Nyc to ban trans fats

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  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I sure wish we had a weaker national governement and stronger local operations.

    living in nyc and considering who makes up or national government, i often feel this way.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    if the government told us we could only eat healthy foods; we'd all be eating buffalo. the point here isn't that the government is telling us what to eat; it's banning a dangerous product that people who eat out don't have the choice to aviod. you can't serve rancid meat but nobody says you can't eat it at home.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I'd say the governments primary responsibility is to look after and protect commerce. Therby Protecting individual citizens right to life; liberty; and the pursuit of happiness, leaving individual responsibility to the individual. But....

    The people of New York however seem to belive government is there to look after and protect citizens, so if they locally want to ban trans fats, it's fine with me, kind of like the former Soviet Union if the citizens are used to having every aspect of their lives controlled by government they are going to struggle in a system with more liberty be it social or economic or both. I personally have major issues with the government deciding my personal choices, but I love the concept of localized governement. I sure wish we had a weaker national governement and stronger local operations.
    The problem with granting more coontrol to local governments is 1. they were never designed for it and there are balance of power issues not built into the sytem, and 2. it is much easier for your rights to be trampled at this level, especially using the majority rule idea. The idea of minority rights nad interests is not very strong at the local government level.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    While I think that trans fats are completely fucking horrorable for us I find this as government overstepping it's bounds. Why does our government feel that it has to make our decisions for us. We as individuals should be the ones who reserve the right what crappy food to put into our bodies. While I think that it would be great if resturants should be required to notify their costumers if trans fats where used in the preparation of their meals I don't think that the government, local state or federal, should go so far as to ban resturants from using it. If people want to poison their bodies they should have every right to.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • So the mafia should be able to capitalize on this, illegal trans fat food... Just leave peoples alone, if they wanna be fat, let them be fat... i gotta go eat a poutine for lunch...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    While I think that trans fats are completely fucking horrorable for us I find this as government overstepping it's bounds. Why does our government feel that it has to make our decisions for us. We as individuals should be the ones who reserve the right what crappy food to put into our bodies. While I think that it would be great if resturants should be required to notify their costumers if trans fats where used in the preparation of their meals I don't think that the government, local state or federal, should go so far as to ban resturants from using it. If people want to poison their bodies they should have every right to.

    they are doing you, us, a favor. you wont even know its gone. or maybe you will, you pants might fit better, and you wont have your first heart attack at 41
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    mammasan wrote:
    While I think that trans fats are completely fucking horrorable for us I find this as government overstepping it's bounds. Why does our government feel that it has to make our decisions for us. We as individuals should be the ones who reserve the right what crappy food to put into our bodies. While I think that it would be great if resturants should be required to notify their costumers if trans fats where used in the preparation of their meals I don't think that the government, local state or federal, should go so far as to ban resturants from using it. If people want to poison their bodies they should have every right to.

    hey, fi they arent gonna use that logic for drugs, why use it for transfat?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hey, fi they arent gonna use that logic for drugs, why use it for transfat?


    um last I checked drugs are banned. and you face jail time for having them
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are doing you, us, a favor. you wont even know its gone. or maybe you will, you pants might fit better, and you wont have your first heart attack at 41
    Will you put up a fight when they outlaw caffeine and you can only get decaf coffee? Think how less jittery you'll be and how much less stress will be put on your heart. Will you be thanking the gov't then?
    Will you care when it's alcohol they ban do to all the health issues surrounding it?
    Or will you finally put up a fight when they ban the use of salt and sugar?
    At what point will you start to care that your freedoms are being taken away? Or will you continue to be thankful that Big Brother's watching out for you because you are too stupid to make your own choices on how to live your life.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    um last I checked drugs are banned. and you face jail time for having them

    that was my point. so what's so out of line with the government banning transfat. they've been making judgment calls on what is good for us for years. why stop now.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    surferdude wrote:
    Will you put up a fight when they outlaw caffeine and you can only get decaf coffee? Think how less jittery you'll be and how much less stress will be put on your heart.

    trans fat is far more dangerous then coffee. coffee has been around since america was founded. its not going anywhere. nice try.

    surferdude wrote:
    Will you care when it's alcohol they ban do to all the health issues surrounding it?

    they tried that, it didnt work
    surferdude wrote:
    Or will you finally put up a fight when they ban the use of salt and sugar?

    see above.
    surferdude wrote:
    At what point will you start to care that your freedoms are being taken away?

    hasnt happened. I guess if it does I will have to deal with it.
    surferdude wrote:
    Or will you continue to be thankful that Big Brother's watching out for you because you are too stupid to make your own choices on how to live your life.

    people dont get to choose if they want trans fat or not. Oil, butter, fat, is used in almost all cooking. taking away trans fat, which is not a natural substance, will not be noticed.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    surferdude wrote:
    Will you put up a fight when they outlaw caffeine and you can only get decaf coffee? Think how less jittery you'll be and how much less stress will be put on your heart. Will you be thanking the gov't then?
    Will you care when it's alcohol they ban do to all the health issues surrounding it?
    Or will you finally put up a fight when they ban the use of salt and sugar?
    At what point will you start to care that your freedoms are being taken away? Or will you continue to be thankful that Big Brother's watching out for you because you are too stupid to make your own choices on how to live your life.

    transfats are not banned. restaurants just cant cook with them. as someone said, they cant serve rancid meat, now they cant serve this either. there are all sorts of health codes restaurants must obey. but you're still free to eat whatever you damn well please at home.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    mammasan wrote:
    While I think that trans fats are completely fucking horrorable for us I find this as government overstepping it's bounds. Why does our government feel that it has to make our decisions for us. We as individuals should be the ones who reserve the right what crappy food to put into our bodies. While I think that it would be great if resturants should be required to notify their costumers if trans fats where used in the preparation of their meals I don't think that the government, local state or federal, should go so far as to ban resturants from using it. If people want to poison their bodies they should have every right to.

    i admittedly do not have statistics handy to back this up, but i'm willing to bet that if someone were to do the research they would find that trans fats are probably directly responsible for more severe American Health problems, up to and including death, than crack. Applause NYC. i don't live there, but i would have absolutely no problem with the rest of the country doing likewise. i don't really endorse the govt telling me what to eat, but i have absolutely no problem with the govt prohibiting the manufacturers, handlers, preparers, and servers of food from preparing food in a manner that will fucking kill me.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    The Dangers of Trans Fat


    Health experts, the American Heart Association and virtually every health authority wants us to cut down on trans fatty acids. The creation of trans fat occurs when liquid oils solidify by partial hydrogenation, a process that stretches food shelf life and changes "safe" unsaturated fat into dangerous fat. Trans fats are concentrated in margarine, solid vegetable shortening, doughnuts, crackers, cookies, chips, cakes, pies, some breads and foods fried in hydrogenated fat (chicken, fish, potatoes).

    Experts blame trans fats for at least 30,000 premature deaths a year. Experts now say trans fats are "the biggest food-processing disaster in U.S. history.

    Several decades of research show consumption of trans fatty acids promotes heart disease, cancer, diabetes, immune dysfunction, and obesity and reproductive problems. If Americans can detect the danger in food labels, they would cut back on trans fats, says the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. The FDA wants new food labels to reveal trans fats, contending such labels would save lives by forcing food manufacturers to eliminate trans fats. We are new seeing this movement take place, so no excuses for not knowing if there are trans fats in the foods you're purchasing at the supermarket!

    Just removing trans fatty acids from all margarine's (70 percent now are high in trans fats) would prevent 6,300 heart attacks a year. In addition, eliminating trans fats in just 3% of breads and cakes and 15 percent of cookies and crackers would save up to 59-billion dollars in health care costs in the next 20 years, predicts the FDA.

    Trans fats increase bad LDL cholesterol, triglycerides and insulin levels and reduce beneficial HDL cholesterol, promoting heart attacks. The special villain is margarine. It accounts for about 20 to 25 percent of all trans fat consumed. In fact, trans-fat rich margarine is twice as bad as butter. Butter's saturated fat raises bad LDL, but margarine's trans fat boost LDL and depresses good HDL cholesterol, doubling the damage. Substituting very low trans fat margarine for butter reduces bad LDL cholesterol 11%, but is not as effective for obese people. In diabetics, trans fats appear to reduce the ability of the body to handle blood sugar by lowering responses to the hormone insulin, this is particularly dangerous to diabetics.

    The best diet strategy is not to lower total fat, but to severely restrict saturated fats (animal fats from meat and dairy) and to get near zero intake of trans fats. Some Americans eat 30 to 40 grams of trans fat daily.

    To Avoid Trans Fats:

    1. Use olive oil for all cooking.
    2. Use trans fat-free margarine - soft tub or liquid margarine instead of hard stick margarine.
    3. Generally, the softer the better and liquid is better yet. A tablespoon of stick margarine has about 1.9 grams of trans fat; a tablespoon of regular tub margarine, 0.8 grams. Check the label for trans-free brands. All Promise margarine is trans fat-free as are Fleishmann's in tubs. By government standards, trans-fat means less than 0.5 grams per serving.
    4. When eating out, avoid deep fried foods! A batter-dipped whole fried onion - an appetizer popular at steak houses - has 18 grams of trans fats, according to the Center for Science in the Public Interest. Other trans fat horrors: cheese fries, onion rings, fried seafood and fried chicken and fish.
    5. Restrict foods made with "partially hydrogenated" oils as noted on labels. The higher those words appear in the ingredient list, the more trans fat. Half the fat of a cookie may be trans fat. A doughnut contains four to nine grams of trans fat. If a label does not list trans fat, add up what is listed (saturated, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated) and subtract from the total fat grams. The difference is trans fat. Also, be sure your food is low in saturated fat, a partner that brings on heart disease.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    mammasan wrote:
    While I think that trans fats are completely fucking horrorable for us I find this as government overstepping it's bounds. Why does our government feel that it has to make our decisions for us. We as individuals should be the ones who reserve the right what crappy food to put into our bodies. While I think that it would be great if resturants should be required to notify their costumers if trans fats where used in the preparation of their meals I don't think that the government, local state or federal, should go so far as to ban resturants from using it. If people want to poison their bodies they should have every right to.

    i'm sure you can find a list of banned drugs and carcinogens the government has banned. and this isn't even a ban. vendors selling prepared food to the public cannot use a substance proven harmful to cook that food. if the government can't do that; then they shouldn't be allowed to require workers to wash their hands after using the bathroom. your point doesn't make sense. you can use all the trans fats you want at home. but what about those who choose NOT to poison themselves? why should they be subject to food prepared with trans fats when they have no control over it?
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Oil, butter, fat, is used in almost all cooking. taking away trans fat, which is not a natural substance, will not be noticed.
    Exactly. I don't hear anyone clamoring for the right to eat their beloved trans-fats. "Oh, woe is me! Butter, oil and lard aren't good enough, I NEEEEED my engineered food products!"

    I'd be happy with clear labeling on all restaurant menus, but I also think it's just fine if New York City doesn't want to have this stuff around.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    So, as I understand it, the only real negative effect here is that restaurants will have to buy cooking oil more often?

    Good for New York.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    transfats are not banned. restaurants just cant cook with them. as someone said, they cant serve rancid meat, now they cant serve this either. there are all sorts of health codes restaurants must obey. but you're still free to eat whatever you damn well please at home.
    For now. Letting government legislate the use of a substance that holds no harm to the responsible person is a very dangerous precedent. It hasn't worked with pot, what makes anyone think it will work with trans fat.

    I'm all for labelling and giving the power to the individual/consumer. I'm completely against local governments making this type of law. Local government was never designed to make these type of health choices for you. They have no research and testing to back their legislation. This is democracy at it's worst where the individual has neither rights nor protection from the government.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    For now. Letting government legislate the use of a substance that holds no harm to the responsible person is a very dangerous precedent. It hasn't worked with pot, what makes anyone think it will work with trans fat.
    You're right. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before shady looking New Yorkers are hanging out on street corners peddling sticks of margarine.
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm all for labelling and giving the power to the individual/consumer. I'm completely against local governments making this type of law. Local government was never designed to make these type of health choices for you. They have no research and testing to back their legislation. This is democracy at it's worst where the individual has neither rights nor protection from the government.
    There's plenty of research. If the citizens of New York don't want this, I'm sure the phones at city hall will be ringing off the hook with angry voters. If they do want it, more power to them.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    hippiemom wrote:
    Exactly. I don't hear anyone clamoring for the right to eat their beloved trans-fats. "Oh, woe is me! Butter, oil and lard aren't good enough, I NEEEEED my engineered food products!"

    I'd be happy with clear labeling on all restaurant menus, but I also think it's just fine if New York City doesn't want to have this stuff around.
    The danger is in granting authority to enact legislation that the governing body should not be involved in regardless of how well intentioned the legislation is. What research has NYC done regarding trans fat? What departments do they have with this responsibility? Do you see the real problem with this?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    going one step further; why does the government allow farmers and ranchers to raise animals in a manner that makes the meat unhealthy? why don't we see regulations here? years ago; it was found that these practices cause no danger. the part left out of the sentence was "ACCORDING TO OUR TESTING CAPABILITIES AT THIS TIME".
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    surferdude wrote:
    The danger is in granting authority to enact legislation that the governing body should not be involved in regardless of how well intentioned the legislation is. What research has NYC done regarding trans fat? What departments do they have with this responsibility? Do you see the real problem with this?

    the entire world has done the research. the FDA has the responsability and the health department has the authority to act upon it. here's some information directed at fats in general.
    CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is a cancer-fighting fat that is most abundant in grassfed products. Two new European studies link a diet high in CLA with a lower risk of breast cancer. In Finland, researchers measured CLA levels in the serum of women with and without breast cancer. Those women with the most CLA had a significantly lower risk of the disease. Meanwhile, French researchers measured CLA levels in the breast tissues of 360 women. Once again, the women with the most CLA had the lowest risk of cancer. In fact, the women with the most CLA had a staggering 74% lower risk of breast cancer than the women with the least CLA.
    The most natural and effective way to increase your intake of CLA is to eat the meat and dairy products of grassfed animals.
    A. Aro et al, Kuopio University, Finland; Bougnoux, P, Lavillonniere F, Riboli E. "Inverse relation between CLA in adipose breast tissue and risk of breast cancer. A case-control study in France." Inform 10;5:S43, 1999

    Obesity has reached epidemic proportions in the United States, with one out of every two adults burdened by excess weight. To help trim the fat, Procter and Gamble has given us Olestra, "the no-fat cooking oil with the full-fat flavor." There are a couple of problems with Olestra. First, it cuts down on your body's absorption of beta-carotene and vitamin E. Second, it can cause "bloating, cramping, nausea, and loose stools or diarrhea."
    Nature has given us a healthier alternative to weight control—eat meat from animals raised on fresh pasture. Meat from grassfed animals has about half the fat as meat from grainfed animals and significantly fewer calories. It also gives you a bonus supply of vitamins E, A, D, and beta-carotene.
    Burton P. Koonsvitsky et al, "Olestra Affects Serum Concentrations of Alpha-Tocopherol and Carotenoids" J of Nutrition, Vol. 127 No. 8 August 1997, pp. 1636S-1645S.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    surferdude wrote:
    The danger is in granting authority to enact legislation that the governing body should not be involved in regardless of how well intentioned the legislation is. What research has NYC done regarding trans fat? What departments do they have with this responsibility? Do you see the real problem with this?
    Do you see the problem with no regulation? If you own a restaurant, it goes without saying that you can't knowingly poison your customers. New York just included trans fats with that - a slowly acting poison.

    This won't affect the consumer at all, really. Maybe the prices will go up a few pennies here and there as cooks are required to use natural oils, but customers won't notice otherwise. Our cafeteria here at work recently stopped using trans fats. The only reason I know that now was because someone told me. Everything still tastes the same.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Grassfed bison — the original "Happy Meal?"
    Martin Marchello at the Carrington Research Extension Center has found that grassfed bison have as much as four times more selenium (an essential trace mineral) than grainfed bison. Eating just three ounces of grassfed bison, for example, can give you over 100 mcg. of selenium, which is several times the daily minimum requirement.
    Most of the selenium research has focused on its potential to reduce the risk of cancer, but a 1990 study found that selenium also promotes a sunnier disposition! In this study, volunteers were given either 100 micrograms of selenium or a sugar pill. Those who were given the selenium noticed an improved mood in just two weeks. Eating a small portion of grassfed bison on a daily basis should produce the same results.
    Benton, D. and R. Cook (1990). "Selenium supplementation improves mood in a double-blind crossover trial." Psychopharmacology 102(4): 549-50.

    WARNING: most commercial bison meat is grain fed for faster profits. ground buffalo usually has beef suet added. be careful what you buy.
  • From the CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/12/05/ny.trans.fat.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories):
    "Restaurants will be barred from using most frying oils containing artificial trans fats by July and will have to eliminate the artificial trans fats from all of its foods by July 2008."

    Seriously, do restaurants need a year and a half to changed how they make their food? I understand giving them 6 months to change oil and stuff, but will it really take that long to eliminate them totally?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    From the CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/12/05/ny.trans.fat.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories):
    "Restaurants will be barred from using most frying oils containing artificial trans fats by July and will have to eliminate the artificial trans fats from all of its foods by July 2008."

    Seriously, do restaurants need a year and a half to changed how they make their food? I understand giving them 6 months to change oil and stuff, but will it really take that long to eliminate them totally?
    Probably. Many restaurants may have to change distributors. Some probably have a good deal of inventory to "burn" through. It also likely curbs compliancy expenses for restaurants with a large supply of Crisco on hand.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    The danger is in granting authority to enact legislation that the governing body should not be involved in regardless of how well intentioned the legislation is. What research has NYC done regarding trans fat? What departments do they have with this responsibility? Do you see the real problem with this?
    Like I said, I'd be happy with labeling, but I don't live in New York and if this is what they want, it's up to them. If I did live in New York, I'd be fine with it. If New York is teeming with restaurant patrons who simply MUST have trans-fats, I'm sure they'll make Mayor Bloomberg's life sufficiently miserable that he'll change his tune. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen though. I'm guessing that most people would prefer not to have restaurants slipping deadly ingredients into their food without telling anyone.

    The restaurant industry could have avoided all of this by voluntarily labeling, but they chose not to do that. Too bad for them.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    RainDog wrote:
    Do you see the problem with no regulation? If you own a restaurant, it goes without saying that you can't knowingly poison your customers. New York just included trans fats with that - a slowly acting poison.

    This won't affect the consumer at all, really. Maybe the prices will go up a few pennies here and there as cooks are required to use natural oils, but customers won't notice otherwise. Our cafeteria here at work recently stopped using trans fats. The only reason I know that now was because someone told me. Everything still tastes the same.
    I've never said no regulations. But regulations set by the appropriate level of government .To keep the checks and balances in of good governance in place.
    The FDA should probably outlaw trans fat entirely. But until they do it is an extremely dangerous precident to allow cities to basically do so.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    i'm sure you can find a list of banned drugs and carcinogens the government has banned. and this isn't even a ban. vendors selling prepared food to the public cannot use a substance proven harmful to cook that food. if the government can't do that; then they shouldn't be allowed to require workers to wash their hands after using the bathroom. your point doesn't make sense. you can use all the trans fats you want at home. but what about those who choose NOT to poison themselves? why should they be subject to food prepared with trans fats when they have no control over it?

    I believe my point makes perfects sense.Our government doesn't ban cigerettes yet they atribute to the deaths of thousands in this country.Our government doesn't ban the use of certain foods in resturants that thousands of Americans are allergic to. Have resturants and other eating establishments list on their menus what is prepared using trans fats and that will solve the problem. It should be up to the individual business weither they want to use trans fats or not and up to the consumer weither they want to eat foods containing it. As for your hand washing comment that spreads germs. A waiter who doesn't wash his hands after wiping his ass could easily pass e.coli to customers he/she is serving. Youare trying to compare apples to oranges. My oldest son is severely allergic to nuts yet their is no mention on any menu I have ever seen that states wether the resurant used nuts or peanut oil or peanut flour in any of their foods. I have to ask the waiter to check with the cook and if they do use these products in their kitchen we merely excuse ourselves and explain to our waiter why we can't eat in the establishment. People need to take responisblity for their own well being and not expect the government to do everything for us.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
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