The morals of an atheist

Jeanie

angelica wrote:

The buffalo! Right! I was wondering what the OLS connection was!

...ohmmmm.........ohhhmmmmmm.........

Good grief girl!! How could you miss that???

aah very nice......whatever thoughts break your focus, just acknowledge them and then return to the breath.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

at the end of dances with wolves when wind in his hair is standing atop that cliff yelling out as dunbar and stands with a fist are leaving. that scene makes me a little teary.

To be honest it's been so long since I've seen it, that I only remember sobbing like a baby at the end of it, but can't recall why!!!

angelica

catefrances wrote:

at the end of dances with wolves when wind in his hair is standing atop that cliff yelling out as dunbar and stands with a fist are leaving. that scene makes me a little teary.

It is a moving scene.

sponger

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

So, I've had this argument used against me twice.

"But with an atheist, what stops them from killing another person?Or stealing? They don't have morals. Why would they?"

One of the most ridiculous, ignorant, and unfounded comments I've had the unfortunate luck to be around and hear.

Has any other atheist around here had their morals questioned with this argument? Why do people come up with this shit? And how can they really believe that?

Yes, I've been confronted with something like that. My response is, "So you mean to say that if you weren't afraid of going to hell, you'd be killing and stealing? Why on earth would you want to steal from people and kill them?"

If the other person is clever, (S)he will say, "I'm not afraid of going to hell. I am only inspired by the love of god."

My response is, "You don't fear god's wrath?"

catefrances

angelica wrote:

It is a moving scene.

i think that is because of its depiction of the love one man has for another. these two men that seemed so oppositional at the beginning could grow to become so respectful of each other. and to have that respect morph into love.

Jeanie

catefrances wrote:

i think that is because of its depiction of the love one man has for another. these two men that seemed so oppositional at the beginning could grow to become so respectful of each other. and to have that respect morph into love.

now wouldn't that be a marvelous thing if you could bottle it?

opposites learning to grow and be respectful of each other?

actually learning to love one another?

and how interesting that the thread has finally come back to this?

would be so much better for vedderlution and everyone, if we could learn to understand our differences and embrace them and be respectful of each other regardless.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i think that is because of its depiction of the love one man has for another. these two men that seemed so oppositional at the beginning could grow to become so respectful of each other. and to have that respect morph into love.

Yes, I agree with your characterization. (I LOVE that movie! *tear* )

onelongsong

Jeanie wrote:

hehe!! Actually it was pretty bloody funny to be honest!!
I'd been asking at all the video stores and my brother and sister in law too and I'd just got back from a fruitless expedition and I plonked down on Nan's couch and said jokingly,"Don't s'pose you've got Dances With Wolves?" and Nan, quick as a whip (which is hysterical given her appalling memory sometimes, a trait she's passed on to me and one we are always kidding each other about) says,"yes! now hang on while I find it!" and then pulls it from the shelf and hands it over!! My brother, S-I-L and I still have a giggle about it! Not to mention me and Nan!! It's the buffaloes I'm after of course!

Although we can add Field of Dreams to the viewing list for our slumber party!! I love that movie!! "If you build it they will come."

now get your mind back on the meditating!

my buffalo were in the movie. except the bull that ran at the kid. he's owned by a bloke in Mn that takes him around the country and even rides him.

onelongsong

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, that's right, go back to meditating Angelica. You are learning a lot more from it than I am from reading. I've just wasted my time reading all this research and stuff other people have wasted their lives on. You have all the fucking answers from a few hundred hours of meditation.

wait a minute. here's our resident atheist trying to tell us that atheists have morals yet this is the way he talks to a lady?????

angelica

onelongsong wrote:

wait a minute. here's our resident atheist trying to tell us that atheists have morals yet this is the way he talks to a lady?????

You know, I'm going to agree with this point, onelongsong, in a general sense.

I have seen athiests, over and over, give themselves license to be unethical, crude, offensive, and to otherwise infringe on people, because they believe they are not held to a higher standard. In such cases, it seems such individuals believe they have moved beyond a "false" morality of church/God, and that they are free to do as they choose without consequences.

As you and I both know, onelongsong, unfortunately for those who deny Higher universal standards, those standards exist, nonetheless. And payback happens for those who willingly violate such standards. Maybe the payback is in a classless life, void of value and meaning. When people deny the cause and effect of their actions, and disconnect from natural law, then when they receive the effects of their causes, they throw their hands up and say "why me". They have disconnected themselves from their natural ability to perceive direct cause and effect in their lives. They think they've randomly suffered in life, rather than understanding the exact and perfect universal justice of cause and effect.

Ahnimus

onelongsong wrote:

wait a minute. here's our resident atheist trying to tell us that atheists have morals yet this is the way he talks to a lady?????

Ummm, what does it have to do with talking to ladies? Are you still so deluded that you maintain this stupid paradigm?

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

You know, I'm going to agree with this point, onelongsong, in a general sense.

I have seen athiests, over and over, give themselves license to be unethical, crude, offensive, and to otherwise infringe on people, because they believe they are not held to a higher standard. In such cases, it seems such individuals believe they have moved beyond a "false" morality of church/God, and that they are free to do as they choose without consequences.

As you and I both know, onelongsong, unfortunately for those who deny Higher universal standards, those standards exist, nonetheless. And payback happens for those who willingly violate such standards. Maybe the payback is in a classless life, void of value and meaning. When people deny the cause and effect of their actions, and disconnect from natural law, then when they receive the effects of their causes, they throw their hands up and say "why me". They have disconnected themselves from their natural ability to perceive direct cause and effect in their lives. They think they've randomly suffered in life, rather than understanding the exact and perfect universal justice of cause and effect.

There is no natural law. It's simply that the herd of society moves one way and us "Atheists" move a different way. It doesn't make the herd right and it doesn't make us right, it just makes us different. But the herd wants to force it's morals and values on everyone. Those who stray are criminals and such.

Centuries ago, witchcraft was seen as one of the most immoral and heinous acts. Now it's kind of cool, kind of a fad, and certainly not considered immoral or criminal. What you think is moral is not what will be moral centuries from now. Women deserve no 'special' treatment.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

There is no natural law.

There are causes and effects for each thought, word and deed. Everything in the universe, on all levels, is finely synchronized.

It's simply that the herd of society moves one way and us "Atheists" move a different way. It doesn't make the herd right and it doesn't make us right, it just makes us different.

Regardless of what the Christian worldview sees, or what the athiest worldview sees, there remain consequences for each thought, word and deed that is finely synchronized with the universe. Some choices bring negative consequences, some bring positive consequences.

When an athiest believes they can do what they want, irrespective of the universal cause/effect dictates that surround them, well, they CAN do what they want, but they will live the consequence that poor thoughts, words or deeds bring them. They will also live the consequences that improved thoughts/words/deeds bring them. And likewise, they will live the consequences that healthy, positive thoughts/words/deeds bring to them. The universe reflects back to us, our choices made manifest. The athiest who is disconnected from this concept is blind, misled and lost. And they STILL reap what they sow. The universe does not judge this process. It just is what it is. All experience is valid. Even painful, blind and disconnected experience. When we realize that our causes create our actions, we can choose different causes and the universe will reflect back to us different choices made manifest.

Centuries ago, witchcraft was seen as one of the most immoral and heinous acts. Now it's kind of cool, kind of a fad, and certainly not considered immoral or criminal. What you think is moral is not what will be moral centuries from now. Women deserve no 'special' treatment.

You are talking about the relativism of views. I am talking about the absolute truth that lies beneath and supports such relativism.

Ahnimus

You are talking about cause and effect. It's a chaotic system though. There is no way of accurately predicting the outcome 100% of any given choice. If you could, you would be the universe, and you are not. You are professing a knowledge no person can ever possibly obtain. The buddhists have been trying for millenia.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

You are talking about cause and effect. It's a chaotic system though. There is no way of accurately predicting the outcome 100% of any given choice. If you could, you would be the universe, and you are not. You are professing a knowledge no person can ever possibly obtain. The buddhists have been trying for millenia.

You cannot predict accurately objectively speaking in order to come up with an objective universal system to follow.

Yet, from the inside, when we connect with our lives, and get centered and are attuned to and conscious of our choices and what kinds of consequences we get for our choices of thought/word/deed, we can learn to improve. Once we see the magic of conscious improvement and the reflection through the universe of an improved life, we realize that the sky is virtually the limit in terms of earthly potential and personal power. If we don't become conscious of these variables in our lives, we live unconsciously, learning the hard way, feeling unempowered, throwing our hands up and saying "why me". That's why it's poetic justice for the cocky, arrogant athiest who is disrepsectful and irreverent and who believes their ego-vision of superiority over other people, the tribe and to life. The irony follows them wherever they go, with whatever they think, say and do, in terms of reflecting all around them.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

You cannot predict accurately objectively speaking in order to come up with an objective universal system to follow.

Yet, from the inside, when we connect with our lives, and get centered and are attuned to and conscious of our choices and what kinds of consequences we get for our choices of thought/word/deed, we can learn to improve. Once we see the magic of conscious improvement and the reflection through the universe of an improved life, we realize that the sky is virtually the limit in terms of earthly potential and personal power. If we don't become conscious of these variables in our lives, we live unconsciously, learning the hard way, feeling unempowered, throwing our hands up and saying "why me". That's why it's poetic justice for the cocky, arrogant athiest who is disrepsectful and irreverent and who believes their ego-vision of superiority over other people, the tribe and to life. The irony follows them wherever they go, with whatever they think, say and do, in terms of reflecting all around them.

Are you posting from your yacht in the Carribean or are you full of shit?

Is this phenomena unique to atheists? I think not.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Are you posting from your yacht in the Carribean or are you full of shit?

Is this phenomena unique to atheists? I think not.

The truth stands on it's own, irrespective of my input.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Is this phenomena unique to atheists? I think not.

Oh, it's definitely not unique to athiests. However some athiests believe they are outside the bounds of universal governance and cause and effects. And this thread is addressing whether athiests are moral or not.

Further, this particular aspect of the conversation was raised by onelongsong, and taken up by myself, regarding a specific example of self-entitlement that you, yourself, took, seeming oblivious to the fact that the universe reflects consequences all around you for all to see. We can see when you are acting petty, small and ignorant when you do so. While you deny it, you deny yourself the chance to also see this and to learn from it.

This is an example, I realize we all do this all the time to different degrees, depending on our own IN-sight and personal sense of empowerment, via universal law.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Oh, it's definitely not unique to athiests. However some athiests believe they are outside the bounds of universal governance and cause and effects. And this thread is addressing whether athiests are moral or not.

Further, this particular aspect of the conversation was raised by onelongsong, and taken up by myself, regarding a specific example of self-entitlement that you, yourself, took, seeming oblivious to the fact that the universe reflects consequences all around you for all to see. We can see when you are acting petty, small and ignorant when you do so. While you deny it, you deny yourself the chance to also see this and to learn from it.

This is an example, I realize we all do this all the time to different degrees, depending on our own IN-sight and personal sense of empowerment, via universal law.

Perhaps you are the ignorant one. Your opinion may grant you immediate gratification, something I care not about. My eyes are on the future. I've come to accept that many people-such as yourself-will persecute those who reason. I'm not out to impress anyone, I'm out to discover and speak truth.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Ummm, what does it have to do with talking to ladies? Are you still so deluded that you maintain this stupid paradigm?

I want to counter this, onelongsong, and publicly commend you for your support of decent treatment for women. I did so privately yesterday. Blessings to you for that.

With false "equality" paradigms that are currently being internalized by some, it's being overlooked that 70% of women are very emotionally sensitive, particularly relative to the majority of men. The majority of women are this way for valid evolutionary purposes. However when this is overlooked by false "sameness" paradigms, and people ignore these important differences, thusly giving themselves license to be demeaning and degrading to anyone, much less sensitive people, and when the result is infringement, that reflects very poorly on the person in question.

I thank you, onelongsong, for addressing this issue. Peace.