Muslim attacks gynecologist

MrBrian

NMyTree wrote:

Well, his dumbassness was based in Islamic beliefs, so I'd say it is about the religion.

Granted the guy is a dumbass before and after religion. But this particular dumbass behavior was indeed rooted in his religion.

just because he said it was his religion, does'nt mean that's what is true.
Nothing in Islam about not allowing someone of the other sex to perform anything related to medical stuff.

The guy in the article is just a nutter.

Coming back to life

It Was All A Hoax. It Was Staged By The Bush Administration.

boxwine_in_hell

miller8966 wrote:

France: Muslim Jailed for Attacking Gynecologist

A French Muslim who attacked a male gynecologist for examining his wife in a hospital delivery room just after a complicated birth, saying it was against Islam, has been jailed for six months by a Paris court. The police had to intervene to remove the 23-year-old man, who said he had requested a female doctor. "This is a public and secular place," a prosecutor, Georges Holleaux, said. "This is not the place where one can invoke religion to get different treatment."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/26/world/europe/26briefs-frenchmuslim.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I have a similar story that I personally witnessed. When me and my wife had our first son, in the room right next to us we kept hearing this terrible moaning all night long like somebody was dying and this woman was talking to herself over and over again in some language I didn't recognize. I finally asked our nurse what the hell was going on over there? She said that it was a very orthodox and strict Muslim couple and apparently she had been in labor for about 30 hours and was having all kinds of problems because her husband would not allow the doctors to give her an epidural. So we had to listen to this all night and it was horrible. Later that morning I had gone out to the waiting rooms to give my in-laws an update on how my wife was doing and when I came back to our room, I hear all this shouting and general pandamonium going on next door and I can hear the doctor saying..."Sir if we don't get her a C Section in the next couple of hours, your wife will die." Apparently this freak didn't want his wife to have any medication and a C Section was out of the question. Why they were even at a hospital if he felt this way I'm not really sure. Well eventually the guy got so irate and out of control that they called security and the cops and he was taken away in handcuffs, while they took his wife away for a C Section. If it hadn't been for the doctors and the fact that he got arrested, I think he would have let his wife die in child birth. Needless to say, it wasn't exactly what you want going on in the room next to you when your trying to keep your own wife that's about to give birth, calm and relaxed. I was kind of secretly hoping that the dude would come in my room so I could beat his ass but alas Allah didn't allow this to happen because I was ready. The longer that dude let his wife suffer I just kept getting more and more angry.

angelica

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

I have a similar story that I personally witnessed. When me and my wife had our first son, in the room right next to us we kept hearing this terrible moaning all night long like somebody was dying and this woman was talking to herself over and over again in some language I didn't recognize. I finally asked our nurse what the hell was going on over there? She said that it was a very orthodox and strict Muslim couple and apparently she had been in labor for about 30 hours and was having all kinds of problems because her husband would not allow the doctors to give her an epidural. So we had to listen to this all night and it was horrible. Later that morning I had gone out to the waiting rooms to give my in-laws an update on how my wife was doing and when I came back to our room, I hear all this shouting and general pandamonium going on next door and I can hear the doctor saying..."Sir if we don't get her a C Section in the next couple of hours, your wife will die." Apparently this freak didn't want his wife to have any medication and a C Section was out of the question. Why they were even at a hospital if he felt this way I'm not really sure. Well eventually the guy got so irate and out of control that they called security and the cops and he was taken away in handcuffs, while they took his wife away for a C Section. If it hadn't been for the doctors and the fact that he got arrested, I think he would have let his wife die in child birth. Needless to say, it wasn't exactly what you want going on in the room next to you when your trying to keep your own wife that's about to give birth, calm and relaxed. I was kind of secretly hoping that the dude would come in my room so I could beat his ass but alas Allah didn't allow this to happen because I was ready. The longer that dude let his wife suffer I just kept getting more and more angry.

I can completely understand how this was not an optimal situation for your wife or yourself to experience at such an important time in your lives.

And at the same time, it's pretty clear that that majority of people from East to West are caught up in their own ethnocentric viewpoint. When we cannot see beyond our own cultural position in order to achieve true understanding of another, the easy way out is to impose our belief systems on them and expect them to live by our standard of "right". It gets interesting to me, though, when we're so fearful and afraid that others might want to turn it around on us. It's not a wonder that we live in fear of what we do unto others when we impose our standards, and we are so uncomfortable with the idea that they might want to do it back to us at some point. We'll go to great lengths in making them wrong, rather than understand. All the while we comfort ourselves imagining that the evil is "out there", in "them", rather than within all of us. (and I'm generalising here, and not only speaking to you, boxwine_in_hell)

boxwine_in_hell

angelica wrote:

I can completely understand how this was not an optimal situation for your wife or yourself to experience at such an important time in your lives.

And at the same time, it's pretty clear that that majority of people from East to West are caught up in their own ethnocentric viewpoint. When we cannot see beyond our own cultural position in order to achieve true understanding of another, the easy way out is to impose our belief systems on them and expect them to live by our standard of "right". It gets interesting to me, though, when we're so fearful and afraid that others might want to turn it around on us. It's not a wonder that we live in fear of what we do unto others when we impose our standards, and we are so uncomfortable with the idea that they might want to do it back to us at some point. We'll go to great lengths in making them wrong, rather than understand. All the while we comfort ourselves imagining that the evil is "out there", in "them", rather than within all of us. (and I'm generalising here, and not only speaking to you, boxwine_in_hell)

I am a very open minded person, however if you are putting your religious beliefs before your wife and child's safety and in this instance even their lives then they could have been Hindus from Antarctica and it would still be wrong in my book.

angelica

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

I am a very open minded person, however if you are putting your religious beliefs before your wife and child's safety and in this instance even their lives then they could have been Hindus from Antarctica and it would still be wrong in my book.

And that's completely fair.

I just don't see it as anymore universally "right" than his views which he probably viewed as superior to your own. Yeah, in North America, we have certain laws and rules that reflect the majority and the major cultural beliefs. That's removed from Truth however.

B nice

christians kill docters as well
so what

god is for idiots

enharmonic

There comes a time when even the most religious person has to make a choice. That choice should always be life. Allah wouldn't have allowed them to seek help from a hospital if it was against Islam.

This is an instance where claiming your religion doesn't permit thsi or that should earn you a kick in the balls. If his wife would have died, you can bet that there would have been legal action against the hospital. How "Muslim" would that have been?

I have no respect for people who hide behind their religion in the face of obvious medical necessity.

angelica

B nice wrote:

christians kill docters as well
so what

god is for idiots

Maybe it's not as much God, as it's our own foolish egotistical self-importance that makes us so sure that we're right. It's all good and fine for ourselves. I don't know about others, but when I make tough moral decisions, sometimes I barely know what's right for myself, much less the fact that I'm entirely and completely ill-equipped in deciding for others when I don't have the same inner criteria to judge by that they do. No, it doesn't seem to me like this is about God at all.

darkcrow

not condoning the actions of this idiot... but i wonder what the wife wanted/asked for/felt? did she feel the same way? did she also want a female doctor? just a thought....

boxwine_in_hell

enharmonic wrote:

There comes a time when even the most religious person has to make a choice. That choice should always be life. Allah wouldn't have allowed them to seek help from a hospital if it was against Islam.

This is an instance where claiming your religion doesn't permit thsi or that should earn you a kick in the balls. If his wife would have died, you can bet that there would have been legal action against the hospital. How "Muslim" would that have been?

I have no respect for people who hide behind their religion in the face of obvious medical necessity.

Good points harmonic. I'd also be willing to bet everything I own that the baby was a girl. If it had been a boy, you can bet your ass that the husband would have been getting her some medical care.

boxwine_in_hell

darkcrow wrote:

not condoning the actions of this idiot... but i wonder what the wife wanted/asked for/felt? did she feel the same way? did she also want a female doctor? just a thought....

I think she was in a pain induced stupor, I don't think she could have told anyone what she wanted.

Collin

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

Good points harmonic. I'd also be willing to bet everything I own that the baby was a girl. If it had been a boy, you can bet your ass that the husband would have been getting her some medical care.

Assumptions are always nice, I wouldn't bet everything I own for something based on an assumption, though.

Collin

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

I think she was in a pain induced stupor, I don't think she could have told anyone what she wanted.

I think she was talking about the woman in the original post.

angelica

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

I think she was in a pain induced stupor, I don't think she could have told anyone what she wanted.

There is a rule in the psychology of transactional analysis that says the only people who cannot decide for themselves what they want are unconscious people. To impose our will on them with any justifications--such as "helping"--is otherwise is considered invasive.