This election bores me... Tweedle Dum vs TweedleDee

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    So you'd think that by electing Nader/Ron Paul/Kucinich, you'd have changed the whole world? That this election would have convinced your parliament to vote in favor of your presidents (extreme) positions? That american decisions could influence corporations policies at the other end of the world? That what your president would be saying, (logically without the support of the legislative power) would be taken into account by the Chinese? That they would stop what they're doing in Africa? That Nader or Ron Paul (I actually like Kucinich ;)) has the cure for malaria, aids and tuberculosis? That the common american (same could be said about europeans) would give a fuck about world hunger if the crisis prevented him from buying the new Iphone?
    Stop dreaming, you can't radically change the world, whatever your teachers/parents/mentors told you with a vote bulletin. What you can do is try and limit the damage done.

    edit : what you can also do is that when the president you didn't vote for is elected is to write to him, to your congressman/senator, to create public associations, to protest, to buy correctly etc. to try and expose/disseminate your wills and beliefs around your country. You won't change much, but it's better thant just whining about Obacain. I don't know you so maybe you already do all of this, but then surely you realize it's much more effective than goint out once every 4 years to vote.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Kann wrote:
    So you'd think that by electing Nader/Ron Paul/Kucinich, you'd have changed the whole world? That this election would have convinced your parliament to vote in favor of your presidents (extreme) positions? That american decisions could influence corporations policies at the other end of the world? That what your president would be saying, (logically without the support of the legislative power) would be taken into account by the Chinese? That they would stop what they're doing in Africa? That Nader or Ron Paul (I actually like Kucinich ;)) has the cure for malaria, aids and tuberculosis? That the common american (same could be said about europeans) would give a fuck about world hunger if the crisis prevented him from buying the new Iphone?
    Stop dreaming, you can't radically change the world, whatever your teachers/parents/mentors told you with a vote bulletin. What you can do is try and limit the damage done.
    We can't change it with a ballot but we can change it.

    Governments rule with the population's consent.


    So yeah, we can change the system. And we could change it tomorrow. Not with a ballot, I think if voting could change the system it would be illegal. No, we change it MLK style, with a thousand people in the street, with nobody in Wall street, with a general strike across the nation. We change it by refusing to run it.

    Then they will have no choice but to listen.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    If voting can't help, how about you try to enforce it with a ballot box and armalite strategy? Might work better.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    i watched them doing their debate thing last night.. they are a pair of master debaters i have to say .... and i cant watch John McCain without thinking about his arms not being able to move above his head... i just cant do it..

    i just see his lips moving and then him shuffling... like Nosferatu after a stroke... over to someone in the audience and calling them all 'my friend'
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

    Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

    Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

    In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

    Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...


    um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

    that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...
  • inmytree wrote:
    um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

    that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...

    Exactly...

    And at the end you mention the environment. If you did pay attention to Obama you know part of his big campaign goal is to create a green job work force to help both unemployment but the environment.

    But your right hes going to rape our resources like McCain...
    10/31/2000 (****)
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    6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
    10/1/2009 LA II (****)
    10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    I'm bored rigid with it. It's like an NFL game. Should take an hour but goes on for about 3 or 4. In the UK it's on every night, every boring detail. It seems so long ago when Hilary and Obama were jousting. Surely it can be a shorter process than this.

    This lengthy process can't be to ensure the right person is given the job. Look at the tosser you've had for 8 years.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

    Two sides of the same coin. Both parties are the same. Our brothers and sisters will fight in an unjust war under a Obama Biden or Mccain palin administration. Its just the way it is. Either its in Iraq or Afghanistan. Stop losses will continue. You really think you can convince soldiers who have come home and gone back to combat 4 or 5 times, to go and fight in Afghanistan? I think not. Its the same phoney immoral war. Just a different country and battlefield.

    Its almost comical how easy it is to say right on things. Ed or Bruce or Neil do it all the time. Yet these politicians, these ones running, continue to weasle, lie, and go straight down the middle.

    In the end, one party loses, one potential administration will not get to rule. But overall we all lose. We all lose out on a chance to end this war. A chance to get rid of NAFTA and the WTo. A chance to save the environment. A chance. Whats funny is everyone got suckered into a change.

    Nothing changes, if Obama or Mccain wins. Wars will still rage. The environment will still be nearing depletion. Meanwhile some people take action...

    Okay...So sit back and do nothing.

    Great Plan.

    Your pessimistic aproach does nothing for this country.

    Perhaps If you actually got off the couch and informed yourself about the platforms of both candidates you would realize at the very least that McCain and Obama are very very different and offer very very different options.

    Ending the War/ Continuing the War
    Alternative Energy/ Contiuned Oil Dependency
    Pro Choice/Pro-Life

    There are some very big differences. I feel this is the most important election of our generation and if you choose to sit it out then it's your shit.

    Hope you like the smell.

    It's such a lazy ass aproach just to sit back and bitch about how voting or the system of voting will not make a difference.

    "What's the Point" "The world is Shit".

    Your In-action is the reason for No action.

    Do something about it. Don't just sit back and wine about how shitty things are and not even bother to get off your ass and vote or at the very least inform yourself on the issues and platforms of the candidates.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I have decided that I'm going to vote now, but I'm not voting for either one of those two. My main purpose in voting is to vote against the Senators and Representatives who voted for the bailout plan. I warned them I would! ;)
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1 wrote:
    I have decided that I'm going to vote now, but I'm not voting for either one of those two. My main purpose in voting is to vote against the Senators and Representatives who voted for the bailout plan. I warned them I would! ;)

    as long as you don't vote McCain, you have my full support.
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    Everyone wants peace. But you can't just say "End the war, bring them all home RIGHT NOW!" That won't lead to peace. The sad truth is that there are still actions that need to take place over there, and if we don't, then the world will be much worse off than it is now.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    as long as you don't vote McCain, you have my full support.

    In my state it doesn't matter. He's going to win in a landslide.

    Did I mention that I think the electoral college is stupid?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • JP2026766JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    I've also found it getting tiresome. I found this story pretty funny though.

    http://qudecide.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/duh-duh-duh-its-mighty-mccain-and-the-obamanator/

    Mansfield II '08

    EV Solo Shows:

    NYC I
    NJPAC

    I. LOVE. YIELD.
  • Yeah, exactly the same:

    http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

    http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-abortion.php

    http://health-insurance-carriers.com/blog/health-care-john-mccain-vs-barack-obama/ (a tidbit: Obama - Additional 10 Million Enrollees, McCain -Loss of 20 million)

    http://www.nea.org/newsreleases/2008/nr080417b.html

    "A National Education Association analysis shows that McCain's idea for cutting spending means more than $35 billion in education cuts for the 2010 fiscal year. Broken down by state that means New Mexico loses out on $275 million that could be spent on education."

    ***

    That took under 5 minutes of google searching to find. Tax issues may not seem that important to some but Obama's tax plan will do a lot of good for people trying to get by. Obama also supports expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit - to give you a personal story about that my Mother raised me on a very meager salary as a teacher's assistant and depended on that tax credit to pay her mortgage during the summer. These things may seem small compared to the war but there is a profound human cost to the inequalities in our tax code (not saying that story about my Mom is a perfect example of the tax code, but you know what I mean).

    In terms of Education the two candidates offer some stark choices. Again, not an issue everyone is all that interested in but ideas like school vouchers, teacher performance pay, limiting ESL instruction - three things that McCain, National Republicans and Republicans in our state (Oregon, where the latter two of those things are on our ballot this fall as measures) - would be a complete disaster and really hurt the ability of educators to help students find opportunities.

    Regarding candidates rushing to the political and cultural center when they run for president - I'm not sure what you expect when electoral votes are allotted state by state by whoever wins the popular vote of each individual state. Almost by definition a candidate needs to be a centrist, at least in their own party to win the popular vote in enough states to get 270 electoral votes. There has been a great degree of parity between liberals and conservatives for some time now - any republican or democrat would get around 45 percent of the vote in a a national election (even if the Republicans ran Tom Selleck or the Democrats Alec Baldwin or some shit like that) intrinsically the group of voters that don't fall into either party are the decisive factor in many states - typically they are also low-information voters (those who really pay attention to politics have usually made up their mind already). I should add that this totally sucks. I wish that Barack Obama was more like an Oregon Democrat (lots of real progressive dems in our state) but its unlikely that he'd be able to win a national election if he was. On a host of issues that are important to me: education, taxes, judicial appointments he is significantly different from John McCain which is enough for me to fill in a circle for him.
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    I know........me too. Under television's version of "martial law" I was forced to watch the two acting like 4 yr olds, "no he did it!", "no HE did it!"..........


    waaaaaaaaaaaa,waaaaaaaaaaaa,waaaaaaaaaaaa,


    GO TO YOUR ROOM!!!!

    horribly boring.........don't know who I will vote for............
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • Wow "forced to watch"? Does your TV not have a remote with an off button or something?
    writersu wrote:
    I know........me too. Under television's version of "martial law" I was forced to watch the two acting like 4 yr olds, "no he did it!", "no HE did it!"..........
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Yeah, exactly the same:

    http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

    http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-abortion.php

    http://health-insurance-carriers.com/blog/health-care-john-mccain-vs-barack-obama/ (a tidbit: Obama - Additional 10 Million Enrollees, McCain -Loss of 20 million)

    http://www.nea.org/newsreleases/2008/nr080417b.html

    "A National Education Association analysis shows that McCain's idea for cutting spending means more than $35 billion in education cuts for the 2010 fiscal year. Broken down by state that means New Mexico loses out on $275 million that could be spent on education."

    ***

    That took under 5 minutes of google searching to find. Tax issues may not seem that important to some but Obama's tax plan will do a lot of good for people trying to get by. Obama also supports expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit - to give you a personal story about that my Mother raised me on a very meager salary as a teacher's assistant and depended on that tax credit to pay her mortgage during the summer. These things may seem small compared to the war but there is a profound human cost to the inequalities in our tax code (not saying that story about my Mom is a perfect example of the tax code, but you know what I mean).

    In terms of Education the two candidates offer some stark choices. Again, not an issue everyone is all that interested in but ideas like school vouchers, teacher performance pay, limiting ESL instruction - three things that McCain, National Republicans and Republicans in our state (Oregon, where the latter two of those things are on our ballot this fall as measures) - would be a complete disaster and really hurt the ability of educators to help students find opportunities.

    Regarding candidates rushing to the political and cultural center when they run for president - I'm not sure what you expect when electoral votes are allotted state by state by whoever wins the popular vote of each individual state. Almost by definition a candidate needs to be a centrist, at least in their own party to win the popular vote in enough states to get 270 electoral votes. There has been a great degree of parity between liberals and conservatives for some time now - any republican or democrat would get around 45 percent of the vote in a a national election (even if the Republicans ran Tom Selleck or the Democrats Alec Baldwin or some shit like that) intrinsically the group of voters that don't fall into either party are the decisive factor in many states - typically they are also low-information voters (those who really pay attention to politics have usually made up their mind already). I should add that this totally sucks. I wish that Barack Obama was more like an Oregon Democrat (lots of real progressive dems in our state) but its unlikely that he'd be able to win a national election if he was. On a host of issues that are important to me: education, taxes, judicial appointments he is significantly different from John McCain which is enough for me to fill in a circle for him.


    Great Post.

    Unfortunately, the people that make statements such as the OP would rather sit back and bitch how the system is broken and how both candidates are the same rather than actually do the obvious research to inform themselves otherwise.

    It's such a lazy lame excuse and why we get dealt 8 years of Bush.
  • SpeakersSpeakers Posts: 252
    inmytree wrote:
    um...so you've watched nothing, learned nothing...but know everything....

    that's impressive...or scary....depending on your perspective...

    The OP sounds like Sarah Palin to me.
  • i know nothing about the OP and dont care to follow anything he does or says. but i know he is a terrorist who hates our freedom.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    MrSmith wrote:
    i know nothing about the OP and dont care to follow anything he does or says. but i know he is a terrorist who hates our freedom.
    :D
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • MrSmith wrote:
    i know nothing about the OP and dont care to follow anything he does or says. but i know he is a terrorist who hates our freedom.


    :D

    nice.
    08 6/11 WPB 6/12 Tampa 6/24,25 MSG, 8/7 Ed @ Newark
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    00 8/24 Jones Bch 8/9,10 WPB
    1998 9/22,23 WPB 1996 10/7 Ft Laud 1994 3/28 Miami
  • Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Great Post.

    Unfortunately, the people that make statements such as the OP would rather sit back and bitch how the system is broken and how both candidates are the same rather than actually do the obvious research to inform themselves otherwise.

    It's such a lazy lame excuse and why we get dealt 8 years of Bush.


    we had coffee the other day and talked, right? Didnt we have classes together? I know you somehow, otherwise why would you presume to know me and my past and my activism or lack thereof, right?

    I have done my research. I dont have to justify what actions I have taken. From 2001-2006 or so, I lived breathed and slept activism. I contributed money and attended protests. I joined clubs and organizations, I spread the word. I read tons of books. Any protest locally i went to. I volunteered at local organizations. And I spent time, albeit brief time, trying out a new way of live, an alternative lifestyle, living in a commune-took a bus by myself first time outside of oregon, wash or cali, all the way to virginia, didnt know anyone in the state or the commune. So to suggest I am ignorant, not active and am some armchair revolutionary, is so beyond rude and asinine it almost doesnt even merit comment.

    Thats whats so funny about the system. To be pissed off about the 2 parties and not want to vote is THE LARGEST voting bloc in the u.s. 120 million people dont vote every four years. Thats half the population. The reasons for this are varied, but you can bet, the mundane, boring, sameness of every candidate, party and election plays a huge role.

    I stated what i wanted in a candidate. Obama and Mccain dont provide me with those. So what am I supposed to do, pal? I will never vote for the lesser of two evils. I dont live like that and never will. I vote my conscience, I live my conscience.

    My view of activism has changed. If you listen to Avocado you realize PJ's view changed as well. Ultimately the album concludes, to fight the world, to change the world, one must FIRST find onesself and to work on yourself. Inside Job is all about that. So are you willing to come out Gonzo and call Mike uninformed as well. Cause thats what he is suggesting in that song. He isnt advocating voting. He is advocating taking time to work on onesself.

    I love how everyone on this board acts like they know everyone else. It would be wise Gonzo in the future, to ask a question rather than throwing ridiculous insults.

    Where am I wrong Gonzo. You have cotton in your ears or are on LSD, if you think obama will end the war. He isnt a pacifist. He has stated he will invade afghanistan. He has said he will continue the war with vigor. How is voting for him any better than not voting at all?

    Two sides of the same coin.
  • Speakers wrote:
    The OP sounds like Sarah Palin to me.


    Who do you soundlike? How does a radical commie like myself who believes in bringing down the system sound like sarah palin? She hates people like me.

    Apparently this board is also a Obama hate free zone. Anyone who questions thy lord Obama is bashed.

    Very cool guys!
  • So your willing to suggest that american capitalism and expansionism differs under each parties administration?

    There has never been a president, who has questioned america's expansionism, or capitalism or the free market or imperialism. Every president has believed that oil is our divine right and that it needs to be obtained.

    What have the Dems done since 2006 to end the war? They have been in power since then. Pelosi and Reid have publicly laughed and scoffed at those who have demanded they call for bush's impeachment and an end to the war.

    So you tell me, how are the parties different?

    My position has always been, a radical deserves radical. So a radical Bush administration can ONLY be balanced out by a radical left wing presidency.

    Obama is many things. One thing he will NEVER be is radical.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    :o
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Obama is many things. One thing he will NEVER be is radical.

    Tell that to the right.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Tell that to the right.


    I will continue the war on terror with vigor-obama newsweek this year.


    If anything thats radical right propoganda that obama speaks.

    I am not an obamamaniac and never will be.
  • people only hear what they want to hear. I remember having many arguments with people, and merely quoting Kerry's statements that he would "enlarge the troop size in iraq" as opposed to ending the war.

    Not one of the kerry supporters I talk to would admit this fact. It was a live televised debate in which he uttered it, and people acted like I was suggesting the holocaust never happened or was some town crazy or something.

    The people who worship obama have the facts. They just ignore the pertinant ones.

    I saw Obama on CSpan in 2002 say he was going to be tough on North Korea. To me, this is significant, as it suggests just what I said above. Both parties are the same.

    How is a war in Afghanistan and North Korea and Syria under Obama any different than wars in the mideast under Bush or Mccain?

    The question is rhetorical as there is no difference. Wars are wars. Dead soldiers are dead no matter who controls the armed forces. Salmon are becoming extinct no matter who wins in Nov.

    I have been lied to, too many times to believe anything any politician says. They want our vote. But my vote has never been for sale. it has to be earned.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    we had coffee the other day and talked, right? Didnt we have classes together? I know you somehow, otherwise why would you presume to know me and my past and my activism or lack thereof, right?

    I have done my research. I dont have to justify what actions I have taken. From 2001-2006 or so, I lived breathed and slept activism. I contributed money and attended protests. I joined clubs and organizations, I spread the word. I read tons of books. Any protest locally i went to. I volunteered at local organizations. And I spent time, albeit brief time, trying out a new way of live, an alternative lifestyle, living in a commune-took a bus by myself first time outside of oregon, wash or cali, all the way to virginia, didnt know anyone in the state or the commune. So to suggest I am ignorant, not active and am some armchair revolutionary, is so beyond rude and asinine it almost doesnt even merit comment.

    Thats whats so funny about the system. To be pissed off about the 2 parties and not want to vote is THE LARGEST voting bloc in the u.s. 120 million people dont vote every four years. Thats half the population. The reasons for this are varied, but you can bet, the mundane, boring, sameness of every candidate, party and election plays a huge role.

    I stated what i wanted in a candidate. Obama and Mccain dont provide me with those. So what am I supposed to do, pal? I will never vote for the lesser of two evils. I dont live like that and never will. I vote my conscience, I live my conscience.

    My view of activism has changed. If you listen to Avocado you realize PJ's view changed as well. Ultimately the album concludes, to fight the world, to change the world, one must FIRST find onesself and to work on yourself. Inside Job is all about that. So are you willing to come out Gonzo and call Mike uninformed as well. Cause thats what he is suggesting in that song. He isnt advocating voting. He is advocating taking time to work on onesself.

    I love how everyone on this board acts like they know everyone else. It would be wise Gonzo in the future, to ask a question rather than throwing ridiculous insults.

    Where am I wrong Gonzo. You have cotton in your ears or are on LSD, if you think obama will end the war. He isnt a pacifist. He has stated he will invade afghanistan. He has said he will continue the war with vigor. How is voting for him any better than not voting at all?

    Two sides of the same coin.

    I don't get it...you rant and rave in this post yet you began with:
    you wrote:
    I havent viewed one major speech by obama, mccain, palin or biden. I havent seen any of the debates. I havent followed it. And frankly I could care less.

    you sound like your coin has two very conflicted sides....
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    we had coffee the other day and talked, right? Didnt we have classes together? I know you somehow, otherwise why would you presume to know me and my past and my activism or lack thereof, right?

    I have done my research. I dont have to justify what actions I have taken. From 2001-2006 or so, I lived breathed and slept activism. I contributed money and attended protests. I joined clubs and organizations, I spread the word. I read tons of books. Any protest locally i went to. I volunteered at local organizations. And I spent time, albeit brief time, trying out a new way of live, an alternative lifestyle, living in a commune-took a bus by myself first time outside of oregon, wash or cali, all the way to virginia, didnt know anyone in the state or the commune. So to suggest I am ignorant, not active and am some armchair revolutionary, is so beyond rude and asinine it almost doesnt even merit comment.

    Thats whats so funny about the system. To be pissed off about the 2 parties and not want to vote is THE LARGEST voting bloc in the u.s. 120 million people dont vote every four years. Thats half the population. The reasons for this are varied, but you can bet, the mundane, boring, sameness of every candidate, party and election plays a huge role.

    I stated what i wanted in a candidate. Obama and Mccain dont provide me with those. So what am I supposed to do, pal? I will never vote for the lesser of two evils. I dont live like that and never will. I vote my conscience, I live my conscience.

    My view of activism has changed. If you listen to Avocado you realize PJ's view changed as well. Ultimately the album concludes, to fight the world, to change the world, one must FIRST find onesself and to work on yourself. Inside Job is all about that. So are you willing to come out Gonzo and call Mike uninformed as well. Cause thats what he is suggesting in that song. He isnt advocating voting. He is advocating taking time to work on onesself.

    I love how everyone on this board acts like they know everyone else. It would be wise Gonzo in the future, to ask a question rather than throwing ridiculous insults.

    Where am I wrong Gonzo. You have cotton in your ears or are on LSD, if you think obama will end the war. He isnt a pacifist. He has stated he will invade afghanistan. He has said he will continue the war with vigor. How is voting for him any better than not voting at all?

    Two sides of the same coin.

    An activist that doesn't vote???? It's kind of like farting in the wind isn't it?

    I'm sorry I don't hear anything in "Inside Job" about not voting. Perhaps you can point me to a lyric in the song that I'm missing.

    I comend you for your activisim and your alternative lifestyle It takes alot of guts and self determination to live off the grid.

    That being said. I believe that you are completly mis-informed in your statement that Obama and McCain are the same person and that this election is irrelevant. These men have very very obvious differences.

    Iraq is a large difference.

    Obama wants out...McCain wants to stay there for 100 YEARS !!!

    You may not agree with Obama on alot of issues; Afghanistan being one of them and I'm right there with you. And believe me if and when he get's elected I'm going to do my very best to make sure my voice is heard on my disent towards that approach.

    You see the battle doesn't stop after election day and when our guy gets elected. It's then up to everyone who voted for him to take him to task. .

    In a perfect world all of our candidates for Presidency would stand for all the issues that we care about and not just some of them some of the time.

    But we don't live in a perfect world. We have to fight for that. We've got to win small battles before we can win that war.

    Revolutions take a LONG TIME. It's a very long and HARD road. They happen over winning small victories.

    This Election is one of those small battles that we've got to win if we are going to step in the right direction.

    How are we ever going to get to that Utopian world that you and your friends on the commune can so clearly see if we don't take the small steps to move in that direction??

    Obama and McCain represent two very distinct directions that this country could take in the next 4 years.

    If you don't participate in voting locally and at the Federal level

    YOU ARE NOT HELPING

    and You'll be waiting a lifetime for these changes or worst yet....You'll be dealt 8 YEARS OF BUSH (whom I'm sure you despise as much as me)

    Do you think Womens rights, African American rights, happend overnight? Do you think these battles were easy?

    They didn't happen by all the buildings we set fire to, riots we caused, and angry agressive revolutionary acts that radicals seem to think will make these changes come quickly and make evil go away.

    I got news for you...That only pisses the enemey off and scares the rest of the people away...It's only masturbation for the people that are already on your side. It doesn't win and sure as fuck don't change peoples minds.

    You can protest all you want, but if you don't vote and take part in the process that actually brings free-thinking leaders into power than you are not doing enough. Plain and simple

    You'll always be bitching about the world and wondering why it never changes.

    Do you think MLK didn't vote??

    You can bet your ass he voted.

    I'm sorry but I pitty the 120 million idiots out there that choose not to vote. Because of a misguided, ignorant distrust of politicians.

    There is no excuse for this.

    Ever.
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