My stance on the death penalty...

Vedderlution_Baby

As of Wednesday November 8th, 2006 my stance on the issue has changed. I'm against it. Just wanted to get that out there.

hsewif

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

As of Wednesday November 8th, 2006 my stance on the issue has changed. I'm against it. Just wanted to get that out there.

and you were for it yesterday?

why the change? that's quite a flip-flop.

Vedderlution_Baby

Well, I've been rethinking my position but this is the first time I've declared that I'm against it.

First off, it doesn't work at all. Being killed hasn't defered people away from crime.

Second, it's too...final and unforgiving. If an innocent person is put into prison, even though it was fucked up that they were convicted in the first place, they have a chance of getting out witht the discovery of new evidence. If someone is killed and then found to be innocent, well, what the fuck are you supposed to do? "OOPS!"

Thirdly, I can't get past how hypocritcal it is.
"Killing is bad! You have been convicted of murder!"
"What's my punishment"
"Uh...well...we're going to kill y..ou"

Mrs.Vedder78

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Well, I've been rethinking my position but this is the first time I've declared that I'm against it.

First off, it doesn't work at all. Being killed hasn't defered people away from crime.

Second, it's too...final and unforgiving. If an innocent person is put into prison, even though it was fucked up that they were convicted in the first place, they have a chance of getting out witht the discovery of new evidence. If someone is killed and then found to be innocent, well, what the fuck are you supposed to do? "OOPS!"

Thirdly, I can't get past how hypocritcal it is.
"Killing is bad! You have been convicted of murder!"
"What's my punishment"
"Uh...well...we're going to kill y..ou"

Im torn on this subject, though I lean more being against it...
Sometimes I see cases that make me feel like that person needs to die...

But like you I ponder about the same things, first do we have the right to kill someone because they killed, aren't we depriving someone of their life as well ? though its allright because we did it in the name of justice?
And the other and scariest point, what if the person is not guilty?, what if Damon Echols for example gets executed and 3 years later they realize 'Oh I guess those who opposed the sentence were right, he was innocent" what do we do then? bring him back from the dead? Cant.

There are many cases that get murder convictions based on circumstancial evidence, and I think that putting someone to die that claims is innocent is way to much of a risk to take.

Vedderlution_Baby

Mrs_Vedder78 wrote:

Im torn on this subject, though I lean more being against it...
Sometimes I see cases that make me feel like that person needs to die...

But like you I ponder about the same things, first do we have the right to kill someone because they killed, aren't we depriving someone of their life as well ? though its allright because we did it in the name of justice?
And the other and scariest point, what if the person is not guilty?, what if Damon Echols for example gets executed and 3 years later they realize 'Oh I guess those who opposed the sentence were right, he was innocent" what do we do then? bring him back from the dead? Cant.

There are many cases that get murder convictions based on circumstancial evidence, and I think that putting someone to die that claims is innocent is way to much of a risk to take.

What's going to be hardest for me is not allowing my emotions to become involved

prism

not to mention that the cost are so much more for death penalty cases than for life in prison.



The Financial Costs of the Death Penalty

Death penalty cases are much more expensive than other criminal cases and cost more than imprisonment for life with no possibility of parole. In California, capital trials are six times more costly than other murder trials.(1) A study in Kansas indicated that a capital trial costs $116,700 more than an ordinary murder trial.(2) Complex pre-trial motions, lengthy jury selections, and expenses for expert witnesses are all likely to add to the costs in death penalty cases. The irreversibility of the death sentence requires courts to follow heightened due process in the preparation and course of the trial. The separate sentencing phase of the trial can take even longer than the guilt or innocence phase of the trial. And defendants are much more likely to insist on a trial when they are facing a possible death sentence. After conviction, there are constitutionally mandated appeals which involve both prosecution and defense costs.

Most of these costs occur in every case for which capital punishment is sought, regardless of the outcome. Thus, the true cost of the death penalty includes all the added expenses of the "unsuccessful" trials in which the death penalty is sought but not achieved. Moreover, if a defendant is convicted but not given the death sentence, the state will still incur the costs of life imprisonment, in addition to the increased trial expenses.

For the states which employ the death penalty, this luxury comes at a high price. In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years.(3) In Florida, each execution is costing the state $3.2 million.(4) In financially strapped California, one report estimated that the state could save $90 million each year by abolishing capital punishment.(5) The New York Department of Correctional Services estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118 million annually.(6)



from http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html

ThumbingMyWay32

You changed your mind about the death penalty because one of the most caring and admirable leaders the world has ever known, Saddam Hussien, was sentenced to hang over the weekend.


I'm sure if someday down the road Bush is sentenced to the same fate you will surely see the morality of it all.

Vedderlution_Baby

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

You changed your mind about the death penalty because one of the most caring and admirable leaders the world has ever known, Saddam Hussien, was sentenced to hang over the weekend.


I'm sure if someday down the road Bush is sentenced to the same fate you will surely see the morality of it all.

How about you stop jumping to conclusions jackass.

ThumbingMyWay32

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

How about you stop jumping to conclusions jackass.

Well see.. I've invented this new game. It's called the "Jump to Conclusions" game.

You see, you have a mat, and it’s got some conclusions written on it, and you back up next to the mat, and think about a question, and then you jump to a conclusion. Right there on the mat, you jump to a conclusion…

I think I won?

Mrs.Vedder78

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Well see.. I've invented this new game. It's called the "Jump to Conclusions" game.

You see, you have a mat, and it’s got some conclusions written on it, and you back up next to the mat, and think about a question, and then you jump to a conclusion. Right there on the mat, you jump to a conclusion…

I think I won?

ahhhhhh!!!! Office Space! my favorite movie of all time!

Vedderlution_Baby

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Well see.. I've invented this new game. It's called the "Jump to Conclusions" game.

You see, you have a mat, and it’s got some conclusions written on it, and you back up next to the mat, and think about a question, and then you jump to a conclusion. Right there on the mat, you jump to a conclusion…

I think I won?

That is pretty funny.

Sorry about the jackass comment.

But I've been grappling with this for awhile now, long before assface was sentenced to hang. And no, if bush was convicted, I would not support his death.

ThumbingMyWay32

Mrs_Vedder78 wrote:

ahhhhhh!!!! Office Space! my favorite movie of all time!

I'm glad someone clung to that!

ThumbingMyWay32

I'm more of an eye for an eye kind of person.

If you take someone's life, in my opinion, you default on your own life.

Since most liberals don't believe in God I would think they would have no sense of understanding that the judicial system may be playing God. Factually it wouldn't make sense. That may not make sense to some of you, but it does to me.

righteousbabe

I like to think I am against the death penalty but I am sure if someone killed someone on purpose that I loved I would be having second thoughts. That's where my big flip flop might be. It is easy for me to sit here and say I am against the death penalty, but who knows, if the shit hit the fan,...

ThumbingMyWay32

righteousbabe wrote:

I like to think I am against the death penalty but I am sure if someone killed someone on purpose that I loved I would be having second thoughts. That's where my big flip flop might be. It is easy for me to sit here and say I am against the death penalty, but who knows, if the shit hit the fan,...

Maybe this very statement sheds some light on ones thought about abortion? No?

Ebizzie

I want to see individuals convicted of violent crimes sentenced to hard labor for the rest of their lives....I'm talking like 16 hours per day performing HARD labor. They get no free time outside of sleeping hours and their meals should contain nothing but the absolute cheapest, nastiest ingredients the cooks can find. I like that much better than giving someone the easy way out, a lethal injection that softly numbs their pain and puts them to sleep forever.

But being the bleeding hearts don't believe in and won't allow a strict labor punishment, the death penalty will have to do.

ThumbingMyWay32

Ebizzie wrote:

I want to see individuals convicted of violent crimes sentenced to hard labor for the rest of their lives....I'm talking like 16 hours per day performing HARD labor. They get no free time outside of sleeping hours and their meals should contain nothing but the absolute cheapest, nastiest ingredients the cooks can find. I like that much better than giving someone the easy way out, a lethal injection that softly numbs their pain and puts them to sleep forever.

But being the bleeding hearts don't believe in and won't allow a strict labor punishment, the death penalty will have to do.

My God! That's almost as dispicable as having to listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers at a high volume!

You make me sick!

righteousbabe

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Maybe this very statement sheds some light on ones thought about abortion? No?

Of course, that's why there is so much debate about these issues. They are tricky.

soulsinging

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I'm more of an eye for an eye kind of person.

If you take someone's life, in my opinion, you default on your own life.

Since most liberals don't believe in God I would think they would have no sense of understanding that the judicial system may be playing God. Factually it wouldn't make sense. That may not make sense to some of you, but it does to me.

doesn't jesus specifically say that people should not be playing god? to an extent it's necessary... but capital punishment is going unnecessarily far when it is just as easy (and cheaper) to lock them up in prison forever.

plus, how dyou think jesus feels about capital punishment after that whole crucifixion thing?

ThumbingMyWay32

soulsinging wrote:

doesn't jesus specifically say that people should not be playing god? to an extent it's necessary... but capital punishment is going unnecessarily far when it is just as easy (and cheaper) to lock them up in prison forever.

plus, how dyou think jesus feels about capital punishment after that whole crucifixion thing?

I'm not sure. I'm not religious. But thanks for lumping me in with the rest of those "nut jobs".....

Whoa wait! It's cheaper to house an inmate for life than it is to eliminate them?

Whoa whoa whoa! What!?

You have just nullified your right to debate national debt and taxes!

soulsinging

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

I'm not sure. I'm not religious. But thanks for lumping me in with the rest of those "nut jobs".....

Whoa wait! It's cheaper to house an inmate for life than it is to eliminate them?

Whoa whoa whoa! What!?

You have just nullified your right to debate national debt and taxes!

do you not read? do you have any idea how much it costs to execute somebody? after the extensive appeals process, multiple trials, courts costs, fees, judicial reviews... read prism's post. i know reading is hard for you. but try it just once. it costs a LOT more to execute somebody than it does to jail them for life. a LOT. from the end of the trial to the time of execution can take a decade or more in many cases. that's 10 years of filing appeals, motions, etc, you paying for the defendant's attorney and the prosecutor, the judge, court reporter, funding the defendant's inane studies to "prove" they couldn't have done it. it costs a fortune.

you've lost your right to debate any topic that requires basic reading comprehension or critical analysis.