Msnbc poll is currently showing 89% want Bush impeached

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  • Number 18
    Number 18 Posts: 132
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No -- they simply have to clear their cookies.

    All MSNBC has to do is log people's IP addresses. Clear your cookies all you want, you cannot get around IP logging.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    :D

    "MoveOn has not officially taken up the cause for Bush/Cheney impeachment; however, they have quietly initiated an online survey entitled "Dealing with the Administration". Ironically, MoveOn's reluctance to act more forcefully has led to yet another online petition, "It's Time for MoveOn to Start Talking about Impeachment", endorsed by Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, with more than 2,500 additional signatures."

    LOL...

    The fact of the matter is that the American people probably are lukewarm at best to the idea of impeachment, regardless of what MSNBC says.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Number 18 wrote:
    All MSNBC has to do is log people's IP addresses. Clear your cookies all you want, you cannot get around IP logging.

    See my post above. IP logging could be used, but it has bad side effects. For example, if you're working in an office, it's very likely that all of the PCs is your offce would appear to have the same IP address to MSNBC. If you have more than one PC at home, this would also be the case.

    Blocking based on IPs effectively bans huge parts of the population from even voting.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...

    The fact of the matter is that the American people probably are lukewarm at best to the idea of impeachment, regardless of what MSNBC says.


    I don't know if that's a fact especially when you use the word probably.

    I was pretty encouraged by some of the numbers in that link you gave, actually. And it's now 2008...everyone is buzzing about politics on the election year. I'd be curious to see some more recent polls. It's not about how soon he'll be out of office, it's about the fact that this admin lied to the people and broke laws.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    See my post above. IP logging could be used, but it has bad side effects. For example, if you're working in an office, it's very likely that all of the PCs is your offce would appear to have the same IP address to MSNBC. If you have more than one PC at home, this would also be the case.

    Blocking based on IPs effectively bans huge parts of the population from even voting.


    That may be true but it still represents correctly the people who did get the chance to vote....so it's a sample out of those people.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't know if that's a fact especially when you use the word probably.

    I was pretty encouraged by some of the numbers in that link you gave, actually. And it's now 2008...everyone is buzzing about politics on the election year. I'd be curious to see some more recent polls. It's not about how soon he'll be out of office, it's about the fact that this admin lied to the people and broke laws.

    LOL...if lies and broken laws are your standards for impeachment, we best not even bother voting for president.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That may be true but it still represents correctly the people who did get the chance to vote....so it's a sample out of those people.

    No matter how you conduct the poll, you'll get a sample of your voters. If I poll only black people on the question "Are you a white person?", I'll get "a sample out of those [who did get the chance to vote]". That, however, doesn't mean that white people don't exist.

    Online polls skew the sample to online users. Furthermore, on news stories, they then further skew the sample to online users interested in your story. In this case, those actively interested in impeaching the president would be far more likely to read and share that story as would those who either don't care or would be more negative to impeachment.

    Again, look no further than online polls that showed Ron Paul dominating the Republican primary. There you can see the significant risk to polls done in an unscientific manner.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    My take...
    Save your money. Impeachment hearings are expensive and you end up with a lot of blow-hard politician ass wipes getting way too much aire time.
    Bush is contained. He cannot unilaterally start a war... he has no authority, this time. We can just deny his idiotic requests... override his partisan vetoes and just wait out this long horrible nightmare for the next 6 months.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...if lies and broken laws are your standards for impeachment, we best not even bother voting for president.

    So what would qualify as grounds for impeachment for you?
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...if lies and broken laws are your standards for impeachment, we best not even bother voting for president.

    Quit being so apathetic. ;)

    Lies that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousand of people I would say are a bit more impeachable...
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    So what would qualify as grounds for impeachment for you?

    Significant abuses of presidential authority. Based on the standards of many who supported the Clinton impeachment or Bush impeachment, half of American presidents should have been impeached.

    This dickhead will be out of office in a few months. Rather than focusing on impeaching him, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on not electing another dickhead?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No matter how you conduct the poll, you'll get a sample of your voters. If I poll only black people on the question "Are you a white person?", I'll get "a sample out of those [who did get the chance to vote]". That, however, doesn't mean that white people don't exist.


    Online polls skew the sample to online users. Furthermore, on news stories, they then further skew the sample to online users interested in your story. In this case, those actively interested in impeaching the president would be far more likely to read and share that story as would those who either don't care or would be more negative to impeachment.

    Again, look no further than online polls that showed Ron Paul dominating the Republican primary. There you can see the significant risk to polls done in an unscientific manner.

    I never claimed it meant that other opinions didn't exist. I claimed that out of these 600,000 voters 89% want Bush impeached.

    So why wouldn't people who don't want Bush impeached want to pass this poll along and to people who agree with them to get better results for their stance?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Quit being so apathetic. ;)

    Lies that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousand of people I would say are a bit more impeachable...

    George Bush's "lies" (which haven't even been demostrated to be more than exaggerations and stupid assumptions) weren't the only thing that "lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousand of people". George Bush could have run around telling all the lies he wanted to and no one would have died. It took much more than lying to lead to this mess.
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Significant abuses of presidential authority. Based on the standards of many who supported the Clinton impeachment or Bush impeachment, half of American presidents should have been impeached.

    This dickhead will be out of office in a few months. Rather than focusing on impeaching him, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on not electing another dickhead?

    Well, if you had said lies and possible broken laws, I'd have agreed with you. But you seemed to be giving carte blanche to the president to break laws willy-nilly without batting an eyelid.

    I do think Bush should be impeached, but like you say, it's hard to pin any specific charge on him. The slimy bastard. ;)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Significant abuses of presidential authority. Based on the standards of many who supported the Clinton impeachment or Bush impeachment, half of American presidents should have been impeached.

    Maybe they would be less apt to abuse their power if the people actually started holding them accountable. What a concept!
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This dickhead will be out of office in a few months. Rather than focusing on impeaching him, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on not electing another dickhead?


    I can do both. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I never claimed it meant that other opinions didn't exist. I claimed that out of these 600,000 voters 89% want Bush impeached.

    And that would be correct. However, these 600,000 voters are 0.2% of the American population and, unless this is the most miraculous online poll in history, do not represent the American population.
    So why wouldn't people who don't want Bush impeached want to pass this poll along and to people who agree with them to get better results for their stance?

    Because the psychology is very different. People who are for impeachment are much more passionate than people against it. Furthermore, once one side is visibly winning a poll, those on the other side are less likely to share it as they have to show their opinion is a minority opinion.

    There's a reason that this thread wasn't started by someone else and wasn't titled "Msnbc poll is currently showing 11% don't want Bush impeached".
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    George Bush's "lies" (which haven't even been demostrated to be more than exaggerations and stupid assumptions) weren't the only thing that "lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people". George Bush could have run around telling all the lies he wanted to and no one would have died. It took much more than lying to lead to this mess.

    But he gave the orders, no? Was it not his decision?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And that would be correct. However, these 600,000 voters are 0.2% of the American population and, unless this is the most miraculous online poll in history, do not represent the American population.

    So you don't take stock in any polls then? Since every poll is only a sample of the population...

    farfromglorified wrote:
    Because the psychology is very different. People who are for impeachment are much more passionate than people against it. Furthermore, once one side is visibly winning a poll, those on the other side are less likely to share it as they have to show their opinion is a minority opinion.

    I don't understand that. I fight for issues in which I'm in the minority all the time.

    And I remember the people that support Bush as being pretty passionate about it. Remember the Dixie Chicks?


    farfromglorified wrote:
    There's a reason that this thread wasn't started by someone else and wasn't titled "Msnbc poll is currently showing 11% don't want Bush impeached".

    Might have something to do with not having any Bush supporters here, also.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    Well, if you had said lies and possible broken laws, I'd have agreed with you. But you seemed to be giving carte blanche to the president to break laws willy-nilly without batting an eyelid.

    If the president runs a stop sign, I don't think we should impeach him. If he lies under oath during a witchhunt, I don't think we should impeach him. If he exaggerates a bunch of "evidence" that he probably believes and Congress gives him authority to launch a foolish and disastrous war, I don't think we should impeach him.

    If the president seriously oversteps his bounds and violates core Constitutional principles or commits high crimes, then I absolutely would support impeachment.

    If that's giving the president "carte blanche", so be it.

    Presidential impeachment is a safety valve against dangerous official abuse, not a tool for political commentary. Impeaching George Bush, particularly at this point, does nothing to make this country more safe from abuse.
    I do think Bush should be impeached, but like you say, it's hard to pin any specific charge on him. The slimy bastard. ;)

    That's the thing -- the Clinton impeachment was more fact-based than would be the Bush impeachment, even if it was more frivilous and pointless. The problems associated with George Bush are much larger than George Bush. Impeachment is nothing more than a vidictive waste of time.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    If the president runs a stop sign, I don't think we should impeach him. If he lies under oath during a witchhunt, I don't think we should impeach him. If he exaggerates a bunch of "evidence" that he probably believes and Congress gives him authority to launch a foolish and disastrous war, I don't think we should impeach him.

    If the president seriously oversteps his bounds and violates core Constitutional principles or commits high crimes, then I absolutely would support impeachment.

    If that's giving the president "carte blanche", so be it.

    Presidential impeachment is a safety valve against dangerous official abuse, not a tool for political commentary. Impeaching George Bush, particularly at this point, does nothing to make this country more safe from abuse.



    That's the thing -- the Clinton impeachment was more fact-based than would be the Bush impeachment, even if it was more frivilous and pointless. The problems associated with George Bush are much larger than George Bush. Impeachment is nothing more than a vidictive waste of time.

    According to Ron Paul, Bush has broke core Constitutional principles...such as warrentless wiretapping and spying.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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