What do you do for a living? What happens with then company you work for can't borrow any money to pay bills in slow times and they close down or lay you off? Then you have no job and can't pay your mortgage/rent or for healthcare, etc. Would you say that you deserve it just for living in a capitalist system even if you lived within your means your whole life?
i dont have a mortgage nor do i have private healthcare insurance. i dont live in debt. nor do i have any credit cards. i am also lucky enough to live in a country that has a socialised health system. and i refuse to play a game that keeps me behind the 8 ball.
what i am saying is you cant just be happy and content to reap the rewards of a particular economic system and yet scream blue murder when that system takes a nose dive or goes belly up.
do you think the cry about this is going up from average joe? NO. tis coming from the fat cats who see their privilege being threatened. the only reason you are aware of the 'problem' is cause they need your support in order that the government may bail their greedy arses out of a dilemma of their own making.
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take a good look
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i just need to say
you dont give some poor schmuck $300,000. you pay off their mortgage 'free and clear'. the home owner uses previous money earmarked to repay the banks for mindless economy stimulation and the lending institution gets the borrowed price to 'invest', reaping whatever rewards it can.
of course ,you could always give the financial sector billions of dollars and take your chances yet again that theyll do the responsible thing. :rolleyes:
With all do respect, i think you're missing the picture big time.
And before i go further, BELIEVE me i am NOT siding with the banks on this.
1. Paying off a 300K mortgage is the same as giving some one 300K cash.
You do realize they can turn right around and SELL THE HOUSE, right?
2. You have not addressed the systemic risk in the system, which is due to leverage AT THE BANKS (not at the consumer level) and which is far more of a concern to the economists than some poor homeless shmuck. Sorry i'm just telling you how it is.
3. No one is GIVING the banks 700 billion.
The government is going to PURCHASE securities (which admittedly are pretty fucked investments, at least right now) and then try to resell them down the road.
I REALLY wish people would try to understand this situation just a LITTLE more, before they go freaking out all over the board about erroneous notions.
I liken our economy to that movie that was released some years back and has become somewhat of a metaphor for keeping up a facade...."Weekend At Bernie's."
Our economy is basically this affluent middle-aged party animal who one day just croaked. And our government is trying to fool Americans and the rest of the world into thinking that it's still breathing.
The trouble with this $700 billion bill is that all it really does in the grand scheme of things is wave Bernie's arm in the air so that passerby can say "Hello" back and think everything is hunky dorey.
BTW, the reason why prime borrowers are defaulting on their loans is because they are sick of making payments on a debt that is significantly larger than the value of their homes.
And the reason why their debt is significantly larger than the value of their home is because subprime borrowers, unconventional loans, and low, low interest rates inflated home values into the stratosphere, which is inherently dangerous -- and any kind of government intervention to maintain that level of inflation is just a really bad idea to put it plainly.
With all do respect, i think you're missing the picture big time.
And before i go further, BELIEVE me i am NOT siding with the banks on this.
1. Paying off a 300K mortgage is the same as giving some one 300K cash.
You do realize they can turn right around and SELL THE HOUSE, right?
2. You have not addressed the systemic risk in the system, which is due to leverage AT THE BANKS (not at the consumer level) and which is far more of a concern to the economists than some poor homeless shmuck. Sorry i'm just telling you how it is.
3. No one is GIVING the banks 700 billion.
The government is going to PURCHASE securities (which admittedly are pretty fucked investments, at least right now) and then try to resell them down the road.
I REALLY wish people would try to understand this situation just a LITTLE more, before they go freaking out all over the board about erroneous notions.
well then why dont you show me what the big picture is, instread of insinuating im missing it.
oh my what an outrageous thought that the owner of a house would turn around sell it? :rolleyes: i imagine a proviso could be added that stated a period of time the bailed out owner couldnt sell his house for.
you tell me ohno dont be silly the abnks arent getting any money, the government is going to purchase securities(from?) and sell them at a later date. and then you say these securities area fucked up investment. kinda makes them an oxymoron then doesnt it?
the ONLY thing i dont understand is WHY its deemed necessary to bail out the economy when that goes against the principles of capitalism. these things happen, tis what capitalism is all about. they need to be sucked up and dealt with, not propped up in some false economy. capitalism is about sinking or swimming. lets all learn to swim so next time we can save ourselves.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you tell me ohno dont be silly the abnks arent getting any money, the government is going to purchase securities(from?) and sell them at a later date. and then you say these securities area fucked up investment. kinda makes them an oxymoron then doesnt it?
Catefrances, I am thoroughly impressed by your analysis. You have demonstrated a fundamental understanding of a free market economy -an understanding that might very well escape even those who have formally studied in the field of finance/economics.
Yes, it is an oxymoron. That is, if these securities were truly worth the $700 billion that the government is handing over for them, then the banks would have no problem selling them on the market.
And therein lies the problem. What exactly is market value in this instance? It goes without saying that the government is going to pay above market value. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for the banks to rely on the government to bail them out.
So, in essence, a great deal of money is actually being simply "handed over" to the banks. Exactly what that amount really amounts to is definitely going to be difficult to determine.
But, I think Drifting's point is that real estate isn't exactly a fleet of Ford Pintos. Real estate will always carry some measurable worth no matter how sluggish the economic environment. And that real estate will be at the government's disposal to do with as it pleases, which does detract from the notion that the whole $700 Billion is a hand out.
... But, I think Drifting's point is that real estate isn't exactly a fleet of Ford Pintos. Real estate will always carry some measurable worth no matter how sluggish the economic environment. And that real estate will be at the government's disposal to do with as it pleases, which does detract from the notion that the whole $700 Billion is a hand out.
well my point was why bail out a group that will in all likelihood just piss it all up against the preverbial wall. at least my way some definite good will come out of it. plus, just imagine how much money joe average can sink into the capitalist consumer system when hes not got a mortgage to worry about.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well my point was why bail out a group that will in all likelihood just piss it all up against the preverbial wall. at least my way some definite good will come out of it. plus, just imagine how much money joe average can sink into the capitalist consumer system when hes not got a mortgage to worry about.
The assumption is that the banks will use that cash to unfreeze the credit lines upon which many small businesses rely in order to make payroll among other crucial expenses that are involved with running a business.
I heard an opinion like yours earlier today. Someone said, "What did the banks do with all those profits?"
The answer is that the profits immediately went to shareholders and executive salaries. The rest was leveraged into more lending arrangements.
And that is a typical thing for corporations to do. That is, any funds left over after shareholder obligations and salaries is usually invested in the company's operations. A bank's main operation is to lend money.
And that's why those billions would actually do more for the economy in the hands of bankers than in the hands of the average Joe at this point in time.
When there isn't a credit freeze, then, yes, the average joe would certainly do a better job of stimulating economic growth through good old consumer spending. That is, after all, what we're put on this earth to do --spend.
As for relieving average joe of his mortgage woes...well, do you believe that it is fair for people who did not over-extend themselves to purchase a home?
Please keep in mind that the housing industry was inflated to insane levels. People were paying upwards of a half million bucks for crappy shitty old ass houses that shouldn't have sold for more than a quarter million.
If you suddenly pay off all of those inflated mortgages with government hand out money, you essentially make it all the more impossible for other average joes to reasonably afford a home of his own someday.
no, im not missing the point of your question. youre missing the fact that i dont care for the capitalist system when this is the result.
you mean to tell me that people will have to live WITHIN their means? what a novel concept. tis the way i live my life, by choice, so whats the big deal?
there are no 'innocent' people when youre complicit with the system. you want the benefits then you have to deal with the negative consequences too.
It's very different here cate. I was amazed at how easy it seems to be to get credit here. In Australia, financiers would check your CRA, if you had a paid default or an unpaid default it would be difficult to get credit unless a period had passed. Here it was like open slather, they work on a points system and the financiers are screwing the little people. They have mortgage brokers that are paid massive commissions, so of course they will do anything to get the loan approved for the customer. Australia introduced the FSRA (financial services reform act) to target and stop a lot of these underhanded deals going on. There are hefty fines in place, and i'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars for any individual or corporation who is seen to be not following the rules that the FSRA has put in place. That soon put a stop to the way they were conducting their business. They have to do extensive training so they can stay compliant and they have a duty of disclosure to the customer regarding fees, commissions etc. I don't know if they have anything like that here, but if they do, someones not monitoring it properly.
It's been a bit of an eye opener. I was very naive before i moved, believing that the USA would have to have the most advanced and best way of doing just about anything. Not true.
First of all, I just want to say it isn't just the US economy that's going to suffer. The whole fucking world invested their TRILLIONS of dollars in our stupid housing market.
And the whole fucking world LOST trillions of dollars. As of right now, no one really knows how bad the damage is, but one thing is for sure, and that's that the damage is going to be really bad for everyone.
So, in summation, I wouldn't say "the shitty US economy." A more correct term is the soon-to-be-fucked world economy.
First of all, I just want to say it isn't just the US economy that's going to suffer. The whole fucking world invested their TRILLIONS of dollars in our stupid housing market.
And the whole fucking world LOST trillions of dollars. As of right now, no one really knows how bad the damage is, but one thing is for sure, and that's that the damage is going to be really bad for everyone.
So, in summation, I wouldn't say "the shitty US economy." A more correct term is the soon-to-be-fucked world economy.
oh i know that. doesnt make me any less amused though, knowing a lot of countries' economies are closely tied to the US.
its just i see the wall street cogniscenti running around freaking out and all the wizards crying woe and i laugh. welcome to the global community people. you want to be in bed with these people then be my guest. you wnat to salute the flag for capitlaism then snap to it but please be prepared to take it on the chin when it all goes to hell in a handbasket. this is what its all about after all.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh i know that. doesnt make me any less amused though, knowing a lot of countries' economies are closely tied to the US.
its just i see the wall street cogniscenti running around freaking out and all the wizards crying woe and i laugh. welcome to the global community people. you want to be in bed with these people then be my guest. you wnat to salute the flag for capitlaism then snap to it but please be prepared to take it on the chin when it all goes to hell in a handbasket. this is what its all about after all.
Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.
In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.
Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.
Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.
In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.
Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.
Check out this article series i found recently on the unfortunate (and contrived) (d)evolution of Capitalism towards Socialism (and then Communism), and indeed, on the long understood and deliberately engineered effort to steer the country quietly in that direction.
Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.
In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.
Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.
this is not an argument against capitalism. im simply pointing out that if you want to reap the rewards of the good, then you have to take the inevitable bad when it comes. i see a great potentiality in capitalism, but as you have pointed out, in such a society, people screw each other. tis a shame with such wealth, there is poverty and homelessness but that seems to be the way were prepared to live. were happy to allow the government to bail out these highflyers but we dont want them to help the people who actually need it. the government is representative of us all, not just those with great wads of cash nor those who manipulated the economy into the position it is now.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
were happy to allow the government to bail out these highflyers but we dont want them to help the people who actually need it.
Personally, if the government is going to bail out anybody, I'd rather see the banks get bailed out than people who knowingly plunged themselves into too much debt so they could show their friends what a beautiful house they own.
These people had bad credit, no gainful employment, and no assets, yet they were snapping up homes well out of their means. This raised the cost of living for everyone in the whole entire country -- even for renters.
Meanwhile, average income did not go up. People in 2007, on average, were making the same wages that they were making in 2001. But, the cost of living went up.
So, for folks like yours truly who could've actually purchased a home, but decided not to because I didn't want to over-extend myself, rental expenses almost doubled, yet take home pay hardly bunched an inch.
Do you think that's fair? Do you really think that these irresponsible borrowers who knowingly fucked the entire country's cost of living out of their own greed and short-sightedness deserve to have their debts forgiven more than the banks who could actually drop that bail out money directly into small businesses so that the economy keeps moving?
You'd rather just hand over a bunch of free houses to greedy people who raised rents so they could afford homes that they didn't deserve to own?
Personally, if the government is going to bail out anybody, I'd rather see the banks get bailed out than people who knowingly plunged themselves into too much debt so they could show their friends what a beautiful house they own.
These people had bad credit, no gainful employment, and no assets, yet they were snapping up homes well out of their means. This raised the cost of living for everyone in the whole entire country -- even for renters.
Meanwhile, average income did not go up. People in 2007, on average, were making the same wages that they were making in 2001. But, the cost of living went up.
So, for folks like yours truly who could've actually purchased a home, but decided not to because I didn't want to over-extend myself, rental expenses almost doubled, yet take home pay hardly bunched an inch.
Do you think that's fair? Do you really think that these irresponsible borrowers who knowingly fucked the entire country's cost of living out of their own greed and short-sightedness deserve to have their debts forgiven more than the banks who could actually drop that bail out money directly into small businesses so that the economy keeps moving?
You'd rather just hand over a bunch of free houses to greedy people who raised rents so they could afford homes that they didn't deserve to own?
cant have irresponsible borrowers without irresponsible lenders.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
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i just need to say
cant have irresponsible borrowers without irresponsible lenders.
But, I don't feel the least bit sorry for 90 year old grandma who blew her own guts out. If anything, she owes me 50% of the rent that I've been paying for the last five years.
I don't think anyone should be getting bailed out. But if there is anyone who could use that money to actually make any kind of a difference, it's the banks.
Still, no bailout is going to do anything except inflate the dollar. And yes I agree that the lenders are just as guilty if not more guilty, and should spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they fucked over 250 million people as a conservative estimate.
But, I don't feel the least bit sorry for 90 year old grandma who blew her own guts out. If anything, she owes me 50% of the rent that I've been paying for the last five years.
I don't think anyone should be getting bailed out. But if there is anyone who could use that money to actually make any kind of a difference, it's the banks.
Still, no bailout is going to do anything except inflate the dollar. And yes I agree that the lenders are just as guilty if not more guilty, and should spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they fucked over 250 million people as a conservative estimate.
even if shes your 90 year old grandma?
im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.
hear my name
take a good look
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im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.
My grandma would never have been so near-sighted. My grandparents own a small ranch free and clear in southern california. They could've sold it for $$$ and hitched a ride with the housing bubble, but they knew something was up.
Suicide grandma bought the house in 2004....most likely a subprime borrower.
Comments
i dont have a mortgage nor do i have private healthcare insurance. i dont live in debt. nor do i have any credit cards. i am also lucky enough to live in a country that has a socialised health system. and i refuse to play a game that keeps me behind the 8 ball.
what i am saying is you cant just be happy and content to reap the rewards of a particular economic system and yet scream blue murder when that system takes a nose dive or goes belly up.
do you think the cry about this is going up from average joe? NO. tis coming from the fat cats who see their privilege being threatened. the only reason you are aware of the 'problem' is cause they need your support in order that the government may bail their greedy arses out of a dilemma of their own making.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
With all do respect, i think you're missing the picture big time.
And before i go further, BELIEVE me i am NOT siding with the banks on this.
1. Paying off a 300K mortgage is the same as giving some one 300K cash.
You do realize they can turn right around and SELL THE HOUSE, right?
2. You have not addressed the systemic risk in the system, which is due to leverage AT THE BANKS (not at the consumer level) and which is far more of a concern to the economists than some poor homeless shmuck. Sorry i'm just telling you how it is.
3. No one is GIVING the banks 700 billion.
The government is going to PURCHASE securities (which admittedly are pretty fucked investments, at least right now) and then try to resell them down the road.
I REALLY wish people would try to understand this situation just a LITTLE more, before they go freaking out all over the board about erroneous notions.
Here, PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO.
Thanks.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Our economy is basically this affluent middle-aged party animal who one day just croaked. And our government is trying to fool Americans and the rest of the world into thinking that it's still breathing.
The trouble with this $700 billion bill is that all it really does in the grand scheme of things is wave Bernie's arm in the air so that passerby can say "Hello" back and think everything is hunky dorey.
BTW, the reason why prime borrowers are defaulting on their loans is because they are sick of making payments on a debt that is significantly larger than the value of their homes.
And the reason why their debt is significantly larger than the value of their home is because subprime borrowers, unconventional loans, and low, low interest rates inflated home values into the stratosphere, which is inherently dangerous -- and any kind of government intervention to maintain that level of inflation is just a really bad idea to put it plainly.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
well then why dont you show me what the big picture is, instread of insinuating im missing it.
oh my what an outrageous thought that the owner of a house would turn around sell it? :rolleyes: i imagine a proviso could be added that stated a period of time the bailed out owner couldnt sell his house for.
you tell me ohno dont be silly the abnks arent getting any money, the government is going to purchase securities(from?) and sell them at a later date. and then you say these securities area fucked up investment. kinda makes them an oxymoron then doesnt it?
the ONLY thing i dont understand is WHY its deemed necessary to bail out the economy when that goes against the principles of capitalism. these things happen, tis what capitalism is all about. they need to be sucked up and dealt with, not propped up in some false economy. capitalism is about sinking or swimming. lets all learn to swim so next time we can save ourselves.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Catefrances, I am thoroughly impressed by your analysis. You have demonstrated a fundamental understanding of a free market economy -an understanding that might very well escape even those who have formally studied in the field of finance/economics.
Yes, it is an oxymoron. That is, if these securities were truly worth the $700 billion that the government is handing over for them, then the banks would have no problem selling them on the market.
And therein lies the problem. What exactly is market value in this instance? It goes without saying that the government is going to pay above market value. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for the banks to rely on the government to bail them out.
So, in essence, a great deal of money is actually being simply "handed over" to the banks. Exactly what that amount really amounts to is definitely going to be difficult to determine.
But, I think Drifting's point is that real estate isn't exactly a fleet of Ford Pintos. Real estate will always carry some measurable worth no matter how sluggish the economic environment. And that real estate will be at the government's disposal to do with as it pleases, which does detract from the notion that the whole $700 Billion is a hand out.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
well my point was why bail out a group that will in all likelihood just piss it all up against the preverbial wall. at least my way some definite good will come out of it. plus, just imagine how much money joe average can sink into the capitalist consumer system when hes not got a mortgage to worry about.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The assumption is that the banks will use that cash to unfreeze the credit lines upon which many small businesses rely in order to make payroll among other crucial expenses that are involved with running a business.
I heard an opinion like yours earlier today. Someone said, "What did the banks do with all those profits?"
The answer is that the profits immediately went to shareholders and executive salaries. The rest was leveraged into more lending arrangements.
And that is a typical thing for corporations to do. That is, any funds left over after shareholder obligations and salaries is usually invested in the company's operations. A bank's main operation is to lend money.
And that's why those billions would actually do more for the economy in the hands of bankers than in the hands of the average Joe at this point in time.
When there isn't a credit freeze, then, yes, the average joe would certainly do a better job of stimulating economic growth through good old consumer spending. That is, after all, what we're put on this earth to do --spend.
As for relieving average joe of his mortgage woes...well, do you believe that it is fair for people who did not over-extend themselves to purchase a home?
Please keep in mind that the housing industry was inflated to insane levels. People were paying upwards of a half million bucks for crappy shitty old ass houses that shouldn't have sold for more than a quarter million.
If you suddenly pay off all of those inflated mortgages with government hand out money, you essentially make it all the more impossible for other average joes to reasonably afford a home of his own someday.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
It's been a bit of an eye opener. I was very naive before i moved, believing that the USA would have to have the most advanced and best way of doing just about anything. Not true.
And the whole fucking world LOST trillions of dollars. As of right now, no one really knows how bad the damage is, but one thing is for sure, and that's that the damage is going to be really bad for everyone.
So, in summation, I wouldn't say "the shitty US economy." A more correct term is the soon-to-be-fucked world economy.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
oh i know that. doesnt make me any less amused though, knowing a lot of countries' economies are closely tied to the US.
its just i see the wall street cogniscenti running around freaking out and all the wizards crying woe and i laugh. welcome to the global community people. you want to be in bed with these people then be my guest. you wnat to salute the flag for capitlaism then snap to it but please be prepared to take it on the chin when it all goes to hell in a handbasket. this is what its all about after all.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Why people continue to use this as an argument against capitalism is beyond me. It has little to do with capitalism and more to do with human nature.
In a capitalist society, people screw each other. In a socialist society, as history has shown, one person screws everybody else.
Any way you look at it, everybody gets screwed. In the case of capitalism, at least it's something that we can take part in.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Check out this article series i found recently on the unfortunate (and contrived) (d)evolution of Capitalism towards Socialism (and then Communism), and indeed, on the long understood and deliberately engineered effort to steer the country quietly in that direction.
THE ROAD TO A UNITED SOVIETS OF AMERICA II, III.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
this is not an argument against capitalism. im simply pointing out that if you want to reap the rewards of the good, then you have to take the inevitable bad when it comes. i see a great potentiality in capitalism, but as you have pointed out, in such a society, people screw each other. tis a shame with such wealth, there is poverty and homelessness but that seems to be the way were prepared to live. were happy to allow the government to bail out these highflyers but we dont want them to help the people who actually need it. the government is representative of us all, not just those with great wads of cash nor those who manipulated the economy into the position it is now.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTTsyk-pyd8
:cool:
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Personally, if the government is going to bail out anybody, I'd rather see the banks get bailed out than people who knowingly plunged themselves into too much debt so they could show their friends what a beautiful house they own.
These people had bad credit, no gainful employment, and no assets, yet they were snapping up homes well out of their means. This raised the cost of living for everyone in the whole entire country -- even for renters.
Meanwhile, average income did not go up. People in 2007, on average, were making the same wages that they were making in 2001. But, the cost of living went up.
So, for folks like yours truly who could've actually purchased a home, but decided not to because I didn't want to over-extend myself, rental expenses almost doubled, yet take home pay hardly bunched an inch.
Do you think that's fair? Do you really think that these irresponsible borrowers who knowingly fucked the entire country's cost of living out of their own greed and short-sightedness deserve to have their debts forgiven more than the banks who could actually drop that bail out money directly into small businesses so that the economy keeps moving?
You'd rather just hand over a bunch of free houses to greedy people who raised rents so they could afford homes that they didn't deserve to own?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
cant have irresponsible borrowers without irresponsible lenders.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But, I don't feel the least bit sorry for 90 year old grandma who blew her own guts out. If anything, she owes me 50% of the rent that I've been paying for the last five years.
I don't think anyone should be getting bailed out. But if there is anyone who could use that money to actually make any kind of a difference, it's the banks.
Still, no bailout is going to do anything except inflate the dollar. And yes I agree that the lenders are just as guilty if not more guilty, and should spend the rest of their lives in prison thinking about how they fucked over 250 million people as a conservative estimate.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
even if shes your 90 year old grandma?
im having trouble with the thought that a 90 year old was still paying off a mortgage.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My grandma would never have been so near-sighted. My grandparents own a small ranch free and clear in southern california. They could've sold it for $$$ and hitched a ride with the housing bubble, but they knew something was up.
Suicide grandma bought the house in 2004....most likely a subprime borrower.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I'm having trouble with the thought that an 86 year old woman (the loan was taken out in 2004) managed to get a 30 year loan.
I'd hate to be one hundred and sixteen years old and still paying down debt.
see irresponsible lending. fucking insanity.
take a good look
this could be the day
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i just need to say
Yeah and chances are that no one will ever serve a day in jail for it.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say