insteadof trying to kill the insurgents"

    Now they are having audio difficulties
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Jammin909 wrote:
    That was Colonol Hammas...

    Thanks, I'm listening mostly but I can't go back and forth and see who's talking. I'm glad someone else is too because I could just be up here typing whatever and that gives this more validity. Feel free to add in more!

    Now general's are being asked if we keep a unified Iraq or split country.
    Answer:
    A civil war costs usually 10% of the population and if we try to initate splitting the country, than civil war would ensue and would not go well, but if they iniate splitting the country and we support them, it may go better.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Senator Jay Rockefeller Dem WV
    Asked
    What are the consequences on at world wide basis. Implications for our future?
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • robbierobbie Posts: 883
    gen. Batiste

    our world is much less safe today than before 9/11 we created this insurgency, we let it grow, we let it blossom
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    binger wrote:
    Thanks, I'm listening mostly but I can't go back and forth and see who's talking. I'm glad someone else is too because I could just be up here typing whatever and that gives this more validity. Feel free to add in more!

    Now general's are being asked if we keep a unified Iraq or split country.
    Answer:
    A civil war costs usually 10% of the population and if we try to initate splitting the country, than civil war would ensue and would not go well, but if they iniate splitting the country and we support them, it may go better.

    Paraphrased...

    "Baghdad has the largest Shi'ite and Sunni populations in Iraq so splitting the country would be incredibly difficult if not impossible"

    "and the Sunni side would turn into an Afghanistan on steriods in reference to the instability and rise of insurgents"

    Colonol Hammas
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    Also that we need to mobilize and win in Iraq nomatter what it takes because the alternative is too serious.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • bingerbinger Posts: 179
    On Reconstruction

    Batiste - "The rule of law does not exist in Iraq today."

    Hammas - As you build up areas of prosperity, that has to be done by Iraqi ministries with supervision. We dont give someone a bag of money and tell them to build a hospital without supervision.

    Sheumer - Thanking Generals and states "this is one of the most profound hearing he as been to in the many years in congress.
    I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn
  • robbierobbie Posts: 883
    it seems the people in the know are stating we will need to be in iraq for at LEAST another decade. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    my question is who is the WE that will be there for another decade? i cannot see too many people joining up to go over there. it seems the people that are real gung - ho for this nightmare are afraid to go there themselves, and you just cannot extend tours of duty for another decade. plus, W. has his itchy trigger finger on iran...... all this while North Korea stockpiles nukes. This president should hang for treason for this mess he lied us into. he has undermined the integrity, and the military capablitiyof the United States.
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