yuo know all that money they want to use to bail out the shitty US economy...?

sponger

catefrances wrote:

oh i know that. doesnt make me any less amused though, knowing a lot of countries' economies are closely tied to the US.
its just i see the wall street cogniscenti running around freaking out and all the wizards crying woe and i laugh. welcome to the global community people. you want to be in bed with these people then be my guest. you wnat to salute the flag for capitlaism then snap to it but please be prepared to take it on the chin when it all goes to hell in a handbasket. this is what its all about after all.

Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.

In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.

Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.

DriftingByTheStorm

sponger wrote:

Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.

In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.

Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.

Check out this article series i found recently on the unfortunate (and contrived) (d)evolution of Capitalism towards Socialism (and then Communism), and indeed, on the long understood and deliberately engineered effort to steer the country quietly in that direction.

THE ROAD TO A UNITED SOVIETS OF AMERICA II, III.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.

In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.

Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.

this is not an argument against capitalism. im simply pointing out that if you want to reap the rewards of the good, then you have to take the inevitable bad when it comes. i see a great potentiality in capitalism, but as you have pointed out, in such a society, people screw each other. tis a shame with such wealth, there is poverty and homelessness but that seems to be the way were prepared to live. were happy to allow the government to bail out these highflyers but we dont want them to help the people who actually need it. the government is representative of us all, not just those with great wads of cash nor those who manipulated the economy into the position it is now.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

keep on rocking in the free world...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTTsyk-pyd8

:cool:

sponger

catefrances wrote:

were happy to allow the government to bail out these highflyers but we dont want them to help the people who actually need it.

Personally, if the government is going to bail out anybody, I'd rather see the banks get bailed out than people who knowingly plunged themselves into too much debt so they could show their friends what a beautiful house they own.

These people had bad credit, no gainful employment, and no assets, yet they were snapping up homes well out of their means. This raised the cost of living for everyone in the whole entire country -- even for renters.

Meanwhile, average income did not go up. People in 2007, on average, were making the same wages that they were making in 2001. But, the cost of living went up.

So, for folks like yours truly who could've actually purchased a home, but decided not to because I didn't want to over-extend myself, rental expenses almost doubled, yet take home pay hardly bunched an inch.

Do you think that's fair? Do you really think that these irresponsible borrowers who knowingly fucked the entire country's cost of living out of their own greed and short-sightedness deserve to have their debts forgiven more than the banks who could actually drop that bail out money directly into small businesses so that the economy keeps moving?

You'd rather just hand over a bunch of free houses to greedy people who raised rents so they could afford homes that they didn't deserve to own?

catefrances

sponger wrote:

Personally, if the government is going to bail out anybody, I'd rather see the banks get bailed out than people who knowingly plunged themselves into too much debt so they could show their friends what a beautiful house they own.

These people had bad credit, no gainful employment, and no assets, yet they were snapping up homes well out of their means. This raised the cost of living for everyone in the whole entire country -- even for renters.

Meanwhile, average income did not go up. People in 2007, on average, were making the same wages that they were making in 2001. But, the cost of living went up.

So, for folks like yours truly who could've actually purchased a home, but decided not to because I didn't want to over-extend myself, rental expenses almost doubled, yet take home pay hardly bunched an inch.

Do you think that's fair? Do you really think that these irresponsible borrowers who knowingly fucked the entire country's cost of living out of their own greed and short-sightedness deserve to have their debts forgiven more than the banks who could actually drop that bail out money directly into small businesses so that the economy keeps moving?

You'd rather just hand over a bunch of free houses to greedy people who raised rents so they could afford homes that they didn't deserve to own?

cant have irresponsible borrowers without irresponsible lenders.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

cant have irresponsible borrowers without irresponsible lenders.

But, I don't feel the least bit sorry for 90 year old grandma who blew her own guts out. If anything, she owes me 50% of the rent that I've been paying for the last five years.

I don't think anyone should be getting bailed out. But if there is anyone who could use that money to actually make any kind of a difference, it's the banks.

Still, no bailout is going to do anything except inflate the dollar. And yes I agree that the lenders are just as guilty if not more guilty, and should spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they fucked over 250 million people as a conservative estimate.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

But, I don't feel the least bit sorry for 90 year old grandma who blew her own guts out. If anything, she owes me 50% of the rent that I've been paying for the last five years.

I don't think anyone should be getting bailed out. But if there is anyone who could use that money to actually make any kind of a difference, it's the banks.

Still, no bailout is going to do anything except inflate the dollar. And yes I agree that the lenders are just as guilty if not more guilty, and should spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they fucked over 250 million people as a conservative estimate.

even if shes your 90 year old grandma?

im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

even if shes your 90 year old grandma?

im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.

My grandma would never have been so near-sighted. My grandparents own a small ranch free and clear in southern california. They could've sold it for $$$ and hitched a ride with the housing bubble, but they knew something was up.

Suicide grandma bought the house in 2004....most likely a subprime borrower.

nothinghead

catefrances wrote:

even if shes your 90 year old grandma?

im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.

I'm having trouble with the thought that an 86 year old woman (the loan was taken out in 2004) managed to get a 30 year loan.

I'd hate to be one hundred and sixteen years old and still paying down debt.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

She bought the house in 2004....most likely a subprime borrower.

nothinghead wrote:

I'm having trouble with the thought that an 86 year old woman (the loan was taken out in 2004) managed to get a 30 year loan.

I'd hate to be one hundred and sixteen years old and still paying down debt.

see irresponsible lending. fucking insanity.

sponger

catefrances wrote:

see irresponsible lending. fucking insanity.

Yeah and chances are that no one will ever serve a day in jail for it.

catefrances

i will never have a mortgage. id eat one of my children before i ever allowed myself to be beholden to a bank in such a way.