Why aren't more environmentalists vegetarians?

124»

Comments

  • I know this is slightly OT, but do animal rights or vegans think it's better that these animals never lived or experienced life at all? That would be reality if everyone was vegan. If someone dies tragically would it better if they were never born in the first place? hmm...

    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/act-veg-vid-vegbbuilderkenwilliams.html
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RiverrunnerRiverrunner Posts: 2,419
    gue_barium wrote:
    Anyway, you bring up a lot of stuff. Do you have a link to support the BLM thing?

    Most of what I learned was from a couple of law school classes actually, and that would have been back in '91 and '92. However, I googled the subject and found these articles. Note: I didn't take time to read the articles in their entirety, just skimmed them. I think the third one is the best, by the way.

    http://www.thebeckoning.com/environment/cattle/grazing.html

    http://www.progress.org/ranch07.htm

    http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/PROGRAMS/grazing/index.html
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Some quoted text from here: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/iron.php


    "Vegans have a high dietary iron intake and although iron from plant sources is less well absorbed than that from meat, high levels of vitamin C in the diet enhances iron absorption. Studies show that the iron status of vegans is usually normal, and iron deficiency is no more common than in the general population."

    yes ... but that is something vegans have to be concerned with ... people normally assume iron is iron ...
  • halvhalv Posts: 701
    I was just wondering how to get in the 1.5 - 2 grams (or higher) of protein per lb of lean bodyweight required for hardcore muscle building. i.e in around the 150 - 300 grams protein a day range...

    I can't imagine any hardcore bodybuilders are vegan.


    http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/images.html
  • halvhalv Posts: 701
    I know this is slightly OT, but do animal rights or vegans think it's better that these animals never lived or experienced life at all? That would be reality if everyone was vegan. If someone dies tragically would it better if they were never born in the first place? hmm...

    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/act-veg-vid-vegbbuilderkenwilliams.html

    I understand your question, but I feel we need to put ourselves in their position to answer that truthfully. For me, would I want to have a chickens life? Be born and pretty much right away be taken away from my mother, thrown to live in a jam packed shed with no natural sunlight while sucking up ammonia fumes, thrown into a cage at 6 weeks old and taken to be hung violently from my feet, have my neck slit and then scalded in boiling water?
    Or a pig, born indoors onto a concrete floor with a metal fence keeping me from my mom. As I grow I am still stuck inside in a cage with no room to turn around standing on a concrete floor, only to be herded into a truck packed with other pigs for 2-3 days without food or water, herded up a ramp to have a bolt shot into my head while fully concious? Or how about veal calves? ducks force-fed for foise-gras? Animals raised in cages for the fur industry?

    We could say we've given them life, but by the time we're done with them they'll wish they've never been born.
  • halv wrote:

    I just want to know how much soy, and various beans I gotta knock back every day... They don;t mention that....I'd probably be puking them up after a week of eating mass quantities daily

    As well, these guys probably never stop farting...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • halv wrote:
    I understand your question, but I feel we need to put ourselves in their position to answer that truthfully. For me, would I want to have a chickens life? Be born and pretty much right away be taken away from my mother, thrown to live in a jam packed shed with no natural sunlight while sucking up ammonia fumes, thrown into a cage at 6 weeks old and taken to be hung violently from my feet, have my neck slit and then scalded in boiling water?
    Or a pig, born indoors onto a concrete floor with a metal fence keeping me from my mom. As I grow I am still stuck inside in a cage with no room to turn around standing on a concrete floor, only to be herded into a truck packed with other pigs for 2-3 days without food or water, herded up a ramp to have a bolt shot into my head while fully concious? Or how about veal calves? ducks force-fed for foise-gras? Animals raised in cages for the fur industry?

    We could say we've given them life, but by the time we're done with them they'll wish they've never been born.

    I think it's over reaction to a certain extent. If I lived in a crowded filthy dirt shack from birth as long as I was warm, properly fed, and under no direct physical threat, I probably wouldn't know any better to think otherwise. It's all point of reference. We all have to die at some point. I rather get a bolt to the head than suffer a heart attack, stroke, or cancer and die slowly and painfully over a period of hours, weeks, or months. Ultimately it's a lot more humane. A "natural" death is often far from humane and involves extended periods of suffering.

    The environmental impacts are pretty outrageous though, as posted earlier. That alone should be reason enough for people to adjust their diets. The fast food industry should be eliminated altogether.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RiverrunnerRiverrunner Posts: 2,419
    I think it's over reaction to a certain extent. If I lived in a crowded filthy dirt shack from birth as long as I was warm, properly fed, and under no direct physical threat, I probably wouldn't know any better to think otherwise. It's all point of reference. We all have to die at some point. I rather get a bolt to the head than suffer a heart attack, stroke, or cancer and die slowly and painfully over a period of hours, weeks, or months. Ultimately it's a lot more humane. A "natural" death is often far from humane and involves extended periods of suffering.

    The environmental impacts are pretty outrageous though, as posted earlier. That alone should be reason enough for people to adjust their diets. The fast food industry should be eliminated altogether.

    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,378
    The fast food industry should be eliminated altogether.
    i absolutely agree with you! i can not understand how anyone could eat that crap.
  • sicnevolsicnevol Posts: 180
    halv wrote:
    Bodybuilding requires way less protien then most people think. If you can find me a vegan powerlifter, then i will be impressed.
    That's two things we've got, Tape and Time.
  • "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein

    "It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind." - Albert Einstein

    "However, an argument from authority in favor of vegetarianism is not strong:
    Einstein was a physicist, not a dietitian, statistician, psychologist, nor oracle. In fact, he is a more likely authority in debates on the existence of God, as metaphysics is only one order away from physics."

    He really only came into the vegan practice in his last few years of life. He really had no concept of the nutritional aspects other than the compassion towards animals point of view
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • sicnevol wrote:
    Bodybuilding requires way less protien then most people think. If you can find me a vegan powerlifter, then i will be impressed.

    depends on genetics and how easy you gain mass... hard gainers need to crank protein to trigger growth...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    gue_barium wrote:
    Well, my uncle owned 5,000 acres, so I don't think those herfords were particularly stagnant. We had a hard time finding them.
    Another argument could be that there were once millions of buffalo where there are none now, as far as the overgrazing goes.

    and another argument could be that over grazing alone, or even primarily, did not lead to an almost absence of buffalo. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
Sign In or Register to comment.