This election bores me... Tweedle Dum vs TweedleDee

musicismylife78

I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...

Kann

So you'd think that by electing Nader/Ron Paul/Kucinich, you'd have changed the whole world? That this election would have convinced your parliament to vote in favor of your presidents (extreme) positions? That american decisions could influence corporations policies at the other end of the world? That what your president would be saying, (logically without the support of the legislative power) would be taken into account by the Chinese? That they would stop what they're doing in Africa? That Nader or Ron Paul (I actually like Kucinich ) has the cure for malaria, aids and tuberculosis? That the common american (same could be said about europeans) would give a fuck about world hunger if the crisis prevented him from buying the new Iphone?
Stop dreaming, you can't radically change the world, whatever your teachers/parents/mentors told you with a vote bulletin. What you can do is try and limit the damage done.

edit : what you can also do is that when the president you didn't vote for is elected is to write to him, to your congressman/senator, to create public associations, to protest, to buy correctly etc. to try and expose/disseminate your wills and beliefs around your country. You won't change much, but it's better thant just whining about Obacain. I don't know you so maybe you already do all of this, but then surely you realize it's much more effective than goint out once every 4 years to vote.

Commy

Kann wrote:

So you'd think that by electing Nader/Ron Paul/Kucinich, you'd have changed the whole world? That this election would have convinced your parliament to vote in favor of your presidents (extreme) positions? That american decisions could influence corporations policies at the other end of the world? That what your president would be saying, (logically without the support of the legislative power) would be taken into account by the Chinese? That they would stop what they're doing in Africa? That Nader or Ron Paul (I actually like Kucinich ) has the cure for malaria, aids and tuberculosis? That the common american (same could be said about europeans) would give a fuck about world hunger if the crisis prevented him from buying the new Iphone?
Stop dreaming, you can't radically change the world, whatever your teachers/parents/mentors told you with a vote bulletin. What you can do is try and limit the damage done.

We can't change it with a ballot but we can change it.

Governments rule with the population's consent.


So yeah, we can change the system. And we could change it tomorrow. Not with a ballot, I think if voting could change the system it would be illegal. No, we change it MLK style, with a thousand people in the street, with nobody in Wall street, with a general strike across the nation. We change it by refusing to run it.

Then they will have no choice but to listen.

Jeremy1012

If voting can't help, how about you try to enforce it with a ballot box and armalite strategy? Might work better.

dunkman

i watched them doing their debate thing last night.. they are a pair of master debaters i have to say .... and i cant watch John McCain without thinking about his arms not being able to move above his head... i just cant do it..

i just see his lips moving and then him shuffling... like Nosferatu after a stroke... over to someone in the audience and calling them all 'my friend'

inmytree

radiohead33 wrote:

I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...

um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...

Its Evolution Baby

inmytree wrote:

um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...

Exactly...

And at the end you mention the environment. If you did pay attention to Obama you know part of his big campaign goal is to create a green job work force to help both unemployment but the environment.

But your right hes going to rape our resources like McCain...

nuffingman

I'm bored rigid with it. It's like an NFL game. Should take an hour but goes on for about 3 or 4. In the UK it's on every night, every boring detail. It seems so long ago when Hilary and Obama were jousting. Surely it can be a shorter process than this.

This lengthy process can't be to ensure the right person is given the job. Look at the tosser you've had for 8 years.

Gonzo1977

radiohead33 wrote:

I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...

Okay...So sit back and do nothing.

Great Plan.

Your pessimistic aproach does nothing for this country.

Perhaps If you actually got off the couch and informed yourself about the platforms of both candidates you would realize at the very least that McCain and Obama are very very different and offer very very different options.

Ending the War/ Continuing the War
Alternative Energy/ Contiuned Oil Dependency
Pro Choice/Pro-Life

There are some very big differences. I feel this is the most important election of our generation and if you choose to sit it out then it's your shit.

Hope you like the smell.

It's such a lazy ass aproach just to sit back and bitch about how voting or the system of voting will not make a difference.

"What's the Point" "The world is Shit".

Your In-action is the reason for No action.

Do something about it. Don't just sit back and wine about how shitty things are and not even bother to get off your ass and vote or at the very least inform yourself on the issues and platforms of the candidates.

know1

I have decided that I'm going to vote now, but I'm not voting for either one of those two. My main purpose in voting is to vote against the Senators and Representatives who voted for the bailout plan. I warned them I would!

stupidcorporatewhore

know1 wrote:

I have decided that I'm going to vote now, but I'm not voting for either one of those two. My main purpose in voting is to vote against the Senators and Representatives who voted for the bailout plan. I warned them I would!

as long as you don't vote McCain, you have my full support.

DOSW

Everyone wants peace. But you can't just say "End the war, bring them all home RIGHT NOW!" That won't lead to peace. The sad truth is that there are still actions that need to take place over there, and if we don't, then the world will be much worse off than it is now.

know1

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

as long as you don't vote McCain, you have my full support.

In my state it doesn't matter. He's going to win in a landslide.

Did I mention that I think the electoral college is stupid?

JP2026766

I've also found it getting tiresome. I found this story pretty funny though.

http://qudecide.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/duh-duh-duh-its-mighty-mccain-and-the-obamanator/

fragileblake

Yeah, exactly the same:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-abortion.php

http://health-insurance-carriers.com/blog/health-care-john-mccain-vs-barack-obama/ (a tidbit: Obama - Additional 10 Million Enrollees, McCain -Loss of 20 million)

http://www.nea.org/newsreleases/2008/nr080417b.html

"A National Education Association analysis shows that McCain's idea for cutting spending means more than $35 billion in education cuts for the 2010 fiscal year. Broken down by state that means New Mexico loses out on $275 million that could be spent on education."

***

That took under 5 minutes of google searching to find. Tax issues may not seem that important to some but Obama's tax plan will do a lot of good for people trying to get by. Obama also supports expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit - to give you a personal story about that my Mother raised me on a very meager salary as a teacher's assistant and depended on that tax credit to pay her mortgage during the summer. These things may seem small compared to the war but there is a profound human cost to the inequalities in our tax code (not saying that story about my Mom is a perfect example of the tax code, but you know what I mean).

In terms of Education the two candidates offer some stark choices. Again, not an issue everyone is all that interested in but ideas like school vouchers, teacher performance pay, limiting ESL instruction - three things that McCain, National Republicans and Republicans in our state (Oregon, where the latter two of those things are on our ballot this fall as measures) - would be a complete disaster and really hurt the ability of educators to help students find opportunities.

Regarding candidates rushing to the political and cultural center when they run for president - I'm not sure what you expect when electoral votes are allotted state by state by whoever wins the popular vote of each individual state. Almost by definition a candidate needs to be a centrist, at least in their own party to win the popular vote in enough states to get 270 electoral votes. There has been a great degree of parity between liberals and conservatives for some time now - any republican or democrat would get around 45 percent of the vote in a a national election (even if the Republicans ran Tom Selleck or the Democrats Alec Baldwin or some shit like that) intrinsically the group of voters that don't fall into either party are the decisive factor in many states - typically they are also low-information voters (those who really pay attention to politics have usually made up their mind already). I should add that this totally sucks. I wish that Barack Obama was more like an Oregon Democrat (lots of real progressive dems in our state) but its unlikely that he'd be able to win a national election if he was. On a host of issues that are important to me: education, taxes, judicial appointments he is significantly different from John McCain which is enough for me to fill in a circle for him.

writersu

I know........me too. Under television's version of "martial law" I was forced to watch the two acting like 4 yr olds, "no he did it!", "no HE did it!"..........


waaaaaaaaaaaa,waaaaaaaaaaaa,waaaaaaaaaaaa,


GO TO YOUR ROOM!!!!

horribly boring.........don't know who I will vote for............

fragileblake

Wow "forced to watch"? Does your TV not have a remote with an off button or something?

writersu wrote:

I know........me too. Under television's version of "martial law" I was forced to watch the two acting like 4 yr olds, "no he did it!", "no HE did it!"..........

Gonzo1977

fragileblake wrote:

Yeah, exactly the same:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-abortion.php

http://health-insurance-carriers.com/blog/health-care-john-mccain-vs-barack-obama/ (a tidbit: Obama - Additional 10 Million Enrollees, McCain -Loss of 20 million)

http://www.nea.org/newsreleases/2008/nr080417b.html

"A National Education Association analysis shows that McCain's idea for cutting spending means more than $35 billion in education cuts for the 2010 fiscal year. Broken down by state that means New Mexico loses out on $275 million that could be spent on education."

***

That took under 5 minutes of google searching to find. Tax issues may not seem that important to some but Obama's tax plan will do a lot of good for people trying to get by. Obama also supports expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit - to give you a personal story about that my Mother raised me on a very meager salary as a teacher's assistant and depended on that tax credit to pay her mortgage during the summer. These things may seem small compared to the war but there is a profound human cost to the inequalities in our tax code (not saying that story about my Mom is a perfect example of the tax code, but you know what I mean).

In terms of Education the two candidates offer some stark choices. Again, not an issue everyone is all that interested in but ideas like school vouchers, teacher performance pay, limiting ESL instruction - three things that McCain, National Republicans and Republicans in our state (Oregon, where the latter two of those things are on our ballot this fall as measures) - would be a complete disaster and really hurt the ability of educators to help students find opportunities.

Regarding candidates rushing to the political and cultural center when they run for president - I'm not sure what you expect when electoral votes are allotted state by state by whoever wins the popular vote of each individual state. Almost by definition a candidate needs to be a centrist, at least in their own party to win the popular vote in enough states to get 270 electoral votes. There has been a great degree of parity between liberals and conservatives for some time now - any republican or democrat would get around 45 percent of the vote in a a national election (even if the Republicans ran Tom Selleck or the Democrats Alec Baldwin or some shit like that) intrinsically the group of voters that don't fall into either party are the decisive factor in many states - typically they are also low-information voters (those who really pay attention to politics have usually made up their mind already). I should add that this totally sucks. I wish that Barack Obama was more like an Oregon Democrat (lots of real progressive dems in our state) but its unlikely that he'd be able to win a national election if he was. On a host of issues that are important to me: education, taxes, judicial appointments he is significantly different from John McCain which is enough for me to fill in a circle for him.

Great Post.

Unfortunately, the people that make statements such as the OP would rather sit back and bitch how the system is broken and how both candidates are the same rather than actually do the obvious research to inform themselves otherwise.

It's such a lazy lame excuse and why we get dealt 8 years of Bush.

Speakers

inmytree wrote:

um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...

The OP sounds like Sarah Palin to me.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

i know nothing about the OP and dont care to follow anything he does or says. but i know he is a terrorist who hates our freedom.

Jeremy1012

MrSmith wrote:

i know nothing about the OP and dont care to follow anything he does or says. but i know he is a terrorist who hates our freedom.