wouldn't the diesel burning tractors used to cultivate the land produce a bigger footprint than the animals?
i think the main problem with cattle is that they (unlike sheep) eat grasses all the way to the roots ... the grass then has to be replanted somehow ... so, as soon as a square foot of grass has been eaten - they gotta go somewhere else ... whereas (assuming growing conditions are good), a plant will continue to grow in the same spot producing food year in and year out ...
i think the main problem with cattle is that they (unlike sheep) eat grasses all the way to the roots ... the grass then has to be replanted somehow ... so, as soon as a square foot of grass has been eaten - they gotta go somewhere else ... whereas (assuming growing conditions are good), a plant will continue to grow in the same spot producing food year in and year out ...
you've got that backwards. cattle don't have top teeth so the grass is left to grow. sheep on the other hand; have top and bottom teeth and will pull the plant up; root and all. that's what caused the war between the cattlemen and sheep herders.
i think the main problem with cattle is that they (unlike sheep) eat grasses all the way to the roots ... the grass then has to be replanted somehow ... so, as soon as a square foot of grass has been eaten - they gotta go somewhere else ... whereas (assuming growing conditions are good), a plant will continue to grow in the same spot producing food year in and year out ...
a plant won't continue to grow without food. animal waste replenishes the soil whereas chemical fertilizers kill off beneficial organisms and destroy the soil and the aquafir. but either way; tractors are used to fertilize and cultivate the plants.
you've got that backwards. cattle don't have top teeth so the grass is left to grow. sheep on the other hand; have top and bottom teeth and will pull the plant up; root and all. that's what caused the war between the cattlemen and sheep herders.
it is my understanding that cattle, unlike elk or deer, are stagnant foragers - meaning they haven't evolved enuf to know that once they eat everything - it won't come back ... cattle will graze in one spot until everything that is edible is eaten ...
why wasn't the enviornment being destroyed before the europeans came to america? if you think about; there were tens of thousands of buffalo roaming the country. add in all the deer; elk; moose and other animals; and the actual animal population is about the same. since elk; moose; and buffalo are larger than cattle; we're close pound for pound.
the difference is that there was a balance and man disrupted this balance. if animals are having a negative impact on the enviornment; it's because man did something to cause that situation. don't blame the animals.
I think you misunderstood me. I am not blaming the animals, I'm blaming the methods in which we produce livestock. The way we produce livestock is unsustainable. The difference before Europeans was that animals lived in their natural habitat so there was biological diversity within the ranges where animals roamed. Now we have fenced in areas and farms where where the natural world is largely excluded including vegetation and other animals that play important ecological roles. For example, an astonishing amount of tropical rainforest is cut down everyday for cattle production. This is a poor production method.
it is my understanding that cattle, unlike elk or deer, are stagnant foragers - meaning they haven't evolved enuf to know that once they eat everything - it won't come back ... cattle will graze in one spot until everything that is edible is eaten ...
i've been in the cattle business for 51 years and i've never seen or heard anything like that. cattle walk as they eat. then rest while they chew their "cud". i've never seen any cattle or buffalo stand in one place and eat unless it was confined. in the time it took to write this; my buffalo have traveled almost 1/2 mile while grazing.
I'd bet dollars to donuts you're missing out on some pretty critical aminos though.
Whey is king. It turbo charges the immune system. Next on the list is eggs in terms of biological quality. Then comes meat, fish, soy etc...and onwards down the list.
I'm a big fan of micellar casein because I work out. It's a slow burn protein from egg sources. You need to take in protein approx every three hours, or your body starts burning muscle tissue for energy. If you work out and don't maintain protein levels you're just burning off all the hard work in the gym (if you're in for size and bulking up that is). Everyone should train for muscle mass. The more you have of it, the leaner (and healthier) you'll be.
Also why it's important to eat 5-6 small meals throughout the day.
Best case scenario? Combine whey with micellar casein. Solid nutrition.
.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
A book everyone should read is "Mad Cowboy" by Howard Lyman. He's a former cattle rancher. Ran a huge multi-million dollar feedlot. He gave it all up, is now a vegan, and advocates for organic produce farming. If you want a first hand account from someone who made millions in the meat industry, read this book. He was the guy on the show with Oprah when she said she would never eat another hamburger and got sued by the Texas cattlemen.
bullshit. show me some of these studies that prove that any of what your saying is true. (and make-believe studies financed by the meat industry don't count)
cause what i've heard directly from three different nutritionist with degrees from the University of Washington has been totally opposite of what you claim above
Actual studies on this are very recent. Until now, nutritionists just bagged high protein diets without actually studying them. Ojjective studies show the Atkin's diet is the best for reducing lipids AND losing weight.
Haven't got refernces, I read stuff and pick out the good bits, buit memorising references is a waste of my brain.
BTW, last time I measured my chol it was 3.3, I eat red meat every day.
Meat is tasty, you are built to eat meat. thats why you have those nifty pointy teeth.... Meat is good.
Its the meat industry I have a problem with. I raise my own meat, and I hunt. Usally WON'T buy meat at a store. I don't know what it ate, how it was killed, who injected what into it.
We mostly hunt deer, and also we buy some meat from local sources, like the next door neighbor.
Maybe the ones you know didn't know how to do it properly. I know plenty of people from India, who have never had a taste of meat ever, and never want to. For Hindus its against their religion. http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/hinmeat.html
edit - I see there are other articles that say its not against their religion; however I still know many Hindus who say it is.
cow is against there religion, meat isn't. They can't have a hambuger but they could have pork-chops....
Actual studies on this are very recent. Until now, nutritionists just bagged high protein diets without actually studying them. Ojjective studies show the Atkin's diet is the best for reducing lipids AND losing weight.
Haven't got refernces, I read stuff and pick out the good bits, buit memorising references is a waste of my brain.
BTW, last time I measured my chol it was 3.3, I eat red meat every day.
I could call two of those nutritionist in the morning and asked them why they haven't studied that of which they have degrees in and the field in which they practice (and also have to take continue studying in order to retain their jobs) but i'm pretty sure that they'd they tell me quit being ridiculuous
from what i've been told and read hdl levels are statistically pretty equal among vegetarians and meateaters. while ldl levels are statistically lower among vegetarians...making for much less atherosclerosis and the resulting heart attacks from it among vegetarians compared to meateaters.
I know a nephrologist that says the the Atkin's Diet put his three kids through college and will also put all his grandkids (as yet unborn) through college as well....it's been very, very good for business
I could call two of those nutritionist in the morning and asked them why they haven't studied that of which they have degrees in and the field in which they practice (and also have to take continue studying in order to retain their jobs) but i'm pretty sure that they'd they tell me quit being ridiculuous
from what i've been told and read hdl levels are statistically pretty equal among vegetarians and meateaters. while ldl levels are statistically lower among vegetarians...making for much less atherosclerosis and the resulting heart attacks from it among vegetarians compared to meateaters.
I know a nephrologist that says the the Atkin's Diet put his three kids through college and will also put all his grandkids (as yet unborn) through college as well....it's been very, very good for business
Not to be an asshole, but I have congestive heart faliure, and several heart defects along with an arrthyma. All of the doctors I have ever seen have told me to contuine eating meat. My older brother has a masters in Biometrics and exercise science and he also tells me to eat meat. i need the extra protien and calories to help me survive an SVT. Which I have often.
The akins diet put his kids through school because people are stupid and assume that a bacon sandwich is good for them if they are on akins. they don't understansd that they need to eat lean meat. people on akins order a cheesburger with everything except the bun and go "wow look how healthy I am!" The meat isn't the problem its the lack of brains in the eater. extremism in any form is bad. have you had anyone tell you that you should eat only meat. monderation in everything is key....
Not to be an asshole, but I have congestive heart faliure, and several heart defects along with an arrthyma. All of the doctors I have ever seen have told me to contuine eating meat. My older brother has a masters in Biometrics and exercise science and he also tells me to eat meat. i need the extra protien and calories to help me survive an SVT. Which I have often.
The akins diet put his kids through school because people are stupid and assume that a bacon sandwich is good for them if they are on akins. they don't understansd that they need to eat lean meat. people on akins order a cheesburger with everything except the bun and go "wow look how healthy I am!" The meat isn't the problem its the lack of brains in the eater. extremism in any form is bad. have you had anyone tell you that you should eat only meat. monderation in everything is key....
i've been in the cattle business for 51 years and i've never seen or heard anything like that. cattle walk as they eat. then rest while they chew their "cud". i've never seen any cattle or buffalo stand in one place and eat unless it was confined. in the time it took to write this; my buffalo have traveled almost 1/2 mile while grazing.
but buffalo are like elk and deer ... they are natural foragers ... cows are not
1) Of all agricultural land in the United States, nearly 80
percent is used to raise animals for food. More than 260
million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create
cropland to grow grain to feed farmed animals. Twenty times
more land is required to feed a meat-eater than to feed a
pure vegetarian.
2) The meat industry causes more water pollution in
the United States than all other industries combined because
animals raised for food produce 130 times more excrement
than the entire human population does—86,000 pounds per
second. A typical pig factory farm generates a quantity of raw
waste equal to that of a city of 50,000 people, but without the
sewage system.
3) Raising animals for food consumes nearly half the
water used in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water
to produce a pound of beef, but only 25 gallons to produce a
pound of wheat.
4) Energy: Raising animals for food requires more than onethird
of all the raw materials and fossil fuels used in the
United States.
Two arguments that I always find odd is 1) we have canine teeth and 2) meat is healthy for you and needed for protein.
Our teeth are nothing like true carnivore animals teeth. Humans have four mildly pointy teeth. If it wasn't for a knife we'd have a pretty hard time ripping into the side of a dead animal with our mouths. Not to mention that our intestinal track is about 4 times longer than other true carnivores.
Of course meat has some health benefits. No ones saying it doesn't. But it also has high fat and cholesterol and is linked to various health problems like cancer, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc etc. There's a reason you never here doctors tell people to eat their vegetables and beans in moderation.
You can get all the protein and nutrition you need from a veggie diet. It's such a myth that you can't.
Here's an article about vegan athetletes like Carl Lewis talking about vegan nutrition which includes this quote from a doctor who trains Olympic-calibre atheletes: "Every nutrient known to be essential for human health is available, in proper concentration, in plant foods. This is not so with animal-based foods, as there are many essential nutrients totally absent in them." http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=26480
1) Of all agricultural land in the United States, nearly 80
percent is used to raise animals for food. More than 260
million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create
cropland to grow grain to feed farmed animals. Twenty times
more land is required to feed a meat-eater than to feed a
pure vegetarian.
2) The meat industry causes more water pollution in
the United States than all other industries combined because
animals raised for food produce 130 times more excrement
than the entire human population does—86,000 pounds per
second. A typical pig factory farm generates a quantity of raw
waste equal to that of a city of 50,000 people, but without the
sewage system.
3) Raising animals for food consumes nearly half the
water used in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water
to produce a pound of beef, but only 25 gallons to produce a
pound of wheat.
4) Energy: Raising animals for food requires more than onethird
of all the raw materials and fossil fuels used in the
United States.
Two arguments that I always find odd is 1) we have canine teeth and 2) meat is healthy for you and needed for protein.
Our teeth are nothing like true carnivore animals teeth. Humans have four mildly pointy teeth. If it wasn't for a knife we'd have a pretty hard time ripping into the side of a dead animal with our mouths. Not to mention that our intestinal track is about 4 times longer than other true carnivores.
Of course meat has some health benefits. No ones saying it doesn't. But it also has high fat and cholesterol and is linked to various health problems like cancer, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc etc. There's a reason you never here doctors tell people to eat their vegetables and beans in moderation.
You can get all the protein and nutrition you need from a veggie diet. It's such a myth that you can't.
Here's an article about vegan athetletes like Carl Lewis talking about vegan nutrition which includes this quote from a doctor who trains Olympic-calibre atheletes: "Every nutrient known to be essential for human health is available, in proper concentration, in plant foods. This is not so with animal-based foods, as there are many essential nutrients totally absent in them." http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=26480
Everything I wanted to say, but you said it so much better than I could have.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
I would be interested to see a body builder get into the 1.5 - 2 grams or protein per lb of bodyweight eating from plant sources. That's a serious shitload of beans to eat every day. What exactly is the formula or combination for complete branch chain amino's via plant sources? the article didn't mention it.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I would be interested to see a body builder get into the 1.5 - 2 grams or protein per lb of bodyweight eating from plant sources. That's a serious shitload of beans to eat every day. What exactly is the formula or combination for complete branch chain amino's via plant sources? the article didn't mention it.
I am not an expert by any means, but as an age grouper triathlete I read a lot about nutrition in the magazines, the web, etc. The problem is not protein. Beans have a lot of protein and you wouldn't have to eat a ton to get your protein, plus there are lots of other high quality sources of protein, including nuts, peanut butter, soy products, etc.
From what I have read, the nutritional element that may be missing from a pure vegan diet is vitamin B12. Thus, it is advised that vegans and vegetarians that don't eat much dairy to take a vitamin b supplement daily.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
but buffalo are like elk and deer ... they are natural foragers ... cows are not
Sure they are. What do you think all those cowboys are out there rounding up? Almost all of our beef cattle roam far and wide (or, whatever acreage is available) just like any other hooved animal. I helped brand and vaccinate my uncle's hereford's one year on his ranch. It took a couple of days to round them up into a pen, and another long long day getting them branded and vaccinated. They were very wild, as they rarely came in contact with humans.
Sure they are. What do you think all those cowboys are out there rounding up? Almost all of our beef cattle roam far and wide (or, whatever acreage is available) just like any other hooved animal. I helped brand and vaccinate my uncle's hereford's one year on his ranch. It took a couple of days to round them up into a pen, and another long long day getting them branded and vaccinated. They were very wild, as they rarely came in contact with humans.
Which raises another issue on the environment and meat. AND I am NOT saying that your uncle's ranch falls in this category, BUT many, if not most, of the ranches "out west" run their cattle on public property. That is property that is owned by the tax payers. Technically, it is BLM property (Bureau of Land Management). BLM leases our public property to ranchers - and this is hundreds of thousands of acres of our property. They lease it dirt cheap.... almost free. You may ask, so what? Well, for one thing our public property is being used to subsidy ranchers/the meat industry. Second, one of the primary reasons that wild horsers and burros are rounded up and sold to slaughterhouses is that they are in competition with these cattle and the ranchers put pressure on BLM to "get rid of the wild horses and burros." There is plenty of room for the wild horses and burros if BLM wouldn't give the land to the beef industry!
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals. Ghandi
I am not an expert by any means, but as an age grouper triathlete I read a lot about nutrition in the magazines, the web, etc. The problem is not protein. Beans have a lot of protein and you wouldn't have to eat a ton to get your protein, plus there are lots of other high quality sources of protein, including nuts, peanut butter, soy products, etc.
From what I have read, the nutritional element that may be missing from a pure vegan diet is vitamin B12. Thus, it is advised that vegans and vegetarians that don't eat much dairy to take a vitamin b supplement daily.
I was just wondering how to get in the 1.5 - 2 grams (or higher) of protein per lb of lean bodyweight required for hardcore muscle building. i.e in around the 150 - 300 grams protein a day range...
I can't imagine any hardcore bodybuilders are vegan.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I am not an expert by any means, but as an age grouper triathlete I read a lot about nutrition in the magazines, the web, etc. The problem is not protein. Beans have a lot of protein and you wouldn't have to eat a ton to get your protein, plus there are lots of other high quality sources of protein, including nuts, peanut butter, soy products, etc.
From what I have read, the nutritional element that may be missing from a pure vegan diet is vitamin B12. Thus, it is advised that vegans and vegetarians that don't eat much dairy to take a vitamin b supplement daily.
one of the primary concerns with a vegan diet is iron especially in women ... there are lot of food that contain iron but the problem is the conversion of that iron by your body ... red meat has the highest conversion rate vs your beans and legumes ...
having said that ... i do believe humans can live a healthy life on a vegetarian diet ...
I was just wondering how to get in the 1.5 - 2 grams (or higher) of protein per lb of lean bodyweight required for hardcore muscle building. i.e in around the 150 - 300 grams protein a day range...
I can't imagine any hardcore bodybuilders are vegan.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Sure they are. What do you think all those cowboys are out there rounding up? Almost all of our beef cattle roam far and wide (or, whatever acreage is available) just like any other hooved animal. I helped brand and vaccinate my uncle's hereford's one year on his ranch. It took a couple of days to round them up into a pen, and another long long day getting them branded and vaccinated. They were very wild, as they rarely came in contact with humans.
The main problem many environmentalists have with cattle grazing is that cattle are a non-native species to the environments in which they roam. Since cattle are non-natives, their impact on the environment is greater than native species like elk and deer. Cattle have not evolved in the ecosystems in which they have been placed, and therefore they do not co-exist with those ecosystems well. Whereas deer and elk are highly mobile foragers, cattle are stagnant foragers. What this means is that deer and elk move around so much that they do not overgraze an area or cause soil damage. Cattle on the other hand, will often remain in the same area until they have eaten all or most of the edible material there. Only after most of the vegetation has been eaten will they move on. (10) Cattle also need more forage than elk or deer.
one of the primary concerns with a vegan diet is iron especially in women ... there are lot of food that contain iron but the problem is the conversion of that iron by your body ... red meat has the highest conversion rate vs your beans and legumes ...
having said that ... i do believe humans can live a healthy life on a vegetarian diet ...
"Vegans have a high dietary iron intake and although iron from plant sources is less well absorbed than that from meat, high levels of vitamin C in the diet enhances iron absorption. Studies show that the iron status of vegans is usually normal, and iron deficiency is no more common than in the general population."
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
Which raises another issue on the environment and meat. AND I am NOT saying that your uncle's ranch falls in this category, BUT many, if not most, of the ranches "out west" run their cattle on public property. That is property that is owned by the tax payers. Technically, it is BLM property (Bureau of Land Management). BLM leases our public property to ranchers - and this is hundreds of thousands of acres of our property. They lease it dirt cheap.... almost free. You may ask, so what? Well, for one thing our public property is being used to subsidy ranchers/the meat industry. Second, one of the primary reasons that wild horsers and burros are rounded up and sold to slaughterhouses is that they are in competition with these cattle and the ranchers put pressure on BLM to "get rid of the wild horses and burros." There is plenty of room for the wild horses and burros if BLM wouldn't give the land to the beef industry!
I don't think this is true. There is a lot of private property in the West that fell into the boundaries of the newly formed National Forest lands when that happened, but most of that private property remained private. I don't know how long the BLM has been around, but I'd have to think if what you're saying is true, then any of that leased cattle grazing program land hasn't been around for a very long time. As far as I know the greater majority of wild horses run wild in Nevada with some small herds in Utah, and Wyoming. (I saw a lone wild stallion once in Wyoming .
Anyway, you bring up a lot of stuff. Do you have a link to support the BLM thing?
no fair black guy...genetically gifted and muscular already...
thanks for the link though... I'll try to spec his diet..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The main problem many environmentalists have with cattle grazing is that cattle are a non-native species to the environments in which they roam. Since cattle are non-natives, their impact on the environment is greater than native species like elk and deer. Cattle have not evolved in the ecosystems in which they have been placed, and therefore they do not co-exist with those ecosystems well. Whereas deer and elk are highly mobile foragers, cattle are stagnant foragers. What this means is that deer and elk move around so much that they do not overgraze an area or cause soil damage. Cattle on the other hand, will often remain in the same area until they have eaten all or most of the edible material there. Only after most of the vegetation has been eaten will they move on. (10) Cattle also need more forage than elk or deer.
Well, my uncle owned 5,000 acres, so I don't think those herfords were particularly stagnant. We had a hard time finding them.
Another argument could be that there were once millions of buffalo where there are none now, as far as the overgrazing goes.
Comments
i think the main problem with cattle is that they (unlike sheep) eat grasses all the way to the roots ... the grass then has to be replanted somehow ... so, as soon as a square foot of grass has been eaten - they gotta go somewhere else ... whereas (assuming growing conditions are good), a plant will continue to grow in the same spot producing food year in and year out ...
you've got that backwards. cattle don't have top teeth so the grass is left to grow. sheep on the other hand; have top and bottom teeth and will pull the plant up; root and all. that's what caused the war between the cattlemen and sheep herders.
a plant won't continue to grow without food. animal waste replenishes the soil whereas chemical fertilizers kill off beneficial organisms and destroy the soil and the aquafir. but either way; tractors are used to fertilize and cultivate the plants.
it is my understanding that cattle, unlike elk or deer, are stagnant foragers - meaning they haven't evolved enuf to know that once they eat everything - it won't come back ... cattle will graze in one spot until everything that is edible is eaten ...
i've been in the cattle business for 51 years and i've never seen or heard anything like that. cattle walk as they eat. then rest while they chew their "cud". i've never seen any cattle or buffalo stand in one place and eat unless it was confined. in the time it took to write this; my buffalo have traveled almost 1/2 mile while grazing.
Haha...
I'd bet dollars to donuts you're missing out on some pretty critical aminos though.
Whey is king. It turbo charges the immune system. Next on the list is eggs in terms of biological quality. Then comes meat, fish, soy etc...and onwards down the list.
I'm a big fan of micellar casein because I work out. It's a slow burn protein from egg sources. You need to take in protein approx every three hours, or your body starts burning muscle tissue for energy. If you work out and don't maintain protein levels you're just burning off all the hard work in the gym (if you're in for size and bulking up that is). Everyone should train for muscle mass. The more you have of it, the leaner (and healthier) you'll be.
Also why it's important to eat 5-6 small meals throughout the day.
Best case scenario? Combine whey with micellar casein. Solid nutrition.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Actual studies on this are very recent. Until now, nutritionists just bagged high protein diets without actually studying them. Ojjective studies show the Atkin's diet is the best for reducing lipids AND losing weight.
Haven't got refernces, I read stuff and pick out the good bits, buit memorising references is a waste of my brain.
BTW, last time I measured my chol it was 3.3, I eat red meat every day.
Its the meat industry I have a problem with. I raise my own meat, and I hunt. Usally WON'T buy meat at a store. I don't know what it ate, how it was killed, who injected what into it.
We mostly hunt deer, and also we buy some meat from local sources, like the next door neighbor.
cow is against there religion, meat isn't. They can't have a hambuger but they could have pork-chops....
I could call two of those nutritionist in the morning and asked them why they haven't studied that of which they have degrees in and the field in which they practice (and also have to take continue studying in order to retain their jobs) but i'm pretty sure that they'd they tell me quit being ridiculuous
from what i've been told and read hdl levels are statistically pretty equal among vegetarians and meateaters. while ldl levels are statistically lower among vegetarians...making for much less atherosclerosis and the resulting heart attacks from it among vegetarians compared to meateaters.
I know a nephrologist that says the the Atkin's Diet put his three kids through college and will also put all his grandkids (as yet unborn) through college as well....it's been very, very good for business
also http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/kbailey.html it explains how most of the initial weight loss from the Atkin's Diet isn't from the body losing fat but is actually caused by dehydration from ketosis.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The akins diet put his kids through school because people are stupid and assume that a bacon sandwich is good for them if they are on akins. they don't understansd that they need to eat lean meat. people on akins order a cheesburger with everything except the bun and go "wow look how healthy I am!" The meat isn't the problem its the lack of brains in the eater. extremism in any form is bad. have you had anyone tell you that you should eat only meat. monderation in everything is key....
PPS Were you aware that you can overdose on minerals and vitimans?
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he158w.htm
everything is bad if you over do it. Dark Leafy greens can cause liver failure!
yes given your circumstances contining to eat meat would make sense for you because you need the added protein
as for most other people there's health benefits from eating a vegetarian diet because of the decreased ldl cholesterol levels
it's an individual thing
angels share laughter
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i don't care. meat just grosses me out. i cant even touch it with my hands.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but buffalo are like elk and deer ... they are natural foragers ... cows are not
1) Of all agricultural land in the United States, nearly 80
percent is used to raise animals for food. More than 260
million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create
cropland to grow grain to feed farmed animals. Twenty times
more land is required to feed a meat-eater than to feed a
pure vegetarian.
2) The meat industry causes more water pollution in
the United States than all other industries combined because
animals raised for food produce 130 times more excrement
than the entire human population does—86,000 pounds per
second. A typical pig factory farm generates a quantity of raw
waste equal to that of a city of 50,000 people, but without the
sewage system.
3) Raising animals for food consumes nearly half the
water used in the United States. It takes 2,500 gallons of water
to produce a pound of beef, but only 25 gallons to produce a
pound of wheat.
4) Energy: Raising animals for food requires more than onethird
of all the raw materials and fossil fuels used in the
United States.
Two arguments that I always find odd is 1) we have canine teeth and 2) meat is healthy for you and needed for protein.
Our teeth are nothing like true carnivore animals teeth. Humans have four mildly pointy teeth. If it wasn't for a knife we'd have a pretty hard time ripping into the side of a dead animal with our mouths. Not to mention that our intestinal track is about 4 times longer than other true carnivores.
Of course meat has some health benefits. No ones saying it doesn't. But it also has high fat and cholesterol and is linked to various health problems like cancer, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc etc. There's a reason you never here doctors tell people to eat their vegetables and beans in moderation.
You can get all the protein and nutrition you need from a veggie diet. It's such a myth that you can't.
Here's an article about vegan athetletes like Carl Lewis talking about vegan nutrition which includes this quote from a doctor who trains Olympic-calibre atheletes: "Every nutrient known to be essential for human health is available, in proper concentration, in plant foods. This is not so with animal-based foods, as there are many essential nutrients totally absent in them."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=26480
Everything I wanted to say, but you said it so much better than I could have.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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I am not an expert by any means, but as an age grouper triathlete I read a lot about nutrition in the magazines, the web, etc. The problem is not protein. Beans have a lot of protein and you wouldn't have to eat a ton to get your protein, plus there are lots of other high quality sources of protein, including nuts, peanut butter, soy products, etc.
From what I have read, the nutritional element that may be missing from a pure vegan diet is vitamin B12. Thus, it is advised that vegans and vegetarians that don't eat much dairy to take a vitamin b supplement daily.
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Which raises another issue on the environment and meat. AND I am NOT saying that your uncle's ranch falls in this category, BUT many, if not most, of the ranches "out west" run their cattle on public property. That is property that is owned by the tax payers. Technically, it is BLM property (Bureau of Land Management). BLM leases our public property to ranchers - and this is hundreds of thousands of acres of our property. They lease it dirt cheap.... almost free. You may ask, so what? Well, for one thing our public property is being used to subsidy ranchers/the meat industry. Second, one of the primary reasons that wild horsers and burros are rounded up and sold to slaughterhouses is that they are in competition with these cattle and the ranchers put pressure on BLM to "get rid of the wild horses and burros." There is plenty of room for the wild horses and burros if BLM wouldn't give the land to the beef industry!
I was just wondering how to get in the 1.5 - 2 grams (or higher) of protein per lb of lean bodyweight required for hardcore muscle building. i.e in around the 150 - 300 grams protein a day range...
I can't imagine any hardcore bodybuilders are vegan.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
one of the primary concerns with a vegan diet is iron especially in women ... there are lot of food that contain iron but the problem is the conversion of that iron by your body ... red meat has the highest conversion rate vs your beans and legumes ...
having said that ... i do believe humans can live a healthy life on a vegetarian diet ...
How about this guy ----> http://veganmusclepower.org/
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"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
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Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
from: http://www.thebeckoning.com/environment/cattle/grazing.html
The main problem many environmentalists have with cattle grazing is that cattle are a non-native species to the environments in which they roam. Since cattle are non-natives, their impact on the environment is greater than native species like elk and deer. Cattle have not evolved in the ecosystems in which they have been placed, and therefore they do not co-exist with those ecosystems well. Whereas deer and elk are highly mobile foragers, cattle are stagnant foragers. What this means is that deer and elk move around so much that they do not overgraze an area or cause soil damage. Cattle on the other hand, will often remain in the same area until they have eaten all or most of the edible material there. Only after most of the vegetation has been eaten will they move on. (10) Cattle also need more forage than elk or deer.
Some quoted text from here: http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/iron.php
"Vegans have a high dietary iron intake and although iron from plant sources is less well absorbed than that from meat, high levels of vitamin C in the diet enhances iron absorption. Studies show that the iron status of vegans is usually normal, and iron deficiency is no more common than in the general population."
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I don't think this is true. There is a lot of private property in the West that fell into the boundaries of the newly formed National Forest lands when that happened, but most of that private property remained private. I don't know how long the BLM has been around, but I'd have to think if what you're saying is true, then any of that leased cattle grazing program land hasn't been around for a very long time. As far as I know the greater majority of wild horses run wild in Nevada with some small herds in Utah, and Wyoming. (I saw a lone wild stallion once in Wyoming
Anyway, you bring up a lot of stuff. Do you have a link to support the BLM thing?
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no fair black guy...genetically gifted and muscular already...
thanks for the link though... I'll try to spec his diet..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Well, my uncle owned 5,000 acres, so I don't think those herfords were particularly stagnant. We had a hard time finding them.
Another argument could be that there were once millions of buffalo where there are none now, as far as the overgrazing goes.
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