Charles Manson
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rIhSoPAGm-Y
Charles manson should be freed. As evidenced by this youtube clip of the Helter Skelter movie.
I agree with 95 percent of what he is saying. We often hear about how Charles Manson was violent or that he and his family caused much sorrow, but its never in context. In 1969, we were losing 40 men a day in vietnam, thousands had been killed already, you had the tet offensive, the riots in Chicago, the majority of americans had turned against the war, I believe Cronkite had spoken out against Vietnam, the Black Panthers were in full force, the projects and ghettos regularly were up in flames, etc...
The killing of the Tates and Labiancas must be understood in the larger context of the violence of the 1960's.
His points still stand. We often talk about how charles manson is a killer. He never killed anyone. His family did. How could he be blamed for teaching the family how to kill, or to kill? These kids were brought to that point. I think the times had something to do with it. The war and the larger violence in society, the escalation of violence in the world and war all need to be discussed when talking about this case. It didnt happen in a vaccum.
Its so simple to suggest Manson "killed" because of the Beatles. In the movie, one key scene is never discussed but should be. Is this a possible motive? Who knows it was never discussed in court. Manson is brought to court, and the cops as him, "Charlie, why did you destroy those earth moving machines?". Charles says, "Thats the pigs ripping off nature man". I think the war and the destruction of the environment are better explanations for the violence than the Beatles are.
His reasoning still stands. Listen to the new tool record, new Ben Harper, new Pearl Jam, new Dylan, new Devendra Banhart, new audioslave, new Antiflag, new Propoghandi. All are speaking about the world. Charlie said, "the music speaks to you (the establishment) every day, but your too deaf dumb and blind to hear it". In the 60's they had dylan, uncle neil, the beatles etc... all speaking out, no one in the establishment listened. No one is listening, the establishment today isnt listening to the above bands I listed. They are indeed too deaf dumb and blind to hear the important message in World Wide Suicide and Army Reserve or the pleas inherent in Tool's Right in two.
My opinion from the start was that Manson should be freed and the real killers should be pursued. namely the ones who continue to send young men to die in a foreign land, all to increase profits of some oil executive. Manson isnt the real criminal, the real criminal is the one poisioning the water, clearcutting forests, poisioning streams, building dams, starting wars, brutalizing and murdering blacks and latinos in the projects.
The people killing in itaq, the soldiers killing iraqis didnt just wake up one day and miraculously learn how to murder their fellow humans. They were taught, taught by a violent society, where life is worth nothing.
Lets start going after real criminals, and start bringing our boys home.
More charles mansons will continue to appear as long as the war continues. The 4 or 5 school shootings earlier this month are a reflection of this. The returing soldier who murdered his wife, cut off her head and arms and stuck them in a boiling pot, and decided to eat the parts, is a reflection of this. This is all a result of the violent culture and this war. These kids were taught this, not by fellow kids, but by adults.
We all need to hear the music, before its too late. 2800 u.s. soldiers dead, thousands wounded, thousands without limbs, arms. 700,000 iraqis dead. BBC reports by 2050 ALL fish will be extinct. News reports show in a few years the changing from summer to fall will not result in leaves changing colors. Scientists suggests suggest that a net rise in temparature of 1 degree in the next 10 years will result in death of over 50 percent of the worlds population, and all of Mahattan will be underwater.
At what point do we rise up? At what point do we say to those in power, enough! Stop killing our planet?
The revolution will come...and I along with others will be tearing up concrete and planting food, and growing gardens on that day.
RISE!
Charles manson should be freed. As evidenced by this youtube clip of the Helter Skelter movie.
I agree with 95 percent of what he is saying. We often hear about how Charles Manson was violent or that he and his family caused much sorrow, but its never in context. In 1969, we were losing 40 men a day in vietnam, thousands had been killed already, you had the tet offensive, the riots in Chicago, the majority of americans had turned against the war, I believe Cronkite had spoken out against Vietnam, the Black Panthers were in full force, the projects and ghettos regularly were up in flames, etc...
The killing of the Tates and Labiancas must be understood in the larger context of the violence of the 1960's.
His points still stand. We often talk about how charles manson is a killer. He never killed anyone. His family did. How could he be blamed for teaching the family how to kill, or to kill? These kids were brought to that point. I think the times had something to do with it. The war and the larger violence in society, the escalation of violence in the world and war all need to be discussed when talking about this case. It didnt happen in a vaccum.
Its so simple to suggest Manson "killed" because of the Beatles. In the movie, one key scene is never discussed but should be. Is this a possible motive? Who knows it was never discussed in court. Manson is brought to court, and the cops as him, "Charlie, why did you destroy those earth moving machines?". Charles says, "Thats the pigs ripping off nature man". I think the war and the destruction of the environment are better explanations for the violence than the Beatles are.
His reasoning still stands. Listen to the new tool record, new Ben Harper, new Pearl Jam, new Dylan, new Devendra Banhart, new audioslave, new Antiflag, new Propoghandi. All are speaking about the world. Charlie said, "the music speaks to you (the establishment) every day, but your too deaf dumb and blind to hear it". In the 60's they had dylan, uncle neil, the beatles etc... all speaking out, no one in the establishment listened. No one is listening, the establishment today isnt listening to the above bands I listed. They are indeed too deaf dumb and blind to hear the important message in World Wide Suicide and Army Reserve or the pleas inherent in Tool's Right in two.
My opinion from the start was that Manson should be freed and the real killers should be pursued. namely the ones who continue to send young men to die in a foreign land, all to increase profits of some oil executive. Manson isnt the real criminal, the real criminal is the one poisioning the water, clearcutting forests, poisioning streams, building dams, starting wars, brutalizing and murdering blacks and latinos in the projects.
The people killing in itaq, the soldiers killing iraqis didnt just wake up one day and miraculously learn how to murder their fellow humans. They were taught, taught by a violent society, where life is worth nothing.
Lets start going after real criminals, and start bringing our boys home.
More charles mansons will continue to appear as long as the war continues. The 4 or 5 school shootings earlier this month are a reflection of this. The returing soldier who murdered his wife, cut off her head and arms and stuck them in a boiling pot, and decided to eat the parts, is a reflection of this. This is all a result of the violent culture and this war. These kids were taught this, not by fellow kids, but by adults.
We all need to hear the music, before its too late. 2800 u.s. soldiers dead, thousands wounded, thousands without limbs, arms. 700,000 iraqis dead. BBC reports by 2050 ALL fish will be extinct. News reports show in a few years the changing from summer to fall will not result in leaves changing colors. Scientists suggests suggest that a net rise in temparature of 1 degree in the next 10 years will result in death of over 50 percent of the worlds population, and all of Mahattan will be underwater.
At what point do we rise up? At what point do we say to those in power, enough! Stop killing our planet?
The revolution will come...and I along with others will be tearing up concrete and planting food, and growing gardens on that day.
RISE!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
You mean you've never operated a gas-powered motor?
Used a product that was made at a factory that polluted the air/water?
Purchased an acoustic guitar?
Used electricity that was produced by a dam?
If you've done any of those things, then you are just as guilty. That's like calling beef ranchers murderers while chomping away on a juicy steak.
And since when has it been legal to brutalize and murder blacks and latinos in the projects?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
That said, respond to his claims. Disreguarding the comment about bashing in peoples brains. Dont you think he has a point. The idea that he, a 30 year old man at the time, physicially taught a bunch of teens and runaways how to kill is absurd on its face. The idea of violence and killing was available to all. All the family had to do was turn on their tv's, at the time video footage of the vietnam war replayed nightly at dinner time. All they had to do was go to school, where their classrooms would shrink, after more and more kids started getting drafted.
And the claim that the music told people that the revoltion was ocurring the that the system needed to be brought down also was their. Listen to some political 60's music. Back then everything was seen as a political statement, Dylan's "its all over now baby blue" seemingly about a women, was seen as about the system, and america, america was the baby blue in the song.
Again, the people sending kids to die in iraq are of the same age, same color skin, same political opinions as those who sent kids to die in vietnam. The political people know what Pearl Jam was trying to express in the new record, or what tool was talking about in their new record, or what ben harper talks about.
Yet how many of the people sending kids to die in Iraq are LISTENING to the music. I would be none of them.
Charles Manson was wrong to "kill" people, but he was spot on in his analysis of the generation gap and society.
Again, I think his analysis is so obvious people who are regular, normal non killing humans like myself would be surprised we even agree with him.
Take Abu Gharaib. Its fairly obvious a bunch of hillbilly rural kids from Tennessee didnt just somehow know how to torture iraqis. They didnt just happen to know that in Muslim culture, in that culture Homosexuality is frowned upon and sexual modesty is important. So how did as I said a bunch of hillbilly 18 year olds know this.
Mansons response provides the answers. They were taught it, and shown it was acceptable.
If a government routinely uses napalm on a civilian population, the general public can glean the government cares nothing about human life. Same in Iraq currently. How are kids watching these acts supposed to react? What do they learn about our societies values? How do they see murder and violence? Do they see it as wrong and rare, or as normal and accepted.
Manson is correct in this clip, and again, more mansons will appear unless we as a society stop the madness, bring the boys home and start treating the world as humans.
Plus its generally accepted that police use excessive violence on latinos and blacks, ie Rodney King, Abner Louima, Tim Thomas, the list goes on....
And as Dave Chappelle points out in one of is skits, ever notice how a black guy ends up dead, the police are to blame, but the black guy always has crack sprinkled on him. That is a thinly vieled criticism of police tactics in the projects.
That one guy in 99 in NY was shot 41 times. All because his wallet looked like a gun. The police officers were found not guilty. I ask you, if those officers were black, and they were patrolling Beverly Hills, and they shot a wealthy white banker, because his wallet looked like a gun, what do you think would have happened?
I do admit I have done some things that you mentioned. I own an acoutic guitar. But as I said in my first post, I changed. When the revolution is here, I will be tearing up the ground that exists out my front door, and planting food and such.
The question remains from my first post, if things are as bad and bleak as scientists and others proclaim, see last couple paragraphs of first post, why is it any surprise we have school shootings? Why is it a surprise soldiers torture iraqis?
Here is another interview.. a little laterin life.. I think It shows how mad he is.. If you can't make sense of it...
And indeed the clip I provided was out of context in a way, in that he talked for over 3 hours that day, the transcripts you can google for it. But the clip from the movie isnt spliced. Those are actual Manson quotes. Indeed to provide a better context, read the entire transcipt on the net. But to say that the filmmaker was lying about the footage is in itself dishonest.
Indeed someone could make the same comment about the youtube video of his later statement at parole hearings. Those are out of context and sliced together too. They dont provide an entire statement, and they are deliberately eye catching. It is riveting viewing to see him act crazy, but I would guess he doesnt act that way the entire time he is in court. I am sure sometimes he sits quietly and is silent or is "normal".
Manson never made the environment his raison d’être as Che is doing here. Never, ever. I think to understand Che's post is to undertake an interesting propostion for some in anarchy. This proposition isn't anarchy. It's boredom.
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nice
No. Extreme Liberalism and Anarchy mix like oil and water. There is no relation.
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Cheguevara6
Your anarchist statement show such disease in your spirit I don't know where to begin, but by saying FUCK YOU and your little sick thoughts and all your sick friends and professors and book store clerks that agree with you.....not because I don't like creative thought, but because you are poisoned in your hearts and your spirits. WTF, you might as well have blood on your hands because you excuse murder, glamorize it, and make it excusable in the name of the earth, and make sick minds worthy of your worship. WTf?
I am not making this up....I grew up with Glenn, his mom is from El Paso, she was best friends in HS with Sharon Tate. His mom was pregnant with Glenn when Sharon was pregnant, and was murdered. She suffered, it is horrifiying what happened to her best friend, and I read the letters from LA.
They cut the baby out of her....you sick fuck. Cut the baby out of her body, out of her womb. You sick fuck. How could you excuse the hate and sickness and then attribute beauty to it, or intellegence. But you have, because you are for anarchy, not wisdom.
Sorry man, but you barked up the wrong tree by trying to make Manson a good guy...is this where you have to go to support your beliefs??? You need to change your path my friend.
Yeah, I think it was extreme liberals who sent innocent kids to die in iraq. I think it was liberals who lied us into war and said we would be greeted as liberators. I think it was liberals who exposed Joe Wilson's wife and covered it up. I think it was liberals who accepted bribes. Liberals who got us involved in an unwinnable war.
Newsflash bootlegger, Capitalism doesnt work either.
I think people who support Bush and support this war should be feared as much as terrorists.
Bush and people like you bootlegger are reasons why the war continues. They lie and lie, not focusing on the real issue, the war. The war that continues to kill people my age daily.
Yeah, keep telling yourself its liberals. Keep your eye off the real target. Its liberals who lie to our kids and undermine american values.
What the hell do you call the last few years under Bush?
some people...
Good reply. But what's this got to do with Charles Manson?
I don't think you are an anarchist, Che. I've been a lurker here for many a moon so I've read many of your posts. I think you are a true believer, and there isn't anything wrong with that.
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If France, Germany, Russia, and China were less concerned with money and more concerned with spreading democracy, then we would be in and out of Iraq. The Iran situation would be solved, as well as N. Korea. So I don't put all of the blame on Bush.
Also, it is Iraqis setting off car bombs, and road side bombs. It is Iraqis killing Americans and other Iraqis. If the insurgents would lay down their weapons, nobody would die. If the Americans laid down their weapons, even more would die. So again, I'm not going to put the blame in the wrong place. (It's a public relations battle, and the Democrats, Europeans, and terrorists are winning).
I believe you were right where the liberals were taking bribes (i.e. Louisiana, Nevada). You don't bribe people who have no power. The libs will take their bribes soon enough.
I couldn't care less about Joe Wilson and his wife.
I would think someone who follows Pearl Jam would be smart and intelligent, and would empathize with the many family members of those that were killed because of sick men like Manson. He was guilty. Nobody should spend a second thinking about him. But obviously you focus on his freedom. I wonder how long the family members will have to grieve their loss. Oh yeah, everyday for the rest of their lives. So, Manson can stay in jail for the rest of his life. Why should we let him out anyway? What purpose does that serve?
I try to have some fun.
It serves no purpose.
The innocence of Charlie Manson lies in the belief he espoused on his followers which was that if you are loved, you can do no wrong. It is a truth.
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I don't know that it is a truth. I can think of plenty of people that I know whose parents loved them, but for whatever reason they took a wrong path. Maybe I don't understand the theory, but it comes down to personal responsibility and choices, and whether you respond to those who love you or choose to follow the wrong path for selfish reasons (which are inherent in everyone regardless of how much love they have).
I think it's safe as a philosophical truth.
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Really, this is a dumb discussion. Would you give the same pass to David Koresh, Jim Jones, or any other person who controls his sheep, and asks them to commit crime in his beliefs???
How bout Osama, Abu Nidel, Hitler, the killers in Darfur, etc, etc.
"I love my followers, and they love me, we are one big family"...but kill the JEWS!!!
see my point?
No. You're not quoting actual quotes.
However, I think you would make a good anarchist.
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'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude
Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
I hope with the switch of power that these people are set free, but I have doubts. Remember Clinton had the opportunity and mulled possibly freeing Leonard peltier but didnt.
The fact is: Charles Manson didn't murder anyone. And if you believe Vincent Bugliosi's fantastical tale of mind-control and devil worship e.t.c, then I think that it's you that needs to do some serious thinking, not Cheguevara6.
and make him secretary of defense.........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
from my window to yours