Debating the Role of Third Parties

Abookamongstthemany
Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
edited June 2008 in A Moving Train
pt1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw1Aji8FzJc&feature=user

pt2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVRevKOtSh0

pt3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC8g7YNmCpM

pt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zece3k884R0


pt5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Jw2cI0-sI
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080430/NEWS01/804300355/1002/NEWS01

    Ralph Nader swings through Vermont, still taking swipes at the political system

    April 30, 2008

    .By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau

    A fan poses with Ralph Nader holding a T-shirt he gave her outside of the Ben and Jerry’s ice cream shop in Montpelier on Tuesday. Nader was in the Mad River Valley hosting a fundraiser for his presidential campaign and then stopped by City Center where people were lining up on free cone day.

    MONTPELIER — Ralph Nader answers the question of why he is running for president of the United States once again with the same patience and care that made him a household name for the unglamorous work of researching consumer protection lawsuits.

    The events and years since he first ran in 1992, then in 1996, 2000 and 2004, haven't changed his view that there isn't enough difference between Democrats and Republicans.

    Running is how you hold them to account, Nader said in an impromptu campaign interview in Montpelier on Tuesday evening. If he did not run for the office the candidates of the two major national political parties would not move their platforms toward talking about his issues of corporate control, livable wages and consumer protection, Nader said.

    "It's a two-party elected dictatorship," said Nader, 74.

    If the former Green Party candidate-turned-independent is chagrined by the election of George W. Bush and defeat of Al Gore in 2000, for which many Democrats blame him, he isn't showing it, despite shots at him, such as in a new book called "What Was Ralph Nader Thinking?"

    "Don't think that Gore would not have had an interest in attacking Iraq," Nader said. "Clinton bombed Iraq more than a few times," not to mention imposing sanctions that devastated the country, the candidate said.

    "Not only did Democrats not stop Bush's madness, but they refused to impeach him," Nader added.

    As for the current major party candidates there are a series of issues they don't talk about — from single-payer health care to opening up the presidential debates, Nader said.And if he is not on the ballot it means he cannot challenge the rules and court rulings that make it difficult for third party or independent candidates to get on state ballots, Nader said.

    Candidates' rights are where civil rights were seven decades ago, Nader said. Some states require large numbers of verified signatures — tens of thousands in some cases — to be gathered before a candidate is on the ballot. In others, members of the major parties or those beholden to them, either elected officials or judges, toss out signatures arbitrarily or change the rules for qualifying to be on the ballot.

    Still, Nader's candidacy is not attracting the kind of attention it once did.

    "I didn't even know he was in Vermont, so I guess that says something," said Rob Roper, head of the state's Republican Party. "If Ralph Nader wants to run for president I think that is great. Let him do it."

    "Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are highly qualified candidates," said Jill Kowinski, executive director of the Vermont Democratic Party. "We are focused on winning the White House back for Democrats."

    Vermont, requiring only 1,000 verified signatures, is ahead of most of the rest of the country in terms of allowing third party and independent candidates a shot, Nader said.

    "Vermont is arguably the most democratic state in the country," Nader said. "They have a historic tradition and it lingers. I attribute most of it to the town meeting form of government and the fact that people can become the Legislature."

    Besides, "it's part of my policy of going to every state," Nader said.

    Getting on the ballot was one reason to come to Vermont, said Nader, who lives in Washington, D.C., and Connecticut.

    The other was to raise money. He gathered a few thousand dollars here, Nader said. He was at a fundraiser in the Mad River Valley before his stop in Montpelier

    He hopes to get $10 million total and to use his campaign to launch a Congressional watchdog effort, Nader said. Nothing like that exists now, he said.

    "I used to say corporations have a lot of influence in Washington. Now I say corporations are our government," Nader said.

    So why does he keep running?

    "Are you going to quit and go to Monterey and watch the whales or Vermont and watch the cows?" he said.

    As for retirement, "I don't know the meaning of the word," Nader said. "That's a relatively modern idea, it came with the Industrial Revolution."
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    And you wanna tell me these mainstream candidate's popularity is not due to media exposure, tv airtime, spin and big business money? I'm calling bullshit.


    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WEny4qlPDJw
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    The best thing this country could have happen to it would be a third party that had power and was electable on the national stage.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    unsung wrote:
    The best thing this country could have happen to it would be a third party that had power and was electable on the national stage.


    They'd have to get some exposure from the media to gain those things and as it stands they are being shut out.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Bumper cars for those not in the other third party thread
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    I bumping this so I end up subscribed to it and can then have a reminder to revisit it when it isn't so late and my brain isn't fried. Thanks in advance for everyone's understanding.

    Please feel free to add to the actual topic of discussion. Thanks, again.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    From http://www.exordia.net/morevoterchoice/

    These rules apply to Washington State.

    "Did you know there are two sets of rules governing who gets onto your ballot?

    Now - What Republicans and Democrats have to do: Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee.

    Candidates other than the Republican and Democratic Parties have to:

    *Run an ad in the newspaper under public notices.

    *Hold a “Nominating Convention” sometime within a one week period in May.

    *Ask voters, during a single day, to say they attended the “Nominating convention” and sign so candidates can apply to be on the ballot.

    *Must gather signatures at the same address advertised in the newspaper ad.

    *Gather 100 perfect signatures if running for state legislature or county office. Gather 1,000 perfect signatures for all other partisan offices. This means gather 200 or 2,000 signatures in reality. (My own note on this: If you only collect 99 signatures during a given period, none of them count. 100 signatures is the minimum.)

    *The state or county verifies signatures. If one is lacking, candidate does not get on the ballot.

    *Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee. "

    This whole system pisses me off. I can understand having some hurdles to jump through to discourage every yahoo and shock jock from getting their names on the ballots, but some of this is ridiculous.

    People in our small towns who would like to help petition to get Nader (or any other non-mainstream party) on the ballot have little chance of being successful within these parameters.

    Voter disenfranchisement? I think so.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    From http://www.exordia.net/morevoterchoice/

    These rules apply to Washington State.

    "Did you know there are two sets of rules governing who gets onto your ballot?

    Now - What Republicans and Democrats have to do: Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee.

    Candidates other than the Republican and Democratic Parties have to:

    *Run an ad in the newspaper under public notices.

    *Hold a “Nominating Convention” sometime within a one week period in May.

    *Ask voters, during a single day, to say they attended the “Nominating convention” and sign so candidates can apply to be on the ballot.

    *Must gather signatures at the same address advertised in the newspaper ad.

    *Gather 100 perfect signatures if running for state legislature or county office. Gather 1,000 perfect signatures for all other partisan offices. This means gather 200 or 2,000 signatures in reality. (My own note on this: If you only collect 99 signatures during a given period, none of them count. 100 signatures is the minimum.)

    *The state or county verifies signatures. If one is lacking, candidate does not get on the ballot.

    *Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee. "

    This whole system pisses me off. I can understand having some hurdles to jump through to discourage every yahoo and shock jock from getting their names on the ballots, but some of this is ridiculous.

    People in our small towns who would like to help petition to get Nader (or any other non-mainstream party) on the ballot have little chance of being successful within these parameters.

    Voter disenfranchisement? I think so.

    Good post! Thanks
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Since this seems to be a hot topic for this week, I'm gonna give it another bump for all those interested. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    From http://www.exordia.net/morevoterchoice/

    These rules apply to Washington State.

    "Did you know there are two sets of rules governing who gets onto your ballot?

    Now - What Republicans and Democrats have to do: Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee.

    Candidates other than the Republican and Democratic Parties have to:

    *Run an ad in the newspaper under public notices.

    *Hold a “Nominating Convention” sometime within a one week period in May.

    *Ask voters, during a single day, to say they attended the “Nominating convention” and sign so candidates can apply to be on the ballot.

    *Must gather signatures at the same address advertised in the newspaper ad.

    *Gather 100 perfect signatures if running for state legislature or county office. Gather 1,000 perfect signatures for all other partisan offices. This means gather 200 or 2,000 signatures in reality. (My own note on this: If you only collect 99 signatures during a given period, none of them count. 100 signatures is the minimum.)

    *The state or county verifies signatures. If one is lacking, candidate does not get on the ballot.

    *Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee. "

    This whole system pisses me off. I can understand having some hurdles to jump through to discourage every yahoo and shock jock from getting their names on the ballots, but some of this is ridiculous.

    People in our small towns who would like to help petition to get Nader (or any other non-mainstream party) on the ballot have little chance of being successful within these parameters.

    Voter disenfranchisement? I think so.

    Exactly!

    Killer Post/Information!!!
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    From http://www.exordia.net/morevoterchoice/

    These rules apply to Washington State.

    "Did you know there are two sets of rules governing who gets onto your ballot?

    Now - What Republicans and Democrats have to do: Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee.

    Candidates other than the Republican and Democratic Parties have to:

    *Run an ad in the newspaper under public notices.

    *Hold a “Nominating Convention” sometime within a one week period in May.

    *Ask voters, during a single day, to say they attended the “Nominating convention” and sign so candidates can apply to be on the ballot.

    *Must gather signatures at the same address advertised in the newspaper ad.

    *Gather 100 perfect signatures if running for state legislature or county office. Gather 1,000 perfect signatures for all other partisan offices. This means gather 200 or 2,000 signatures in reality. (My own note on this: If you only collect 99 signatures during a given period, none of them count. 100 signatures is the minimum.)

    *The state or county verifies signatures. If one is lacking, candidate does not get on the ballot.

    *Sign up as a candidate and pay the fee. "

    This whole system pisses me off. I can understand having some hurdles to jump through to discourage every yahoo and shock jock from getting their names on the ballots, but some of this is ridiculous.

    People in our small towns who would like to help petition to get Nader (or any other non-mainstream party) on the ballot have little chance of being successful within these parameters.

    Voter disenfranchisement? I think so.

    c'mon now!!!

    This is not asking too much, sounds like something I could do any league night at my local bowling alley.

    This is what aggravated me when I was a Green. We had thousands of signatures and interested people, but when it came to a fund raiser we always had to cancel because no-one volunteered to work.

    Oh yeah, this sounds like a lot of work... if you're a lazy sod!!!!

    The problem with the traditional third party idealists is they are too lazy to spring to action. There's always a concert, or an online game of World of Warcraft, or a comic book convention and they just can't take action.

    What's terrible is they are the most intelligent people on the planet they just don't have any motivation.

    The Republicans and Democrats however, their hobby IS politics. There's a difference.

    Get off the couch, turn off the computer and actually change things thru action. We can talk about ideals all day.
    the Minions
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    c'mon now!!!

    This is not asking too much, sounds like something I could do any league night at my local bowling alley.

    This is what aggravated me when I was a Green. We had thousands of signatures and interested people, but when it came to a fund raiser we always had to cancel because no-one volunteered to work.

    Oh yeah, this sounds like a lot of work... if you're a lazy sod!!!!

    The problem with the traditional third party idealists is they are too lazy to spring to action. There's always a concert, or an online game of World of Warcraft, or a comic book convention and they just can't take action.

    What's terrible is they are the most intelligent people on the planet they just don't have any motivation.

    The Republicans and Democrats however, their hobby IS politics. There's a difference.

    Get off the couch, turn off the computer and actually change things thru action. We can talk about ideals all day.


    :rolleyes:

    What a moronic post filled with blanket statements, void of facts and full of idiocy. And nader supporters are the bashers around here. Yeeaah.

    Democrats and Republican's hobbies are gaining power, influence and money. Politics is just the game they play to get them.

    The ones who are in it against the odds fighting the uphill battles year after year are the ones who are in because it matters to them and they believing in fighting the good fight and doing what they believe is right....because they know no one else is going to do it for them.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    What a moronic post filled with blanket statements, void of facts and full of idiocy. And nader supporters are the bashers around here. Yeeaah.

    Democrats and Republican's hobbies are gaining power, influence and money. Politics is just the game they play to get them.

    The ones who are in it against the odds fighting the uphill battles year after year are the ones who are in because it matters to them and they believing in fighting the good fight and doing what they believe is right....because they know no one else is going to do it for them.

    void of facts??? blanket statement???

    what am I supposed to post a link to my own experiences and opinions?

    some people around here think you should have some basis for every post.
    I can't credibly share my own experiences. I am a card carrying Green, maybe I should take a picture of my credentials.... :rollseyesback:
    the Minions
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    void of facts??? blanket statement???

    what am I supposed to post a link to my own experiences and opinions?

    some people around here think you should have some basis for every post.
    I can't credibly share my own experiences. I am a card carrying Green, maybe I should take a picture of my credentials.... :rollseyesback:


    Umm... yeah. :p
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    void of facts??? blanket statement???

    what am I supposed to post a link to my own experiences and opinions?

    some people around here think you should have some basis for every post.
    I can't credibly share my own experiences. I am a card carrying Green, maybe I should take a picture of my credentials.... :rollseyesback:


    You're the one making claims about entire groups of people when you couldn't possible know any of it. It's petty and very telling. When all else fails and you can't make your points any other way....out come the insults. And it's the first sign that you don't have anything of substance left to come back with.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    You're the one making claims about entire groups of people when you couldn't possible know any of it. It's petty and very telling. When all else fails and you can't make your points any other way....out come the insults. And it's the first sign that you don't have anything of substance left to come back with.

    I'm sorry I don't have any youtube links I can post from the 2 Green Party fundraisers I was part of that were cancelled in 2004 due to lack of interest.

    Maybe I can dig up some RSVP's and take a picture of those as well.
    the Minions
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    I'm sorry I don't have any youtube links I can post from the 2 Green Party fundraisers I was part of that were cancelled in 2004 due to lack of interest.

    Maybe I can dig up some RSVP's and take a picture of those as well.


    Actually, it would be nice if you'd simply add to the conversation instead of being insulting....but whatever works for you.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    I'm sorry I don't have any youtube links I can post from the 2 Green Party fundraisers I was part of that were cancelled in 2004 due to lack of interest.

    Maybe I can dig up some RSVP's and take a picture of those as well.

    2 fundraisers get cancelled and the entire party's a write-off? Less a blanket statement, more a fully-fledged carpet statement. :eek:
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Actually, it would be nice if you'd simply add to the conversation instead of being insulting....but whatever works for you.

    It's only insulting if it applies.

    I just find there's a lot of people that like to talk politics, but they can't ever find the time or money to support their ideals.

    When you sign your name on a list that's interested in supporting (a third party) at least return courtesy phone calls. I'd rather be told to "fuck off I'm no longer interested" than be given the runaround.

    Young people are being generalized here btw (more so than older supporters)

    If you have done political work you know how it goes.
    the Minions
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    2 fundraisers get cancelled and the entire party's a write-off? Less a blanket statement, more a fully-fledged carpet statement. :eek:

    explain please.

    maybe you don't see my point.

    I mean... I know what a blanket statement is but I don't see it in this context.

    Yeah, I can write it off from my experiences, high ideals -- no support

    That's simple...frustrating yes


    ..but it's the truth

    why are you arguing???
    the Minions

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