Did McCain know beforehand of Bristol being pregnant?

unsung

meistereder wrote:

Right. Let me spell it out to whoever doesn't follow me. I thought this was pretty obvious, but here goes.

Abstinence means not having sex. The policy doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is the policy doesn't stop people, even minors, from having sex. Palin's daughter, a minor, is pregnant. Using deductive reasoning, I am going to reach a conclusion. She had sex.

To sum it all up, Palin advocates a policy that doesn't work, as is apparent from her own daughter.

Note that I made no mention of "slut." Palin's daughter is a human being. Human beings have sexual drives. Throwing that word out there in this discussion boggles my mind.

Take your condescending talk and stick it up your ass.

I asked you because it looked like you were implying that you had heard she had issues with this. There are other rumors going around that she was actually the mother to the child with DS, and your statement looked like another of those said rumors.

Is that spelled out for you?

digster

slightofjeff wrote:

I tend to agree with this.

My question is this: Isn't this what they are already teaching in public schools? It's been a while since sex ed class for me, admittedly. But I remember a health teacher giving us information on various forms of contraceptives, as well as abstinence.

If you are suggesting that the school nurse should hand out "the pill" to any girl who asks for it, I'm not sure I agree. I think, for children under 18, this should be up to the parents to decide. I'd want to know what my daughter was on, or not on. I'd consider anything less an invasion of my family's privacy.

As for the line of thinking of "well, they're just going to do it anyway" ... well, you're right *some* teenagers are going to have sex anyway. But there are things you can do to lessen the chances they will succumb to temptation. You can teach them the value of their virginity, and the value -- physically, emotionally, and spiritually -- of waiting until the time is right. That's how I was raised, and I was surrounded by likeminded people, so it was easier to avoid temptations until I was well into college ... and not a child anymore.

Depends on where you are. Many places have begun incorporating sex education regarding birth controls and condoms into their lessons but not everywhere. However, many places, including places you wouldn't expect, mention condoms but strongly stress abstinence to the point that it turns girls off of asking questions about condom use, birth control, etc. They feel stigmatized due to it. That's not okay.

If pro-life advocates really wanted to help, they'd advocate for extensive condom education and condom availability, in addition to available information about birth control, etc. Someone put it very well before; no matter how many people stress abstinence only, it does not work. It simply does not work. How many times do we have to go through this before the other side will admit the facts? And you know what? That's okay. I don't want teenage girls to be having sex before they reach a mature age, but I'm not too naive to stick my fingers in my ears and pretend it doesn't happen. It doesn't make them sluts. It makes them human. Human beings are attracted to other human beings and want to act on that attraction. It happens. Why pretend that it doesn't? If we stressed sex education that put the focus on ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies, if we taught THAT in our schools, do you realize how many abortions we could avoid? How could pro-life people be against this notion? It's inherently hypocritical.

I feel really bad for Bristol; she's being turned into a political football on both the left and right. I do wish her parents had thought this through before committing to the campaign; it doesn't take an idiot to understand that this kind of coverage, scrutiny and controversy would be coming down the line.

callen

I'm wondering if even Palin knew....I mean she didn't expect to get the vice Pres pick...she got what one day notice then was on the plane......may not have told her family....maybe.....then she does and her daughter goes..."OH SHIT!"

I'm kinda suprised they didn't go the immaculate conception route.....I mean...that would then have been a Miracle making McCain a fersher lock in.

meistereder

unsung wrote:

Take your condescending talk and stick it up your ass.

I asked you because it looked like you were implying that you had heard she had issues with this. There are other rumors going around that she was actually the mother to the child with DS, and your statement looked like another of those said rumors.

Is that spelled out for you?

Look back at my posts and tell me if I was condescending. I pointed out that abstinence is a failed policy, and that failure is perfectly illustrated by Palin's own daughter. You're the one who started talking about whether a 17-year-old would be considered a "slut" for being a human being and engaging in sexual intercourse. If you want to talk about the issues, I am all ears. But as soon as you threw out that loose cannon, I had to respond.

I'm not going to respond to your little attack. Stick with the issues and refrain from the junior high stuff.

_

slightofjeff wrote:

I tend to agree with this.

My question is this: Isn't this what they are already teaching in public schools? It's been a while since sex ed class for me, admittedly. But I remember a health teacher giving us information on various forms of contraceptives, as well as abstinence.

Sadly, the face of sex ed in public schools has changed dramatically since you and I were in school. Although there is NO federal funding dedicated to comprehensive sex education (which provides information about contraception as well as abstinence), the Bush administration has dramatically increased funding for abstinence-only sex ed. States & programs receiving this funding (which many rely on) are now forbidden by federal statute from teaching anything about contraception, including condoms, except to emphasize their failure rates.

There is much more that is disturbing about this subject - including how these programs have been proven uneffective, how it is required that they are taught to individuals aged 12-29, how they teach that sex outside of marriage is deviant from the social norm and children born out of wedlock are harmful to society, etc. - but I won't bore you with details unless you're interested.

slightofjeff wrote:

If you are suggesting that the school nurse should hand out "the pill" to any girl who asks for it, I'm not sure I agree. I think, for children under 18, this should be up to the parents to decide. I'd want to know what my daughter was on, or not on. I'd consider anything less an invasion of my family's privacy.

No, I wasn't suggesting that the school nurse should hand out the pill or condoms - but I actually do believe they should. I understand your feelings about being able to decide whether or not your daughter is on birth control. I mean, it is your right/obligation as a parent to protect her, right? But I agree with the major medical organizations (American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Pediatrics, American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists, Society for Adolescent Medicine, and American Public Health Association) who believe "The potential health risks to adolescents if they are unable to obtain reproductive health services are so compelling that legal barriers and deference to parental involvement should not stand in the way of needed health care for patients who request confidentiality."

Additionally, not only does federal regulation require that anyone receiving federal Title X family planning funds provide confidential family planning services to minors, half of the states have laws specifically allowing minors to consent to contraceptive services.

slightofjeff wrote:

As for the line of thinking of "well, they're just going to do it anyway" ... well, you're right *some* teenagers are going to have sex anyway. But there are things you can do to lessen the chances they will succumb to temptation. You can teach them the value of their virginity, and the value -- physically, emotionally, and spiritually -- of waiting until the time is right. That's how I was raised, and I was surrounded by likeminded people, so it was easier to avoid temptations until I was well into college ... and not a child anymore.

I agree that teaching young people the value of their virginity is great & valuable - and it's what the abstinence-only sex ed (which was founded in Texas) is all about - but I think they MUST be taught about contraception as well, especially considering that more than *some* teenagers have sex anyway. The CDC reports that 63% of high school seniors have had sex. (I don't know whether they asked them at the beginning or the end of their senior year. )

Jammin909

Sex is not bad.

Religious people are more close-minded and judgmental than the liberal hippies who judge you for taking a shower on a daily basis and driving a car.

fuck

unsung wrote:

Are you saying her daughter is a slut? Because it sure sounds like that is what you are saying.

I don't think he was saying that, but I'll go ahead and say she is.

mammasan

I don't think it matter if he knew or not because either way he will look bad. If he didn't know then it speaks volumns to how he is running his campaign and vetting his VP candidate. If he did know then it asks questions as to why they didn't disclose. They may have had very good reasons and intentions as to why, to respect the girls privacy most importantly, but intentions and reasons don't mean shit. What counts in the end is public perception. And right now I believe that the public perceives that they where trying to hide the info to save face.

catefrances

jesus h christ. do you have teenagers in your house? they dont always listen to your advice and they sure as hell dont even follow it a lot of the time. so what if her parents drilled abstinence into her brain. kids hear what they want to hear. and do what they want to do. theyre untouchable and indestructible. how do i know? cause i used to be one, as did we all. i used to have 2 in the house(one of which was actually teen mother) and ive got another 2 in waiting. are we to persecute the parents for the childs actions? kids fuck up. even the 'best' kids fuck up. tis as simple as that.

cincybearcat

whitepants wrote:

According to the news reports, Sarah was upfront with McCain about her daughter expecting. Why they allowed the nasty 'Days of Our Lives' soap opera drama gossip leaks run rampant before publicy admitting it, I'll never know.

If it were my daughter, I wouldn't have made any kind of statement yet either.

Those stupid rumors are what drove the statement coming out. Responsible journalism? Oxymoron.

cincybearcat

_outlaw wrote:

I don't think he was saying that, but I'll go ahead and say she is.

I wonder if she's an Isralei-apologist slut?

C'mon, you're btter than that...aren't you?

Also funny that you would call her names without any mention to the guy that helped her get into this situation. Says a lot.