here's hoping you dont let your greed go to your head and buy stock in a company even greedier thann you... hate to see your money go the way of all the poor saps who bought into enron. though that would be amusingly poetic justice.
Do you think everyone that invests in the economy is investing in a company like enron? Its called a mutual fund..i pool my money because im not market savvy(least not yet) enough to drop 10 grand on a stock. So i invest in a whole assortment of things, and i also put my money in a cd, and not to forget my savings account and my 401k that i have with my company ( which my company matches).
here's hoping you dont let your greed go to your head and buy stock in a company even greedier thann you... hate to see your money go the way of all the poor saps who bought into enron. though that would be amusingly poetic justice.
It's called diversifying your portfolio.
No serious investor puts most of their money into one company. There's too much unique risk. Now, going on basic market risk, one can only stand to gain in the long-term, based on historical data on the market.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
ah, thus your logic is revealed. you need to invest to maintain a flashy, high profile lifestyle with a brand new luxury sedan every year. my father is a lawyer at such a firm and doesn't own a single pair of $400 shoes or a $2000 suits. his car is nice, but not huge and their mortgage is almost paid off. yeah, if you wanna live like a king you've got to play the market. but guess what? im a big fan of this little trick called living within one's means... where i dont need to drop thousands on the hottest and most stylish clothes to satisfy my ego.
You implied that because you were going to earn a 6 figure income you were set. I merely contend that it isn't the case. There are plenty of 6 figure income folks living paycheck to paycheck. My advice to you is simply to think about your future. You aren't going to save for the future putting the money in a savings account where inflation outpaces interest rates. This all seems so new to you, but in 2 years from now you'll understand the wisdom I'm imparting. You're just starting. I've already made mine. I have nothing to gain by giving you advice except to keep you from the welfare/social security roles. That's it.
this post shows you dont have a sound understanding of how the rest of the country lives and operates... the majority that isnt living in the lap of luxury and complaining about how hard it is to be in the richest 1% of human beings in the world.
but great job projecting your lifestyle demands onto me.
Although I have made a quite comfortable living for myself, I am modest in my lifesyle demands. I am a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. No flash here.
also, this does not at all respond to my point about how playing stocks only benefits the already-wealthy. nobody is moving from the ghetto to the suburbs based on stock speculation. it's solely a game for the rich to get richer at the expense of the suckers who buy into bullshit like yours about how anyone can make a fortune playing the market.
I'll directly respond to your point, then: people from all economic strata are in the market. Some are in it with $2,000 in a Charles Schwab account. Some are in it with their company's retirement plan. Some set aside 10% - 20% of their pay in a 401K plan that they administer or have someone else watch. Others have fortunes invested. There are plenty of non-wealthy people invested in the market. It is absolutely NOT a game for the rich only. Actually, it is not a game at all. It sounds to me like you have spent too much time squandering your part-time paychecks. I understand you're still a student, but you really need to start talking to someone about a financial plan as soon as you are ready to start your career.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
so upper class is 5% middle class is 5% and the rest is the bottom 90%? I still dont see how investing in a Dow Stock is getting smammed? whats the scam?
who is "they"?
do you have a job? do you make a salary? if not, there are many people who do. many people work for public traded companies. and 401K. which invests in stocks among other things. even people who arent "wealthy" make from 20k-80k year who take a % from every pay check and invest directly in stocks. how are they getting scammed? most stock indexes are up between 4-10% historically every year. except 1929, 1987, etc.
A stockholder is an individual or company (including a corporation) that legally owns one or more shares of stock in a joint stock company. Companies listed at the stock market strive to enhance shareholder value.
Shareholders are granted special privileges depending on the class of stock, including the right to vote (usually one vote per share owned) on matters such as elections to the board of directors, the right to share in distributions of the company's income, the right to purchase new shares issued by the company, and the right to a company's assets during a liquidation of the company
you've never seen that stat about the wealthiest 10% of this country owning 90% of the resources?
regardless of your financial savvy, yo've still never once responded to my argument. sure, you can make money in the stock market. the literal fact of that is indisputable. what i was challenging from moment one is why i should be shedding tears over poor verizon right now.
What will be the return on your money? What will be the net return after inflation is factored in? Perhaps you could set aside a few bills to set on fire while you're at it.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I'll directly respond to your point, then: people from all economic strata are in the market. Some are in it with $2,000 in a Charles Schwab account. Some are in it with their company's retirement plan. Some set aside 10% - 20% of their pay in a 401K plan that they administer or have someone else watch. Others have fortunes invested. There are plenty of non-wealthy people invested in the market. It is absolutely NOT a game for the rich only. Actually, it is not a game at all. It sounds to me like you have spent too much time squandering your part-time paychecks. I understand you're still a student, but you really need to start talking to someone about a financial plan as soon as you are ready to start your career.
ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.
What a surprise: you guys are right wingers and you know something about the stock market!
Haha, we can't help loving the capitalist system. The stock market has made so many millionaires. God bless it.
at least one of you all is not trying to pretend the market is some sort of equalt opportunity utopia where anyone with $50 extra can make the american dream happen.
want to get a little more specific? a savings account making 2% ? unless you plan on living off your social security checks, you might want to reconsider your investment strategy
you've never seen that stat about the wealthiest 10% of this country owning 90% of the resources?
regardless of your financial savvy, yo've still never once responded to my argument. sure, you can make money in the stock market. the literal fact of that is indisputable. what i was challenging from moment one is why i should be shedding tears over poor verizon right now.
yea great and then you said the stock market is a scam. i'm trying to explain to you its not
want to get a little more specific? a savings account making 2% ? unless you plan on living off your social security checks, you might want to reconsider your investment strategy
sure. im a simple kinda guy. people all over this country manage to survive until death without going on welfare OR pumping money into the stock market. what are they doing?
and good job on responding to my real question about why i should give 2 shits what chavez does with his country's resources.
ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.
Honestly, I hope you do take the advice and have a plan. The ealier you start, the more compound interest will do the work for you.
As for your second statement, I wasn't running around like chicken little, but what Chavez did was thievery. He is a robber. Nothing more than a common looter. He isn't assuring that his country's assets stay in Venezuela, he's stealing other people's assets.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
yea great and then you said the stock market is a scam. i'm trying to explain to you its not
and i do think it's a scam. for the very reason that people such as you couldn't care less that the people of venezuela are starving as we leach all their resources into the US, as long as the investors holding stock in the companies doing it are making money. whatever, it isnt OUR country being abused. it's the classic us attitude. starving? dont care, it's your country not mine. violence and repression? who cares, not our country, not our problem. fucking with our money, stocks, and economy? sweet jesus, let's skin that motherfucker alive!
ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.
It's not that simple, brother. His country's assets depend HEAVILY on foreign investment. When you nationalize foreign companies, you lose out on all foreign investment b/c foreign companies say "fuck you guys, I'm not doing business with you anymore."
Venezuela doesn't manufacture everything it consumes; therefore, it must import things. If Chavez nationalizes everything and "keeps his assets in Venezuela," Venezuelans will have a lower standard of living as a result. For things that they don't have a competitive advantage in, they will lose money in producing them.
In a global economy, government-run companies cannot compete with efficient conglomerates. Venezuela's experiment in socialism will end in failure for the Venezuelan people and the government - but the poor people will have a fraction of a better living and that's all they really care about. They could be living a lot better if their government allowed them a more free economy.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Honestly, I hope you do take the advice and have a plan. The ealier you start, the more compound interest will do the work for you.
As for your second statement, I wasn't running around like chicken little, but what Chavez did was thievery. He is a robber. Nothing more than a common looter. He isn't assuring that his country's assets stay in Venezuela, he's stealing other people's assets.
he's stealing AMERICANS' assets... assets they stole from venezuela before venezuela was even aware of what was being done to them. it's like selling a child a nickel for a dime becos it's bigger. we raped them and hijacked their economy. payback's a bitch.
It's not that simple, brother. His country's assets depend HEAVILY on foreign investment. When you nationalize foreign companies, you lose out on all foreign investment b/c foreign companies say "fuck you guys, I'm not doing business with you anymore."
Venezuela doesn't manufacture everything it consumes; therefore, it must import things. If Chavez nationalizes everything and "keeps his assets in Venezuela," Venezuelans will have a lower standard of living as a result. For things that they don't have a competitive advantage in, they will lose money in producing them.
In a global economy, government-run companies cannot compete with efficient conglomerates. Venezuela's experiment in socialism will end in failure for the Venezuelan people and the government - but the poor people will have a fraction of a better living and that's all they really care about. They could be living a lot better if their government allowed them a more free economy.
we shall see. im of the opinion a free economy means some people live a lot better and a whole lot more people live a lot worse. the top heavy free trade thing we've got going is going to end in disaster. maybe it will last longer. venezuela might fold in a decade... it might take the rest of us 100 years to start to topple. but we cannot maintain the kind of economy we're running right now. and by we i mean the world, not just the us.
sure. im a simple kinda guy. people all over this country manage to survive until death without going on welfare OR pumping money into the stock market. what are they doing?
I bet you are, but guess what....this......
soulsinging
i fully intend to have plenty of money set aside for retirement AND for my children's college expenses.
will not be true. your a simple guy? ok how much is "plenty" of money. at your pace you will have enough money to eat and buy toilet paper. and no way will you be able to pay for your kids college. its impossible
and good job on responding to my real question about why i should give 2 shits what chavez does with his country's resources.
lol im not dodging this question, I thought you would take a hint that I dont give a flying fuck what you think about Chavez, Venezuela. verizon, or pizza. honestly, I dont care. Im talking about the stock market
I am happy that you at least agree that he is a looter. I don't see looting as a noble attribute. I also think Robin Hood was an asshole.
which is why i think the stock market is a crock of shit. it's a means for you and your ilk to play sheriff of nottingham/prince john with the rest of the world. and is it really stealing if we stole if from them first? so no, i dont agree it's looting. like i said (i thought clearly) i see it as payback.
at least one of you all is not trying to pretend the market is some sort of equalt opportunity utopia where anyone with $50 extra can make the american dream happen.
Well, I was saying that it has made middle class folks into millionaires.
Yes, I was basically saying that any american can get rich if they invest in the market long-term.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
for the very reason that people such as you couldn't care less that the people of venezuela are starving as we leach all their resources into the US, as long as the investors holding stock in the companies doing it are making money. whatever, it isnt OUR country being abused. it's the classic us attitude. starving? dont care, it's your country not mine. violence and repression? who cares, not our country, not our problem. fucking with our money, stocks, and economy? sweet jesus, let's skin that motherfucker alive!
which is why i think the stock market is a crock of shit. it's a means for you and your ilk to play sheriff of nottingham/prince john with the rest of the world. and is it really stealing if we stole if from them first? so no, i dont agree it's looting. like i said (i thought clearly) i see it as payback.
How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I bet you are, but guess what....this...... will not be true. your a simple guy? ok how much is "plenty" of money. at your pace you will have enough money to eat and buy toilet paper. and no way will you be able to pay for your kids college. its impossible
lol im not dodging this question, I thought you would take a hint that I dont give a flying fuck what you think about Chavez, Venezuela. verizon, or pizza. honestly, I dont care. Im talking about the stock market
a chicagoan who doesnt give a flying fuck about pizza? now you're just talking crazy.
fair enough. my point about the stock market was never that you cannot use it to expand your wealth, simply that it is chiefly a tool to make sure the haves stay haves and have-nots dont try to get in on more than their share of the pie. im sure i will have money in the market at some point as most retirement funds do that. but im not going to sit there and deny that it's a luxury most in the world do not enjoy. nor am i going to claim that it's some huge tragedy that some rich people lost a few dividends becos venezuela wants to take back what is rightfully theirs.
How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.
You ain't gonna convince him if he won't believe you, brother.
Taking stock in a company is a risk. In the bond market, we are compensated for the risk of the company - if the company is very risky, we should expect a big return or a big loss. If its a very stable company, smaller returns can be expected.
The american spirit is founded on taking risks and being big dreamers.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.
the economy is driven by the market. the wealthy middle class invest and make money. they gain increased security. however, to up their dividends, corporations and companies feel increasing and excessive pressure to focus only on the bottom line to the exclusion of all else. thus, when a union tries to negotiate wages that give them maybe half of what the stockholders' income is (BEFORE their dividends), the company decides to close the division and ship the labor overseas. or they axe an entire department that's non-unionized to cut a bunch of people who were clinging to the poverty line in order to maximize the bottom line. even if they were making a sizable profit before, stock pressures drive them to make MORE profits. so instead of 1 billion they take in 2 billion. the 100 stockholders get richer so they now earn triple those other workers and their portfolios flourish. meanwhile, 1000 other americans are now out of a job totally and living on welfare. the rich people then bitch about their taxes going to support lazy people like the ones they just forced out of a job. ceo's and stockholders make out like bandits, most people involved lose their entire income.
as an economist, i would think this would be somewhat intuitive to you.
Comments
Do you think everyone that invests in the economy is investing in a company like enron? Its called a mutual fund..i pool my money because im not market savvy(least not yet) enough to drop 10 grand on a stock. So i invest in a whole assortment of things, and i also put my money in a cd, and not to forget my savings account and my 401k that i have with my company ( which my company matches).
Its not greed buddy..its called thinking
I think he has a piggy bank
It's called diversifying your portfolio.
No serious investor puts most of their money into one company. There's too much unique risk. Now, going on basic market risk, one can only stand to gain in the long-term, based on historical data on the market.
-Enoch Powell
You implied that because you were going to earn a 6 figure income you were set. I merely contend that it isn't the case. There are plenty of 6 figure income folks living paycheck to paycheck. My advice to you is simply to think about your future. You aren't going to save for the future putting the money in a savings account where inflation outpaces interest rates. This all seems so new to you, but in 2 years from now you'll understand the wisdom I'm imparting. You're just starting. I've already made mine. I have nothing to gain by giving you advice except to keep you from the welfare/social security roles. That's it.
Although I have made a quite comfortable living for myself, I am modest in my lifesyle demands. I am a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. No flash here.
I'll directly respond to your point, then: people from all economic strata are in the market. Some are in it with $2,000 in a Charles Schwab account. Some are in it with their company's retirement plan. Some set aside 10% - 20% of their pay in a 401K plan that they administer or have someone else watch. Others have fortunes invested. There are plenty of non-wealthy people invested in the market. It is absolutely NOT a game for the rich only. Actually, it is not a game at all. It sounds to me like you have spent too much time squandering your part-time paychecks. I understand you're still a student, but you really need to start talking to someone about a financial plan as soon as you are ready to start your career.
bank accounts.
you've never seen that stat about the wealthiest 10% of this country owning 90% of the resources?
regardless of your financial savvy, yo've still never once responded to my argument. sure, you can make money in the stock market. the literal fact of that is indisputable. what i was challenging from moment one is why i should be shedding tears over poor verizon right now.
Haha, we can't help loving the capitalist system. The stock market has made so many millionaires. God bless it.
-Enoch Powell
What will be the return on your money? What will be the net return after inflation is factored in? Perhaps you could set aside a few bills to set on fire while you're at it.
ill cross that bridge when i come to it. but even then, im not going to run around acting like the sky is falling becos verizon stock tanked and some investors lost money becos chavez is trying to make sure his country's financial assets stay in venezuela.
at least one of you all is not trying to pretend the market is some sort of equalt opportunity utopia where anyone with $50 extra can make the american dream happen.
sure. im a simple kinda guy. people all over this country manage to survive until death without going on welfare OR pumping money into the stock market. what are they doing?
and good job on responding to my real question about why i should give 2 shits what chavez does with his country's resources.
Honestly, I hope you do take the advice and have a plan. The ealier you start, the more compound interest will do the work for you.
As for your second statement, I wasn't running around like chicken little, but what Chavez did was thievery. He is a robber. Nothing more than a common looter. He isn't assuring that his country's assets stay in Venezuela, he's stealing other people's assets.
and i do think it's a scam. for the very reason that people such as you couldn't care less that the people of venezuela are starving as we leach all their resources into the US, as long as the investors holding stock in the companies doing it are making money. whatever, it isnt OUR country being abused. it's the classic us attitude. starving? dont care, it's your country not mine. violence and repression? who cares, not our country, not our problem. fucking with our money, stocks, and economy? sweet jesus, let's skin that motherfucker alive!
It's not that simple, brother. His country's assets depend HEAVILY on foreign investment. When you nationalize foreign companies, you lose out on all foreign investment b/c foreign companies say "fuck you guys, I'm not doing business with you anymore."
Venezuela doesn't manufacture everything it consumes; therefore, it must import things. If Chavez nationalizes everything and "keeps his assets in Venezuela," Venezuelans will have a lower standard of living as a result. For things that they don't have a competitive advantage in, they will lose money in producing them.
In a global economy, government-run companies cannot compete with efficient conglomerates. Venezuela's experiment in socialism will end in failure for the Venezuelan people and the government - but the poor people will have a fraction of a better living and that's all they really care about. They could be living a lot better if their government allowed them a more free economy.
-Enoch Powell
he's stealing AMERICANS' assets... assets they stole from venezuela before venezuela was even aware of what was being done to them. it's like selling a child a nickel for a dime becos it's bigger. we raped them and hijacked their economy. payback's a bitch.
I am happy that you at least agree that he is a looter. I don't see looting as a noble attribute. I also think Robin Hood was an asshole.
we shall see. im of the opinion a free economy means some people live a lot better and a whole lot more people live a lot worse. the top heavy free trade thing we've got going is going to end in disaster. maybe it will last longer. venezuela might fold in a decade... it might take the rest of us 100 years to start to topple. but we cannot maintain the kind of economy we're running right now. and by we i mean the world, not just the us.
lol im not dodging this question, I thought you would take a hint that I dont give a flying fuck what you think about Chavez, Venezuela. verizon, or pizza. honestly, I dont care. Im talking about the stock market
which is why i think the stock market is a crock of shit. it's a means for you and your ilk to play sheriff of nottingham/prince john with the rest of the world. and is it really stealing if we stole if from them first? so no, i dont agree it's looting. like i said (i thought clearly) i see it as payback.
Well, I was saying that it has made middle class folks into millionaires.
Yes, I was basically saying that any american can get rich if they invest in the market long-term.
-Enoch Powell
How is taking an equity share in a company equated with stealing from the poor? This is one of our major disconnects, apparently.
a chicagoan who doesnt give a flying fuck about pizza? now you're just talking crazy.
fair enough. my point about the stock market was never that you cannot use it to expand your wealth, simply that it is chiefly a tool to make sure the haves stay haves and have-nots dont try to get in on more than their share of the pie. im sure i will have money in the market at some point as most retirement funds do that. but im not going to sit there and deny that it's a luxury most in the world do not enjoy. nor am i going to claim that it's some huge tragedy that some rich people lost a few dividends becos venezuela wants to take back what is rightfully theirs.
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/michaeldouglaswallstreetcolor.JPG
then go outside and take a walk. It's just money.
Taking stock in a company is a risk. In the bond market, we are compensated for the risk of the company - if the company is very risky, we should expect a big return or a big loss. If its a very stable company, smaller returns can be expected.
The american spirit is founded on taking risks and being big dreamers.
-Enoch Powell
the economy is driven by the market. the wealthy middle class invest and make money. they gain increased security. however, to up their dividends, corporations and companies feel increasing and excessive pressure to focus only on the bottom line to the exclusion of all else. thus, when a union tries to negotiate wages that give them maybe half of what the stockholders' income is (BEFORE their dividends), the company decides to close the division and ship the labor overseas. or they axe an entire department that's non-unionized to cut a bunch of people who were clinging to the poverty line in order to maximize the bottom line. even if they were making a sizable profit before, stock pressures drive them to make MORE profits. so instead of 1 billion they take in 2 billion. the 100 stockholders get richer so they now earn triple those other workers and their portfolios flourish. meanwhile, 1000 other americans are now out of a job totally and living on welfare. the rich people then bitch about their taxes going to support lazy people like the ones they just forced out of a job. ceo's and stockholders make out like bandits, most people involved lose their entire income.
as an economist, i would think this would be somewhat intuitive to you.