Clinton pissed at ABC

SuzannePjam

farfromglorified wrote:

The last thing this country needs is another drama-mentary. From what I understand, there are some big misrepresentations in this flick. I'd like to see the right leave the Michael Moore'ing where it belongs.....on the left.

I have yet to read a post about an actual lie MM told in F911. The best anyone could do was point out how a camera was turned off when a congressman said he had nephews who were going to serve in Iraq. But that's for another thread.

I wonder what Rovey boy promised Disney to have them get this film out by the mid term elections? I wonder if this "documentary" will have the part about Bush not reading the report "'Bin Laden determined to strike in the US"?

A few of the reported mistruths:

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Clinton Foundation head Bruce Lindsey and Clinton adviser Douglas Band wrote in the past week to Robert Iger, CEO of ABC’s parent The Walt Disney Co., to express concern over “The Path to 9/11.”

Albright objected to a scene that she was told showed her insisting on warning the Pakistani government before an airstrike on Afghanistan, and that she was the one who made the warning.
“The scene as explained to me is false and defamatory,” she said.
Berger objected to a scene that he was told showed him refusing to authorize an attack on Osama bin Laden despite the request from CIA officials. “The fabrication of this scene (of such apparent magnitude) cannot be justified under any reasonable definition of dramatic license,” he wrote.

Lindsey and Band objected to advertisements for the miniseries, which they said suggested that Clinton wasn’t paying enough attention to the threat of terrorism.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14718803/

farfromglorified

SuzannePjam wrote:

I have yet to read a post about an actual lie MM told in F911. The best anyone could do was point out how a camera was turned off when a congressman said he had nephews who were going to serve in Iraq. But that's for another thread.

I'm not accusing Michael Moore of lying. I have no idea if he lied during F911. I've never seen it nor will I waste my time with it after BFC. The man's approach is not honest though.

The scene you discuss in F911 may not contain any outright lies. But at the same time it's completely dishonest because it asks people to sign their children up for the war, right? Problem is you can't sign a child up for the military, nor would any responsible, decent parent do something so idiotic. It's reducing an important issue to a circus farce.

Michael Moore has advocated a 70% tax rate. If I showed up at his house with a bill for 70% of his income and a camera, do you think he'd just hand over the money???

I wonder what Rovey boy promised Disney to have them get this film out by the mid term elections? I wonder if this "documentary" will have the part about Bush not reading the report "'Bin Laden determined to strike in the US"?

Doubtful, no more than F911 probably contained the information about Clinton's actual failures.

WMA

ABC/Disney is handling this rather poorly, no doubt.

I don't see why anybody would be pushing to have this thing shown as is anyway. I guess some people think that if it is shown and taught in schools suddenly it'll be true.

Yeah, lets mislead people and teach children how we want it to have happened. Show the lies! People will believe them!

Purple Hawk

Jeanwah wrote:

Why anyone would want to watch fictionalized drama about a tragedy that happened just 5 years ago, is beyond me.

Why would anyone want to watch fictionalized drama about a tragedy that happened just 1 year ago? The views towards reliving 9/11 and Katrina in the "alternative universe" is quite telling.

acroyear

What's amazing is that the Bush administration never attempted to censor Michael Moore...
There's the difference between Republicans and Democrats...

mtilden

farfromglorified wrote:

It's reducing an important issue to a circus farce.

You don't see the correlation of using a circus farce to draw attention to an entire system that's a circus farce?

WMA

acroyear wrote:

What's amazing is that the Bush administration never attempted to censor Michael Moore...
There's the difference between Republicans and Democrats...

There were a ton of Republicans who were going nuts about it. It was a whole different situation though, as it was going to theaters. They did work pretty hard to get the commercials removed from broadcast stations though. Disney even prevented Mirimax from distributing it in America because "releasing it would risk being dragged into a highly charged partisan political battle". So, the founders of Mirimax acquired the rights to it from Disney to release it through another company.

Pressure from Republicans also prevented a Ronald Reagan drama from being aired on CBS.

Jammin909

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm not accusing Michael Moore of lying. I have no idea if he lied during F911. I've never seen it nor will I waste my time with it after BFC. The man's approach is not honest though.

The scene you discuss in F911 may not contain any outright lies. But at the same time it's completely dishonest because it asks people to sign their children up for the war, right? Problem is you can't sign a child up for the military, nor would any responsible, decent parent do something so idiotic. It's reducing an important issue to a circus farce.

MM is a producer. GWBush is our president. They both stretch the truth to further their own agendas. Of course, a republican would hold more contempt for a movie producer than his own president who serves America a plate a hot-steaming shit everyday with half-truths.

Another difference is 9/11 was just a movie- not one fictional scene mind you. You had to pay to watch it at the theater, probably bc big corporate interests would not pay to fund such a thing.

Now comes along a republican slanted movie about 9/11 filled with fictional scenes and here comes Disney, ABC, and other corporations who will fund the show and pay huge amounts of money to have commercials on right before and immediately following this show. F9/11 also IS NOT being shown in SCHOOLS! The fact that corporate media is in our schools as learning material FUCKING SUCKS.

Jeanwah

Jammin909 wrote:

Now comes along a republican slanted movie about 9/11 filled with fictional scenes and here comes Disney, ABC, and other corporations who will fund the show and pay huge amounts of money to have commercials on right before and immediately following this show. F9/11 also IS NOT being shown in SCHOOLS! The fact that corporate media is in our schools as learning material FUCKING SUCKS.

You're right. Objectivity isn't even being taught in schools. I bet this fictional mini-series will make it into schools though...what a piece of trash.

Purple Hawk

This thread has done a great job of exposing the hypocricy, bitterness, and just plain irrational viewpoint of the American Left.

This is viewed as trash...we should not watch it...it's propoganda...

Yet Spike Lee brings up good points. We need to listen to him and all the others (Zinn, Chomsky, etc) because they really open our minds. It's completely plausable that Bush blew up the levies, that he masterminded 9/11....but criticizing the Clinton Administration's handling of Islamofascism...that's just crazy! Do you guys realize that the movie also criticizes the Bush Administration?

Reliving Katrina (while ignoring the local response so we can only focus on Bush) is a constructive activity to get at government accountability. But discussing 9/11 is drilling for fear.

Again, the alternative universe you live in...wow.

RainDog

Purple Hawk wrote:

This thread has done a great job of exposing the hypocricy, bitterness, and just plain irrational viewpoint of the American Left.

This is viewed as trash...we should not watch it...it's propoganda...

Yet Spike Lee brings up good points. We need to listen to him and all the others (Zinn, Chomsky, etc) because they really open our minds. It's completely plausable that Bush blew up the levies, that he masterminded 9/11....but criticizing the Clinton Administration's handling of Islamofascism...that's just crazy! Do you guys realize that the movie also criticizes the Bush Administration?

Reliving Katrina (while ignoring the local response so we can only focus on Bush) is a constructive activity to get at government accountability. But discussing 9/11 is drilling for fear.

Again, the alternative universe you live in...wow.

Did you see Spike Lee's documentary? If you haven't, let me explain - it consisted of actual people actually affected by Katrina and contained actual footage of the actual event. No fictionalized dramatizing, no voice-overs, no re-enactments. Just people in front of a camera telling stories. And it wasn't really kind to anyone in government. You're just going to have to accept the fact that any analysis of Katrina is going to make Bush look bad. Blowing up the levies? Yeah, there were a few people interviewed who believe that theory. You know what else the documentary had? Interviews with people that think the theory is a bunch of crap.

As for this 9-11 movie - I've yet to read anyone on the right comment on that Reagan documentary being pulled. Any takers? Now, personally I think the Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot by protesting this too much (counter points would be better). But, still, no explaination about how this is different than the outrage over the Reagan documentary.

Pacomc79

If there were nothing to hide, it'd be no big deal.

The fact of the matter is just like with Katrina, nobodys hands are clean. Everyone is trying to cover thier own asses and each political party could and is blasting the other when it's esssentially the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.


This is not all Bushes fault, neither is it Clintons, or HW Bushes and so on and so forth. It's a combination of bad decisions, poor decisions, bad luck, bad judgement and overall poor leaderhship. In effect its the result of political parties worrying more about grabbing votes than leading the country.

Politics is supposed to be a public service, NOT A CAREER.

Jammin909

Purple Hawk wrote:

This thread has done a great job of exposing the hypocricy, bitterness, and just plain irrational viewpoint of the American Left.

This is viewed as trash...we should not watch it...it's propoganda...

Yet Spike Lee brings up good points. We need to listen to him and all the others (Zinn, Chomsky, etc) because they really open our minds. It's completely plausable that Bush blew up the levies, that he masterminded 9/11....but criticizing the Clinton Administration's handling of Islamofascism...that's just crazy! Do you guys realize that the movie also criticizes the Bush Administration?

Reliving Katrina (while ignoring the local response so we can only focus on Bush) is a constructive activity to get at government accountability. But discussing 9/11 is drilling for fear.

Again, the alternative universe you live in...wow.

When is the last time you thought for yourself?

The problem is not with Clinton or Bush, it's that ABC and Scholastic are producing school materials based on this miniseries that suggests there was a connection between Iraq and 9/11 when the facts clearly state there was not.

It's America and sure- freedom of press but Fahrenheit 9/11 was not used as educational material in schools and neither should this slanted view.

Jeanwah

Purple Hawk wrote:

This thread has done a great job of exposing the hypocricy, bitterness, and just plain irrational viewpoint of the American Left... Do you guys realize that the movie also criticizes the Bush Administration?

Reliving Katrina (while ignoring the local response so we can only focus on Bush) is a constructive activity to get at government accountability. But discussing 9/11 is drilling for fear.

Discussing 9/11 is very good. Fictionalizing it into a mini-series is blatantly wrong.

jamestr1

VictoryGin wrote:

Holy fucking shit. Scholastic was going to use that?! :eek:

And that letter is right, no one should fuck with Peter J's legacy like that. That's all fine and fabulous if they want to release a pile of b.s., but don't try to pass it as the truth and market it that way (and to kids!).

Yes, so write your school and tell them not to use this!

floyd1975

RainDog wrote:

I've yet to read anyone on the right comment on that Reagan documentary being pulled.

I had no problem either way with the Reagan movie. I thought it was in bad taste but CBS had the right to show it or not to show it depending on what they thought was best for their business just like ABC does here. Even if this is aired, I probably will find something better to watch anyway.

Now for the left. Where are all those on the left who cried "censorship" when the Reagan movie was pulled yet seem to not be so adamant about this being shown?

RainDog

zstillings wrote:

I had no problem either way with the Reagan movie. I thought it was in bad taste but CBS had the right to show it or not to show it depending on what they thought was best for their business just like ABC does here. Even if this is aired, I probably will find something better to watch anyway.

Now for the left. Where are all those on the left who cried "censorship" when the Reagan movie was pulled yet seem to not be so adamant about this being shown?

I consider myself a lefty - and as such, was never a huge fan of Clinton anyway. And, controversy or not - same as the Reagan film - I probably wouldn't/won't watch it. However, I don't particularly like the idea of "Path to 9/11" being used as an educational film; nor do I consider a dramatization of 9/11 to be equivalent to an actual documentary like "When the Levees Broke."

Milhouse VanHouten

RainDog wrote:

I consider myself a lefty - and as such, was never a huge fan of Clinton anyway. And, controversy or not - same as the Reagan film - I probably wouldn't/won't watch it. However, I don't particularly like the idea of "Path to 9/11" being used as an educational film; nor do I consider a dramatization of 9/11 to be equivalent to an actual documentary like "When the Levees Broke."

The idea of using this thing as a teaching tool is pretty scary. I guess it wouldn't be the first time schools taught distorted versions of history to kids, though.

Pacomc79

RainDog wrote:

I consider myself a lefty - and as such, was never a huge fan of Clinton anyway. And, controversy or not - same as the Reagan film - I probably wouldn't/won't watch it. However, I don't particularly like the idea of "Path to 9/11" being used as an educational film; nor do I consider a dramatization of 9/11 to be equivalent to an actual documentary like "When the Levees Broke."

I actually don't have a problem with either, all information is slanted, I want my kid to be able to figure out the slant, why, where, and how it gets in there and be able to think critically. Most of that gets left until college, because our version of education is so vanilla due to so many parents being "outraged" that thier little ankle biters might deciminate information that they disagree with. It comes from all sides. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to teach history, social science or government or gasp....biology

Ultimately most of us (in this forum) will be watching educational TV anyway reading or doing something else. The majority of the documentaries I watch are Public Broadcasting. Honestly, when was the last time you watched anything of merit on the networks? I mean I'm a sports nut, but other than that? I really don't watch anything.

I honestly hope to raise a child that comes to me and says two following phrases.... Daddy, don't feel bad...It's all Corporate Bullshit..... and then... Daddy, it seems to me like the majority of politicians are full of shit!

sourdough

I generally dislike the use of movies as educational tools with the exception of documentaries ie. BBC or Natural Geographic educational types. Too often they are used as educational crutches for teachers who are too unoriginal or apathetic to actually teach the material and depend on blockbuster.