Debating the Role of Third Parties

Rhinocerous Surprise

Strangest Tribe wrote:

explain please.

maybe you don't see my point.

I mean... I know what a blanket statement is but I don't see it in this context.

Yeah, I can write it off from my experiences, high ideals -- no support

That's simple...frustrating yes


..but it's the truth

why are you arguing???

My point is you're writing off an entire party based on 2 bad experiences with it. You don't like the way the Green Party worked, that's fine - no one's forcing you to. But you labeled an awful lot of people lazy and unmotivated, when you have little or no experience with the vast majority of them.

Abookamongstthemany

Strangest Tribe wrote:

It's only insulting if it applies.

I just find there's a lot of people that like to talk politics, but they can't ever find the time or money to support their ideals.

When you sign your name on a list that's interested in supporting (a third party) at least return courtesy phone calls. I'd rather be told to "fuck off I'm no longer interested" than be given the runaround.

Young people are being generalized here btw (more so than older supporters)

If you have done political work you know how it goes.

I have and am....and I certainly don't share the same insulting and stereotypical views that you seem to hold about all the the people I've come in contact with. Most of them have huge hearts and lots of determination. Writing an entire group of people off to fit your own single, subjective view seems too easy.

I view apathy as a waaay bigger problem than laziness. If people felt they had something to really gain by getting out there and trying to make a difference then they would. But they feel powerless especially when they look around at how things have been going and how little change ever comes our way.

flywallyfly

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I view apathy as a waaay bigger problem than laziness. If people felt they had something to really gain by getting out there and trying to make a difference then they would. But they feel powerless especially when they look around at how things have been going and how little change ever comes our way.

I think apathy is a huge problem as well but I also think laziness and ignorance are huge as well. I know it sounds like stereotyping but there are a large number of Americans that are just plain lazy. Seriously. As far as ignorance as to what is going on politically i blame two things : (1) the two year 24 hour coverage running up to the election. Your average Joe just gets sick of nonstop political bickering. (2) People that know absolutely nothing about candidates/policies yet go and vote because they are supposed to. I cannot tell you the sinking feeling i always get when they show the polls right before an election where you have like 15% - 20% undecided voters. How the hell are you undecided the day of an election?

Rhinocerous Surprise

flywallyfly wrote:

I think apathy is a huge problem as well but I also think laziness and ignorance are huge as well. I know it sounds like stereotyping but there are a large number of Americans that are just plain lazy. Seriously. As far as ignorance as to what is going on politically i blame two things : (1) the two year 24 hour coverage running up to the election. Your average Joe just gets sick of nonstop political bickering. (2) People that know absolutely nothing about candidates/policies yet go and vote because they are supposed to. I cannot tell you the sinking feeling i always get when they show the polls right before an election where you have like 15% - 20% undecided voters. How the hell are you undecided the day of an election?

I think the three are pretty much cyclical. If you're apathetic, you're not gonna make the effort to inform yourself, and if you're not informed, you're gonna be pretty apathetic. I know that out of maybe... 30 people I'd hang out with in college, maybe 4 of us are even registered, and you'd be lucky if two of them bothered to inform themselves or vote.

Strangest Tribe

so the "blanket statement" I made about them being the most intelligent people on earth is acceptable

but


the "blanket statement" I made about them being lazy is insulting.


....hmmmm


but in certain words third party's have a small group of dedicated people.

so I would take back what I said...I don't believe the "small" group of dedicated people were lazy.

They just don't realize yet that they are going to have to work twice as hard as the republicans and democrats.
So they probably shouldn't be arguing politics on a band's fan site.

but that's just my opinion.

call it a blanket statement.

Abookamongstthemany

Strangest Tribe wrote:

so the "blanket statement" I made about them being the most intelligent people on earth is acceptable

but


the "blanket statement" I made about them being lazy is insulting.


....hmmmm


but in certain words third party's have a small group of dedicated people.

so I would take back what I said...I don't believe the "small" group of dedicated people were lazy.

They just don't realize yet that they are going to have to work twice as hard as the republicans and democrats.
So they probably shouldn't be arguing politics on a band's fan site.

but that's just my opinion.

call it a blanket statement.

People generally don't take too well to backhanded compliments.

And the internet is an extremely valuable tool in modern day politics....just ask Ron Paul's campaign or Barack Obama's for that matter.

decides2dream

unsung wrote:

The best thing this country could have happen to it would be a third party that had power and was electable on the national stage.

agreed.


however, i did not look at all the links posted, i just read the article in the second post...and as we know, nader is running as an independent, sans any party affiliation, yes? so how is it truly about a 3rd party? he's simply his own man, running....

i really don't see much to 'debate' about 3rd parties...b/c i don't think enough is going on yet TO debate, quite honestly. sure...you hear about them here or there, but really...i don't think any of em have gotten strong enough just yet. i don't blame the media for that either, or at least not entirely. i think of it as 'growing pains' perhaps...getting footing, figuring themselves out, their agenda and their identity out...or at least i hope so. i do think ANY party, no matter how great...truly have their work cut out for them to crack the big 2. for far too long we've had a 2 party system, and people in general are so resistant to change, even good change....but it CAN happen, and i'd like to see it so.



btw - urban...thanks for that info, very interesting...although i have to say, as it stands...i don't think that's too crazy in all honesty. for the very reasons you point out. perhaps once there are well-established 3rd parties, it would be a non-issue...but otherwise, if you are a candidate all on your own, yes, i DO think their should be steps, etc, b/c yea...make sure your serious about being on a ballot and not just wasting time/resources. i don't see that as the problem. not a big one, anyway. you want to say many/most 3rd parties/candidates get shut out oftentimes...THAT i will agree with. however, i don't know how to change that either. elsewhere i think someone had made an excellent post about campaign reform, not the first time such has been bandied about either. that is most definitely a needed change to at all open it up for a fair system for more parties, etc. i don't know why we as americans don't fight more for it. we seem to be a nation with much hatred of monopolies, yet we allow it in our political system to a ridiculous extent. bizarre.