American Revolution
Vedderlution_Baby
Posts: 2,535
So what do you guys think about this? A lot of us grew up being told that the americans were being over taxed and having all their freedoms limited and taken advantage of by a tyraniccal britain. From my viewpoint, the british were more than a little patient with the colonists and actually pretty...can't think of a really good word so I'll just use this one...passive about the whole situation. From what I've read and learned, the colonists were all about taking and never about paying dues and accepting consequences.
And don't confuse for a post that's bashing america and calling them whiny or anything like that, i just want to start a conversation.
And don't confuse for a post that's bashing america and calling them whiny or anything like that, i just want to start a conversation.
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The Unanimous Declaration of Independence of the thirteen united States of America.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, having its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient suffrance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their acts of pretended legislation.
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally, the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever:
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizen taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
The Original Thirteen Colonies:
- Carolina (Later divided into North and South Carolina)
- Connecticut
- Delaware
- Georgia
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- New Hampshire
- New Jersey
- New York
- Pennsylvania
- Rhode Island
- Virginia
Well, I guess it depends on how much you like servitude and rule of will. Personally, I think freedom is a good thing. The colonists were all about taking? You've been reading too much Zinn.
HUH? Do you not understand why the revolution was fought? Read the document again. Read the list of grievances. Damn.
And it's really funny when they start talking to their "brethren"
You asked, I answered. You think the British monarchy was doing great things. I think they were assholes and we were justified. We will have no common ground here.
The colonists got a taste of self government and loved it!!! Sure they had acted like brats at times but shit they tried to send King George the III an Olive Branch petition to say "Hey we are loyal subjects, we don't want war"and he essentially said "Fuck Off!!" It was pretty tough for Britain to run it anyway being so far away. I love this stuff!
Thanks for posting the Declaration!
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
I was wondering about this the other day. The colonies sent the olive branch petition, but a letter written by John Adams that stated war was inevitable and that they (the colonies) should have already been on the attack arrived at the same time, which completely fucked up the petition. If that letter hadn't been confiscated and sent to britain, maybe something could have been worked out? Or do you think the king still would have disregarded the petition? I think theres a pretty good chance he would have said "Fuck you" but the petition pretty much called for negotiations between trade and such so maybe he wouldnt have.
Yeah that is a good point and question. I think Britain was getting fed up with the colonists attitude. But also as earlier threads maybe hinted at, money and trade were a huge part. Britain did treat the colonies like their bitch which they certainly were for making the country so much money. Too bad they kept fighting wars.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
a big part was also as ahnimus already said
"It was about monetary control which was restored to the Brittish bankers shortly after. So you might as well forget it ever happened."
Jefferson said the national banking system was just as dangerous to the country as a standing army, and he was right
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yeah, wasn't it Alexander Hamilton who was a big Federalist and really pushed the National Bank?
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Except that the the "forget it ever happened" part. That is just silly. We have some common history with Great Briton, but we have done some amazing things since telling them to go fuck themselves. I know some of you don't like to recognize the greatness of what we've acheived, but we went from a bastard colony to THE world economic, military and industrial leader in just a couple of hundred years. The "forget it ever happened" clause seems to suggest that it was all for naught. Nothing could be futher from the truth.
Yea, but all of your wealth belongs to Rockefellers, Morgans and Rothchilds which originated in Britain. Doh!
The same forces that caused the British taxation of American colonies now directly taxes Americans.
So what did you really gain?
Apparently a lot more than if we'd stayed subjugated. I don't understand how you think the revolution was much ado 'bout nothing. We leapfrogged GB in every measure that matters, very early on, and haven't looked back. We did so by fostering an environment that allowed people to achieve their potential. You're going to have to explain to me how your point has any relevance beyond some academic observation.
That is the guise yes.
A great story for independence!!!
Economics is boring!!!!! Let's talk about how we beat those lobster backs and gained an identity through freedom of religion, social mobility, and hard work.
See now isn't the history (from an American perspective), victory, and glory so much more exciting!!!
I too choose to bask in our victory for independence!!!
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Dude, the Americans drove my family out of Pensylvania during the American Revolution because we were Mennonites. Religious freedom my ass!
I was being somewhat sarcastic, but also a little serious in my statement about the glory and victory part. Obviously it has much more appeal than some hidden hard to swallow truths and people gravitate to the stories of valor and so forth. I do find it interesting that so many religious groups came to the New World to practice their beliefs but yet once they got here they excluded other beliefs. So others went and settled other places and formed other colonies. Kind of like, "We hated done to us over there, but we are going to do it to you over here because we found this turf first, except wait there are natives here but they do not really count."
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
lol
People are fucked up man.
'Every measure that matters'? Really?
Read the book 1776. It sums it up and is a good read. Their taxes were raised for wars being fought by the British on foreign soil and the colonies were at a point where they didn't feel tied to Britan anymore. The taxation without representation became a big deal because of this and things started going downhill quickly after that. I don't think it is a stupid question for you to ask either. We have to remember there were a large number of colonists who were asking the same question you are.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Vedderlution...how would you feel if you were taxed and refused the right to vote? Would you consider that "passive"?
Well, not every measure. The English play a more beautiful game of footy.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Oh yeah, right, here!