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Poisoned former Russian spy dies

FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
edited November 2006 in A Moving Train
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6178890.stm
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  • Scratchin a LetterScratchin a Letter Posts: 2,303
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6178890.stm
    I think it was inevitable, today hadn't been particularly good :(
    May he rest in peace.... and may those responsible be ashamed of themselves. I have an idea who was to blame for this
  • You're Still AliveYou're Still Alive Posts: 2
    I don't understand why you would use poison as your weapon of choice for an assassination. Seems like a bit of a hit and miss method to me. Do these guys think they're in a Robert Ludlum novel or something?

    Anyhow, gotta feel sorry for that guy - what a sad way to go.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    Well, it's possible that the Thallium Litvinenko ingested was radioactive. Death would be highly likely, slow, and agonising enough to warn other potential dissidents to keep their mouths shut.

    And shut, about what?


    Well, this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2154100.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2065078.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3357705.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3662124.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5416218.stm
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    icarus wrote:
    i heard bush did it

    If you haven't anything intelligent or constructive to add, then don't bother. Read the links, and then say something pertinent to the subject.
  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    It was most likely their best way to get him. They really wanted him out of the picture. The guy was an ex-spy (and from what I read, a very good one) so he was probably on-guard for more traditional methods of knocking him off.
  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    icarus wrote:
    i can't believe how forthright the FSB is in knocking people off.

    I think they have always been like this. A lot of these guys are ex-KGB, and in the past, they really haven't had to worry about a prying press or instantaneous global knowledge of events. Plus, as I said above, I think this was their best option. If there was an easier way of getting this guy, they would have used it--they aren't idiots. Adjusting slowly to a changing world--yes; imbiciles--no.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    looking through some of your posts, i suggest you take your own advice.

    and just to make you happy, i think its painfully obvious he was knocked off. i read he was investigating the assassination of that female Putin critic that recently happened. i also read that doctors at the hospital said that Thallium wasnt the cause, any updates? i can't believe how forthright the FSB is in knocking people off.

    also, its sort of strange for me because i've been treated in that hospital.

    Any violent, or unusual death suffered by those who have the voice to oppose the status quo is worth a closer look, don't you think?
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  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    icarus wrote:
    looking through some of your posts, i suggest you take your own advice.

    and just to make you happy, i think its painfully obvious he was knocked off. i read he was investigating the assassination of that female Putin critic that recently happened. i also read that doctors at the hospital said that Thallium wasnt the cause, any updates? i can't believe how forthright the FSB is in knocking people off.

    also, its sort of strange for me because i've been treated in that hospital.


    There's such a thing as context, and knowing when a witty comment is appropriate and thread specific. I have faultless command of this skill. You haven't.

    Now, it's likely Litvinenko was "knocked off", as you put it, and that an undisclosed third, Russian person whom he met on November 1st, is being considered as the person who poisoned him.

    More material is emerging, stating that the precise nature of the substance that killed him might never be known, and that x-ray dyeing may have obfuscated analysis of the number, type and combination of poisons. However, one should contrast the thoroughness of early reports with the vagueness of subsequent updates, lest we be confused by misinformation.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    i heard bush did it

    ill-timed.

    i understand it, but, still, bad timing.
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  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    There's such a thing as context, and knowing when a witty comment is appropriate and thread specific. I have faultless command of this skill. You haven't..

    Um, two things. One, because I'm feeling pugnacious, your very post, in this environment/context/thread, proves your command is not faultless. And two, the guy was poisoned/knocked-off--a person does not die like this naturally.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Um, two things. One, because I'm feeling pugnacious, your very post, in this environment/context/thread, proves your command is not faultless. And two, the guy was poisoned/knocked-off--a person does not die like this naturally.

    he's pretty good...

    in fact, why i'm defending him while he can defend himself is a mystery to me. Must be a thanksgiving sort of mood.

    btw, "pugnacious" aint gonna cut it. Good luck.
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  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    gue_barium wrote:

    btw, "pugnacious" aint gonna cut it. Good luck.

    Thanks for the ruling on that ref. And actually, when you are as high as I am right now, it does make the cut. It does. Seriously. You can look it up. Go to your rule book ref.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Thanks for the ruling on that ref. And actually, when you are as high as I am right now, it does make the cut. It does. Seriously. You can look it up. Go to your rule book ref.

    It's a word that reminds me of one of those little annoying dogs.

    Hey man, it's Thanksgiving. Peace to you. And Finsbury, too.
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  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    gue_barium wrote:
    It's a word that reminds me of one of those little annoying dogs.

    Hey man, it's Thanksgiving. Peace to you. And Finsbury, too.

    So true. Same to you man. And, for the record, I think those dogs are awesome. And the ladies love them. (last sentence with Jack Black inflection.)
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    So true. Same to you man. And, for the record, I think those dogs are awesome. And the ladies love them. (last sentence with Jack Black inflection.)

    Yeah. I don't want anyone (or any dog) kicked off the bridge.
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  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    gue_barium wrote:
    Yeah. I don't want anyone (or any dog) kicked off the bridge.

    So it is decided, we are friends. I will now take another puff on the pot, uh, peace pipe. Seriously, happy thanksgiving. Plus, the Broncos just lost, so how can we not be in a good mood.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    So it is decided, we are friends. I will now take another puff on the pot, uh, peace pipe. Seriously, happy thanksgiving. Plus, the Broncos just lost, so how can we not be in a good mood.

    Agreed.







    Cheers.
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  • mwachsmanmwachsman Posts: 474
    icarus wrote:
    i heard bush did it

    I thought it fit nicely. Though I'm always a sucker for conspiracy jokes. Especially after a few beers.
    "So, you must really love Led Zeppelin. That’s the oldest shirt I’ve ever seen on someone who wasn’t a bum."
    "Hey, if God didn’t want me to wear it so much, he wouldn’t have made them rock so hard."
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mwachsman wrote:
    I thought it fit nicely. Though I'm always a sucker for conspiracy jokes. Especially after a few beers.

    Yo, yo.

    Still.

    i mean, if you think about it. silenced for another, important, idea.
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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    come again
    Friends have said the ex-KGB agent was poisoned because of his criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin - Russia has denied any involvement.

    Scotland Yard said they were now investigating "an unexplained death".

    Defector

    Alex Goldfarb, speaking on behalf of Mr Litvinenko's family outside the hospital, said: "We are all shocked and horrified at this terrible crime. Tonight is a night of mourning."

    He added that his friend had died with "a clear conscience, a clear heart and with dignity".
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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    yes i know.... your phrasing was fairly odd.


    He was a good guy?

    I dunno, crazy world.
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  • Riot_RainRiot_Rain Posts: 348
    The whole thing is still a mystery to me.

    I mean, surely, there would have been ways to avoid mass media involvement? Why was the thallium theory spread so widely, then taken back?

    I wonder if someone is pulling the wool over our eyes somehow.

    But maybe that's just me being paranoid.

    I mean, would it be possible that the UK somehow did it?

    Okay, I'm getting dizzy now ;)
    Like a cloud dropping rain
    I'm discarding all thought
    I'll dry up, leaving puddles on the ground
    I'm like an opening band for the sun
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    IWillLiveForeve wrote:
    Um, two things. One, because I'm feeling pugnacious, your very post, in this environment/context/thread, proves your command is not faultless. And two, the guy was poisoned/knocked-off--a person does not die like this naturally.


    Wrong. A subcontextual discussion had developed parallel to the main thread topic, and I countered it perfectly.


    I wasn't in any way suggesting that his being "knocked off" was natural, otherwise I would not have supplied so many background links showing a possible causal link between his dissidence and his death.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    And, should anyone care, it appears that the poisonous substance was polonium-210.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    Riot_Rain wrote:
    The whole thing is still a mystery to me.

    I mean, surely, there would have been ways to avoid mass media involvement? Why was the thallium theory spread so widely, then taken back?

    I wonder if someone is pulling the wool over our eyes somehow.

    But maybe that's just me being paranoid.

    I mean, would it be possible that the UK somehow did it?

    Okay, I'm getting dizzy now ;)

    I think the Thallium theory was due to him losing his hair so quickly among other similar side effects. Once they dug deeper- they realized it was a different substance. The KGB has a long history of developing undetectable concoctions. It’s insane that Russia is in the WTO and has veto power among the G8.

    What motive would the UK have for killing this guy?
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • Jammin909Jammin909 Posts: 888
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    And, should anyone care, it appears that the poisonous substance was polonium-210.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium

    http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-11-24T152852Z_01_L24604922_RTRUKOC_0_UK-BRITAIN-POISONING-POLONIUM.xml

    LONDON (Reuters) - Health experts investigating the death of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko from suspected poisoning said on Friday they had found a highly toxic radioactive isotope in his body.

    "Tests have established that Mr Litvinenko had a significant quantity of the radioactive isotope Polonium-210 in his body," Britain's independent Health Protection Agency said in a statement.

    "It is not yet clear how this entered his body. Police are investigating this."

    "Po-210 can represent a radiation hazard if it is taken into the body -- by breathing it, by eating it, or if it gets into a wound. It is not a radiological hazard as long as it remains outside the body," the statement added.

    Polonium, a by-product of Uranium, was discovered by Polish chemist Marie Sklodowska Curie in 1898.

    It is a pure alpha-particle emitter and a great deal of energy is released by its decay. A single gram of Polonium-210 generates 140 watts of heat energy.

    "There are very small amounts of Polonium 210 in the natural environment from decay of uranium in the earth and in fact everyone has a small amount of polonium 210 in their body," said Professor Dudley Goodhead, of the Medical Research Council & Genome Stability Unit.

    "But to poison someone, much larger amounts are required and this would have to be man-made, perhaps from a particle accelerator or a nuclear reactor," he added.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I wouldnt fuck with the russian government. kinda scary.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I wouldnt fuck with the russian government. kinda scary.

    Putin is the real bogeyman.
  • IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    icarus wrote:
    the problem is that not enough people are challenging the government. if more people did, they wouldnt be able to do this anymore.

    It doesn't matter. This shit has been going on forever. Every government does it--including ours. Sometimes individuals pose such a threat to governments, they must be eliminated. Sad, but true. Hell, I'd bet the world that the guy that was poisoned took down AT LEAST 5 people.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Putin is the real bogeyman.


    didnt you rip someone for making irrelevant comments. its your thread I guess.
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