Chavez makes stocks drop

soulsinging

jeffbr wrote:

I'll directly respond to your point, then: people from all economic strata are in the market. Some are in it with $2,000 in a Charles Schwab account. Some are in it with their company's retirement plan. Some set aside 10% - 20% of their pay in a 401K plan that they administer or have someone else watch. Others have fortunes invested. There are plenty of non-wealthy people invested in the market. It is absolutely NOT a game for the rich only. Actually, it is not a game at all. It sounds to me like you have spent too much time squandering your part-time paychecks. I understand you're still a student, but you really need to start talking to someone about a financial plan as soon as you are ready to start your career.

ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

What a surprise: you guys are right wingers and you know something about the stock market!

Haha, we can't help loving the capitalist system. The stock market has made so many millionaires. God bless it.

at least one of you all is not trying to pretend the market is some sort of equalt opportunity utopia where anyone with $50 extra can make the american dream happen.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

bank accounts.

want to get a little more specific? a savings account making 2% ? unless you plan on living off your social security checks, you might want to reconsider your investment strategy

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

you've never seen that stat about the wealthiest 10% of this country owning 90% of the resources?

regardless of your financial savvy, yo've still never once responded to my argument. sure, you can make money in the stock market. the literal fact of that is indisputable. what i was challenging from moment one is why i should be shedding tears over poor verizon right now.

yea great and then you said the stock market is a scam. i'm trying to explain to you its not

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

want to get a little more specific? a savings account making 2% ? unless you plan on living off your social security checks, you might want to reconsider your investment strategy

sure. im a simple kinda guy. people all over this country manage to survive until death without going on welfare OR pumping money into the stock market. what are they doing?

and good job on responding to my real question about why i should give 2 shits what chavez does with his country's resources.

jeffbr

soulsinging wrote:

ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.

Honestly, I hope you do take the advice and have a plan. The ealier you start, the more compound interest will do the work for you.

As for your second statement, I wasn't running around like chicken little, but what Chavez did was thievery. He is a robber. Nothing more than a common looter. He isn't assuring that his country's assets stay in Venezuela, he's stealing other people's assets.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

yea great and then you said the stock market is a scam. i'm trying to explain to you its not

and i do think it's a scam. for the very reason that people such as you couldn't care less that the people of venezuela are starving as we leach all their resources into the US, as long as the investors holding stock in the companies doing it are making money. whatever, it isnt OUR country being abused. it's the classic us attitude. starving? dont care, it's your country not mine. violence and repression? who cares, not our country, not our problem. fucking with our money, stocks, and economy? sweet jesus, let's skin that motherfucker alive!

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.

It's not that simple, brother. His country's assets depend HEAVILY on foreign investment. When you nationalize foreign companies, you lose out on all foreign investment b/c foreign companies say "fuck you guys, I'm not doing business with you anymore."

Venezuela doesn't manufacture everything it consumes; therefore, it must import things. If Chavez nationalizes everything and "keeps his assets in Venezuela," Venezuelans will have a lower standard of living as a result. For things that they don't have a competitive advantage in, they will lose money in producing them.

In a global economy, government-run companies cannot compete with efficient conglomerates. Venezuela's experiment in socialism will end in failure for the Venezuelan people and the government - but the poor people will have a fraction of a better living and that's all they really care about. They could be living a lot better if their government allowed them a more free economy.

soulsinging

jeffbr wrote:

Honestly, I hope you do take the advice and have a plan. The ealier you start, the more compound interest will do the work for you.

As for your second statement, I wasn't running around like chicken little, but what Chavez did was thievery. He is a robber. Nothing more than a common looter. He isn't assuring that his country's assets stay in Venezuela, he's stealing other people's assets.

he's stealing AMERICANS' assets... assets they stole from venezuela before venezuela was even aware of what was being done to them. it's like selling a child a nickel for a dime becos it's bigger. we raped them and hijacked their economy. payback's a bitch.

jeffbr

soulsinging wrote:

he's stealing AMERICANS' assets...

I am happy that you at least agree that he is a looter. I don't see looting as a noble attribute. I also think Robin Hood was an asshole.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

It's not that simple, brother. His country's assets depend HEAVILY on foreign investment. When you nationalize foreign companies, you lose out on all foreign investment b/c foreign companies say "fuck you guys, I'm not doing business with you anymore."

Venezuela doesn't manufacture everything it consumes; therefore, it must import things. If Chavez nationalizes everything and "keeps his assets in Venezuela," Venezuelans will have a lower standard of living as a result. For things that they don't have a competitive advantage in, they will lose money in producing them.

In a global economy, government-run companies cannot compete with efficient conglomerates. Venezuela's experiment in socialism will end in failure for the Venezuelan people and the government - but the poor people will have a fraction of a better living and that's all they really care about. They could be living a lot better if their government allowed them a more free economy.

we shall see. im of the opinion a free economy means some people live a lot better and a whole lot more people live a lot worse. the top heavy free trade thing we've got going is going to end in disaster. maybe it will last longer. venezuela might fold in a decade... it might take the rest of us 100 years to start to topple. but we cannot maintain the kind of economy we're running right now. and by we i mean the world, not just the us.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

sure. im a simple kinda guy. people all over this country manage to survive until death without going on welfare OR pumping money into the stock market. what are they doing?

I bet you are, but guess what....this......

soulsinging
i fully intend to have plenty of money set aside for retirement AND for my children's college expenses.

will not be true. your a simple guy? ok how much is "plenty" of money. at your pace you will have enough money to eat and buy toilet paper. and no way will you be able to pay for your kids college. its impossible

soulsinging wrote:

and good job on responding to my real question about why i should give 2 shits what chavez does with his country's resources.

lol im not dodging this question, I thought you would take a hint that I dont give a flying fuck what you think about Chavez, Venezuela. verizon, or pizza. honestly, I dont care. Im talking about the stock market

soulsinging

jeffbr wrote:

I am happy that you at least agree that he is a looter. I don't see looting as a noble attribute. I also think Robin Hood was an asshole.

which is why i think the stock market is a crock of shit. it's a means for you and your ilk to play sheriff of nottingham/prince john with the rest of the world. and is it really stealing if we stole if from them first? so no, i dont agree it's looting. like i said (i thought clearly) i see it as payback.

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

at least one of you all is not trying to pretend the market is some sort of equalt opportunity utopia where anyone with $50 extra can make the american dream happen.

Well, I was saying that it has made middle class folks into millionaires.

Yes, I was basically saying that any american can get rich if they invest in the market long-term.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

and i do think it's a scam.

check your posts. yes you did

soulsinging wrote:

for the very reason that people such as you couldn't care less that the people of venezuela are starving as we leach all their resources into the US, as long as the investors holding stock in the companies doing it are making money. whatever, it isnt OUR country being abused. it's the classic us attitude. starving? dont care, it's your country not mine. violence and repression? who cares, not our country, not our problem. fucking with our money, stocks, and economy? sweet jesus, let's skin that motherfucker alive!

you lost me here.

jeffbr

soulsinging wrote:

which is why i think the stock market is a crock of shit. it's a means for you and your ilk to play sheriff of nottingham/prince john with the rest of the world. and is it really stealing if we stole if from them first? so no, i dont agree it's looting. like i said (i thought clearly) i see it as payback.

How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

I bet you are, but guess what....this...... will not be true. your a simple guy? ok how much is "plenty" of money. at your pace you will have enough money to eat and buy toilet paper. and no way will you be able to pay for your kids college. its impossible

lol im not dodging this question, I thought you would take a hint that I dont give a flying fuck what you think about Chavez, Venezuela. verizon, or pizza. honestly, I dont care. Im talking about the stock market

a chicagoan who doesnt give a flying fuck about pizza? now you're just talking crazy.

fair enough. my point about the stock market was never that you cannot use it to expand your wealth, simply that it is chiefly a tool to make sure the haves stay haves and have-nots dont try to get in on more than their share of the pie. im sure i will have money in the market at some point as most retirement funds do that. but im not going to sit there and deny that it's a luxury most in the world do not enjoy. nor am i going to claim that it's some huge tragedy that some rich people lost a few dividends becos venezuela wants to take back what is rightfully theirs.

norm

If you think this guy is your hero

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/michaeldouglaswallstreetcolor.JPG

then go outside and take a walk. It's just money.

CorporateWhore

jeffbr wrote:

How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.

You ain't gonna convince him if he won't believe you, brother.

Taking stock in a company is a risk. In the bond market, we are compensated for the risk of the company - if the company is very risky, we should expect a big return or a big loss. If its a very stable company, smaller returns can be expected.

The american spirit is founded on taking risks and being big dreamers.

soulsinging

jeffbr wrote:

How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.

the economy is driven by the market. the wealthy middle class invest and make money. they gain increased security. however, to up their dividends, corporations and companies feel increasing and excessive pressure to focus only on the bottom line to the exclusion of all else. thus, when a union tries to negotiate wages that give them maybe half of what the stockholders' income is (BEFORE their dividends), the company decides to close the division and ship the labor overseas. or they axe an entire department that's non-unionized to cut a bunch of people who were clinging to the poverty line in order to maximize the bottom line. even if they were making a sizable profit before, stock pressures drive them to make MORE profits. so instead of 1 billion they take in 2 billion. the 100 stockholders get richer so they now earn triple those other workers and their portfolios flourish. meanwhile, 1000 other americans are now out of a job totally and living on welfare. the rich people then bitch about their taxes going to support lazy people like the ones they just forced out of a job. ceo's and stockholders make out like bandits, most people involved lose their entire income.

as an economist, i would think this would be somewhat intuitive to you.