the cheif has to go

Gary Carter

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

see, there is a difference there metsy. the irish are no longer an opressed people in the US. the name was claimed due to the fact that the school's third president was a member of the irish fighting brigade. while there are stereotypes perpetuated at fighting irish games, they are not inherently degrading or intended to mock a people and keep them weak. they are more a charicature of myth. the name was originally intended to instill pride in a predominantly catholic student body and their sports teams.

to some extant irish are still opressed,but very little. racism will always go on

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

using native tribe names, however, has always been a way for the white people to keep their "power" over a culture they have oppressed, and in many cases killed, over the history of both our countries. to see tens of thousands of people dress up in what they believe to be traditional headgear, to chant in what they believe to be "indian" chants, and to do tomohawk motions is simply disgusting. it pays no homage to anyone, and there is no place for it in this day and time. there is no learning that comes from it. people will say, well the cheifs of the tribe have gone along with it, or the tribe agrees with it. well some of them have sold their history because they have to, because they are poor, because they have been oppressed for so long that they no longer know what it feels like to be free and not mocked or ridiculed. some of the cases are merely scams.

people will say, well where does it stop? they'll throw around the term "PC" to make themselves feel better, when it has always been a case of right and wrong. you can't excuse what is wrong and stealing a people's heritage is wrong. naming teams after the colour of skin is wrong. perpetuating stereotypes on the grand scale that collegiate sports teams do is wrong.

the names should never have been used in the first place, and it's high time they were changed, but it's a joke to most people. when atlanta and cleveland played in the world series and their racist mascots and symbols were protested against by native peoples, the ACLU turned a blind eye and the protestors were mocked, recieved racial slurs, and had things thrown at them as people went inside to cheer on their teams (which there is nothing wrong with) and to mock a culture (which there is something wrong with).

we are not your fucking mascots.

dam tim i learned alot just now, thanks for all this

Gary Carter

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

there is a difference, being that ND is a Catholic institution, whereas FSU is not an Indian school.

yeah but its still racism, doesnt make it right that nd fans call pic of jesus "touchdown jesus". its still wrong

JOEJOEJOE

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

see, there is a difference there metsy. the irish are no longer an opressed people in the US. the name was claimed due to the fact that the school's third president was a member of the irish fighting brigade. while there are stereotypes perpetuated at fighting irish games, they are not inherently degrading or intended to mock a people and keep them weak. they are more a charicature of myth. the name was originally intended to instill pride in a predominantly catholic student body and their sports teams.

using native tribe names, however, has always been a way for the white people to keep their "power" over a culture they have oppressed, and in many cases killed, over the history of both our countries. to see tens of thousands of people dress up in what they believe to be traditional headgear, to chant in what they believe to be "indian" chants, and to do tomohawk motions is simply disgusting. it pays no homage to anyone, and there is no place for it in this day and time. there is no learning that comes from it. people will say, well the cheifs of the tribe have gone along with it, or the tribe agrees with it. well some of them have sold their history because they have to, because they are poor, because they have been oppressed for so long that they no longer know what it feels like to be free and not mocked or ridiculed. some of the cases are merely scams.

people will say, well where does it stop? they'll throw around the term "PC" to make themselves feel better, when it has always been a case of right and wrong. you can't excuse what is wrong and stealing a people's heritage is wrong. naming teams after the colour of skin is wrong. perpetuating stereotypes on the grand scale that collegiate sports teams do is wrong.

the names should never have been used in the first place, and it's high time they were changed, but it's a joke to most people. when atlanta and cleveland played in the world series and their racist mascots and symbols were protested against by native peoples, the ACLU turned a blind eye and the protestors were mocked, recieved racial slurs, and had things thrown at them as people went inside to cheer on their teams (which there is nothing wrong with) and to mock a culture (which there is something wrong with).

we are not your fucking mascots.

The Cleveland Indians mascot is quite a goofy charicature of a Native American, which adds fuel to the fire.

mookie blaylock 10

metsfan531941 wrote:

yeah but its still racism, doesnt make it right that nd fans call pic of jesus "touchdown jesus". its still wrong

i didn't know about this. thanks metsy. i'm not a christian, but i can agree with you saying it's wrong.

mookie blaylock 10

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

The Cleveland Indians mascot is quite a goofy charicature of a Native American, which adds fuel to the fire.

indeed. it's as bad as al jolsen in blackface, which is obviously no longer acceptable (for damn good reason), so why is it still ok to use the cleveland mascot, eh?

Gary Carter

mookie blaylock 10 wrote:

i didn't know about this. thanks metsy. i'm not a christian, but i can agree with you saying it's wrong.

welcome tim, heres a pic of touchdown jesus.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/ncf/2002/0711/photo/s_jesus_i.jpg

mookie blaylock 10

metsfan531941 wrote:

welcome tim, heres a pic of touchdown jesus.

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/ncf/2002/0711/photo/s_jesus_i.jpg

yeah, i can definitely see something wrong there.

JOEJOEJOE

metsfan531941 wrote:

yeah but its still racism, doesnt make it right that nd fans call pic of jesus "touchdown jesus". its still wrong

But it is an image being used by a school that is widely accepted as an important institution in the Catholic world, so its more of a self-efacing issue.

Do you see how the FSU use of an Indian is mopre severe then a Catholic school using a TD Jesus?

Gary Carter

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

But it is an image being used by a school that is widely accepted as an important institution in the Catholic world, so its more of a self-efacing issue.

Do you see how the FSU use of an Indian is mopre severe then a Catholic school using a TD Jesus?

yeah i do, but its still racism. racism is racism, even if its a catholic symbol

JOEJOEJOE

metsfan531941 wrote:

yeah i do, but its still racism. racism is racism, even if its a catholic symbol

I agree, but if a large Catholic institution chooses to have a racist symbol, at least they are being that way towards their own!

present address

wow i am racist wow......... because most of you dont know the history about the illini.... how oppressed he is........ never have i ever heard anyone make fun of him that has gone to that school........ and sorry i cant spell but i dont studddderrrr joejoejoe

JOEJOEJOE

present address wrote:

wow i am racist wow......... because most of you dont know the history about the illini.... how oppressed he is........ never have i ever heard anyone make fun of him that has gone to that school........ and sorry i cant spell but i dont studddderrrr joejoejoe

oh, so not only are you a racist, but you are against those who stutter!

present address

joe you should be careful calling people names that is very small of you....and i guess my native ancestry isnt enough to let me talk on points like this....

mookie blaylock 10

present address wrote:

cheif illiniwik or however you spell it ......... well he cant do his dance and now the soix want the costum back and the eagle feathers from the head dress....... this is just crazy stuff going on.... the original reason for the cheif was to pay homage to the indians of illinois and now its degrading.......... ok so if i hit you for 50 years or so in the face your not going to do anything about it until year 51? that is when you stand up and say hey stop hitting me..... come on native americans should be happy they get to live on in mascots ..... not hate mascots that represent them..... seminole indians where upset when the ncaa wanted to get ride of the indian names...... well i guess we will always have the redskins..... thank god

i couldn't tell from this post if you were being sarcastic or not, but your other posts tell me that you were not. it was also very difficult to understand what you were trying to say, so that is another reason i thought it was sarcasm.

first, it's Chief Illiniwek. second, it's sioux.

the original reason, in most of these cases that native heritage, custom and people have been turned into mascots is not to honour them, but to appease the predominantly white population's guilt for the degrading acts of their ancestors so that they may sleep well at night. fifty years ago, what rights did native people have? do you think they would have been able to stand up and say that they disagreed?

having a person or people live on in a statue, a memorial, or a town name is one thing, but to have them "live on" in the form of a mascot is degrading. there is no place for native heritage as entertainment at halftime, as someone (usually white) dressed up in traditional garb and dancing on the sidelines, or as a symbol for a sports team.

some more information on the hearings...you can click on the people to hear their statements...notice no native people were asked to speak, and only the african american speaker from the NCAA spoke out against the use of the native heritage in the hearing. the white student who used to "play" the chief was misleading in his statement.




December 15, 2006

They called it a "congressional field hearing" to examine Tim Johnson's and disgraced House Speaker Dennis Hastert's “Protection of University Governance Act of 2006” (HR 5289). It ended up being a stacked Republican attempt to shame the NCAA for pushing us closer to ending the use of a racist mascot at UIUC.

However, Bernard Franklin of the NCAA held his ground and received support from Professor Steven Kaufman and Democratic congressman, Danny K Davis (IL). Not one American Indian was present as an official witness despite ample representation available at UIUC's Native American House and American Indian Studies program. (See the below interview of Professor Debbie Reese for more on this subject).

The hearing was heavily policed and no one was allowed entrance who openly wore t-shirts with anti-racism messages. Police at the entrance made people remove their shirts or turn them inside-out - while crowd members with mascot emblems and "chief" written on their shirts passed right through with open arms.

This attempt to silence dissent was reinforced by Republican Chairman of the committee, Howard McKeon (CA) when he began the session by saying, "We will not have any response from the audience.. Please if you would just not respond to anything that is being said."


Chapin Rose (R)
Illinois State Representative
Mahomet, IL

"What is it that leads to the audacity of a quasi institution like the NCAA to ignore a resolution of one of the largest states in the nation? I think the answer is simple. As we would say down here in Southern Illinois, the NCAA has gotten too big for it's britches"


Bernard Franklin
Senior Vice President for Governance, Membership, Education, and Research Services
National Collegiate Athletic Association
Washington, DC


"The NCAA policy is fairly simple and straightforward. It was designed to align the core principles of cultural diversity, civility, respect and nondiscrimination with the practice of creating an educational environment at NCAA championship events. Its primary purpose is to maintain NCAA championships as an environment that promotes an atmosphere of respect for, and sensitivity to, the dignity of every person. These are core issues memorialized by the membership in the NCAA constitution that clearly are to be addressed and protected by execution of the duties of the Executive Committee."


Howard Wakeland
President
Honor the "chief" Society
Urbana, IL

"This Congressional hearing is not about "Chief" illiiniwek at the University of Illinois nor Indian imagery found in intercollegiate sports. This is about actions of a powerful private de facto monopolistic organization which controls most aspects of US intercollegiate sports activity. This is about an organization which by-in-large has provided strong positive leadership and control for intercollegiate athletics. This is about how this powerful organization has undertaken a Political Correctness initiative illegally, as defined by their own constitution, and by the terms of the contract they have with their institutional members."


Dr. Stephen Kaufman
Professor
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

"The University of Illinois Board of Trustees has claimed sole authority over the mascot issue, yet they refuse to engage in meaningful discussion and they have silenced the university's administration from speaking out. Likewise, coaches and student athletes have been silenced, and former chancellor Michael Aiken issued a directive prohibiting anyone in the university from informing potential student athletes about the mascot issue."


Brent Holmes
Attorney
Mattoon, IL

"Many Illinoisians with Native American blood have publicly stated that they are honored by the University of Illinois' symbol, "chief" illiniwek, which represents the loftiest principles of the human spirit-loyalty, wisdom, courage, strength, leadership, bravery and dignity."


John Madigan
Former "chief" illiniwek
St. Louis, MO

"To associate "chief" illiniwek with the terms "hostile and abusive" is incredibly appalling to me. As a major part of my role as "chief" illiniwek, I formally spoke and presented to thousands of people in hundreds of different civic groups and schools regarding the role and what it meant and symbolized to the University of Illinois."



from later interviews after the hearing...




Danny Davis
Congressman, IL


"I am somewhat amazed and disappointed that in the land of Lincoln, the home of our great president, Abraham, that the trustees of this great institution have not seen fit to eliminate as a mascot a name that is offensive to some people in our country ... especially to Native Americans who were in fact the first citizens that we know about in this country."


Debbie Reese Nambe-Pueblo
Professor
American Indian Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

"Neither Madigan or Johnson or Chapin Rose, any of the pro-"chief" people on that panel have ever - ever gotten in touch with me or come over to the Native American House, Native Studies program, nada."


Brenda Farnell
Professor
Anthropology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

"I am very alarmed at the level of both mis-information and lack of information that the members of the inquiry displayed. They haven't done their homework. They misrepresented the lack of participation of the Peoria Tribe and tried to pretend that there was involvement from the Native point of view and there was none. And that's unforgivable."

http://iresist.org/

mookie blaylock 10

you can watch and hear the words of native americans in illinois here...this is how they feel about being "mascots"

http://www.retirethechief.org/notamascot.html

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Hey, when someone calls Notre Dame "The Fighting Irish", you don't see me fly off the handle.

present address

"I am somewhat amazed and disappointed that in the land of Lincoln, the home of our great president, Abraham, that the trustees of this great institution have not seen fit to eliminate as a mascot a name that is offensive to some people in our country ... especially to Native Americans who were in fact the first citizens that we know about in this country."

the congressman that said this is not versed in history at all......
lincoln said if he could save the union by freeing all the slaves he would... if he could free half the slaves and save the union he would and if by freeing non of the slaves he could save the union he would have...........the civil war was about saving the union......and slavery is what drove it apart.....

thats another thread......... every summer i go to wisconsin and raft and spend time on the reservation and conversations alway involve the government and rights and things like that but the mascot issue never seems to bother them.... it doesnt affect their everyday life and the struggle to survive........

... why arent people in MN mad about their football teams name...

mookie blaylock 10

bump for current discussion...

he still stands

In this era of political correctness, Chief Illiniwek is the latest casualty. The spirit he brought to the great University of Illinois will be missed.

Eventually I think the U of I will have to change their mascot name -- probably within another 20 years (thats how long it took to get Illiniwek to stop dancing).

Byrnzie

I can't understand a single one of the posts on this fucking thread. What the fuck are you on/on about?

Edit: I should have said page one of the thread. Total gibberish.