When will the War in Iraq end?

musicismylife78

When will both sides of the aisle admit they were wrong and lied?

When will we see all troops come home from Iraq?

When will this war end?

3,000 are dead. The polls show the majority of americans are against the war

the majority favor withdrawal of some troops from iraq

the majority are against the "stay the course" mentality

the majority feel Bush has steered us wrong

the majority of iraqis want us to leave iraq

the majority of iraqis support attacks on u.s. troops


How long can a war that is unpopular domestically go on? How long can an unpopular president serve? How long can a war that is unpopular continue to kill and maime and wound?


When will we say we are sorry and bring our brothers and sisters home?

know1

The war is over. The occupation is ongoing.

musicismylife78

what really gets my goat is the fact that both sides refuse to admit they played and role in this crap. And both sides still seem to think we can win the war.

As I said before, how can we win a war that is this unpopular, both domestically and abroad? How do you bring democracy to the iraqis if the majority feel that attacks on our troops is justified?

The plain truth is the war cant be won

qtegirl

"In a breakfast meeting with American soldiers, he [new Sec. of Defense Gates] offered the following:

'[W]e need to make damn sure that the neighbors understand we're going to be here a long time, 'here' meaning the Persian Gulf area, not necessarily here in Iraq.' "

And:

"I think the message that we are sending to everyone, not just Iran, is that the United States is an enduring presence in this part of the world. We have been here for a long time. We will be here for a long time and everybody needs to remember that -- both our friends and those who might consider themselves our adversaries."

************

It doesn't matter how long the war in iraq lasts, the US is there to stay. It's never going to end unless something VERY dramatic happens (I'm not sure what that would be... economic collapse?). Remember, this is the Long War and Iraq is just a one theater in the global war on terrorrism.

josevolution

the fact of the matter is we have a president who is not human enough or man enough to admitt his mistakes he will go to his grave thinking he made the correct choices and now he will send more troops over there to keep on trying to will irag into democracy maybe just maybe the population in irag is just not ready for a democratic state they probably need to fight it out amongst themselves .........

given to grunge

Cheguevara6 wrote:

When will both sides of the aisle admit they were wrong and lied?

When will we see all troops come home from Iraq?

When will this war end?

3,000 are dead. The polls show the majority of americans are against the war

the majority favor withdrawal of some troops from iraq

the majority are against the "stay the course" mentality

the majority feel Bush has steered us wrong

the majority of iraqis want us to leave iraq

the majority of iraqis support attacks on u.s. troops


How long can a war that is unpopular domestically go on? How long can an unpopular president serve? How long can a war that is unpopular continue to kill and maime and wound?


When will we say we are sorry and bring our brothers and sisters home?

That will happen when Americans take all of their oil!
you sick bush idiot!

qtegirl

josevolution wrote:

the fact of the matter is we have a president who is not human enough or man enough to admitt his mistakes he will go to his grave thinking he made the correct choices and now he will send more troops over there to keep on trying to will irag into democracy maybe just maybe the population in irag is just not ready for a democratic state they probably need to fight it out amongst themselves .........

No, the fact of the matter is that the US wants to control the middle east, and unless they either get control or get destroyed, this situation is not going to end.

DCGARDEN

All's you need for your piece of mind my friend, is for the Iraqi leadership to publicly demand that the US leave Iraq. They will not do that, so we are not going anywhere. They will know when they are ready to defend themselves and their own fucking streets properly.

tybird

know1 wrote:

The war is over. The occupation is ongoing.

My point exactly..........then there is the question of civil war....is Iraq in a civil war or is it an uprising or simply sectarian violence???

tybird

chiefojibwa wrote:

tell that to the ongoing casualties of "occupation"

Nobody ever said that an occupation of a country went without any hazard....many times in history the occupation of a country was bloodier to both sides than the war/invasion.

josevolution

qtegirl wrote:

No, the fact of the matter is that the US wants to control the middle east, and unless they either get control or get destroyed, this situation is not going to end.

well then do you agree that bush is the one to blame for this whole mess no ??

tybird

chiefojibwa wrote:

yeah, occupation is hell.

if you can't beat 'em in open field combat..........bleed 'em to death in an occupation.......it worked for the Afghanis in both the 19th and 20th century. The Brits and the Russians won the war, but could not survive the occupation.

musicismylife78

bush definitely deserves blame, and if I was some kind of lawyer I would have him tried for crimes against humanity.

However lets not act like this is bush's war. Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Edwards, Obama etc... all supported the war in the beginning, and many continue to suggest that a troop surge in iraq is a wise thing to do.

If ALL dems had voted down the military authorization bill of 2002, if ALL of them voted against it we wouldnt be in the war. But just as they did after 9/11, dems were afraid of being called unpatriotic.

Its also the media's fault and medias war. If the NY TIMEs, LA TIMES, CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, had all done their jobs and actually researched some stuff, they could have come out prior to March 2003 and said, "we investigated and this WMD crap is a lie". They didnt do this and in fact supported the war.

It is also our fault as citizens. As Daniel Ellsberg once said about Vietnam and Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy, Truman's efforts to lie to the american people about the war, "its a tribute to the citizens of the u.s. that our leaders felt they had to lie to us, its not a tribute, and its a shame, that americans so easily bought and believed what was told to us"

josevolution

Cheguevara6 wrote:

bush definitely deserves blame, and if I was some kind of lawyer I would have him tried for crimes against humanity.

However lets not act like this is bush's war. Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Edwards, Obama etc... all supported the war in the beginning, and many continue to suggest that a troop surge in iraq is a wise thing to do.

If ALL dems had voted down the military authorization bill of 2002, if ALL of them voted against it we wouldnt be in the war. But just as they did after 9/11, dems were afraid of being called unpatriotic.

Its also the media's fault and medias war. If the NY TIMEs, LA TIMES, CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, had all done their jobs and actually researched some stuff, they could have come out prior to March 2003 and said, "we investigated and this WMD crap is a lie". They didnt do this and in fact supported the war.

It is also our fault as citizens. As Daniel Ellsberg once said about Vietnam and Nixon, LBJ, Kennedy, Truman's efforts to lie to the american people about the war, "its a tribute to the citizens of the u.s. that our leaders felt they had to lie to us, its not a tribute, and its a shame, that americans so easily bought and believed what was told to us"

all good points but all those goverment controlled media outlets are not free to just do their thing as we believe to be the case ...

qtegirl

josevolution wrote:

well then do you agree that bush is the one to blame for this whole mess no ??

I agree with Che's previous post. We are all to blame. The system that made this war possible and will make future wars possible is being enabled but the Congress and by default by us, because we elected them. Bush merely pulled the trigger.

What does it matter if the war in iraq ends (which was the original question)? There will be other wars to come, because we let them take our military to war. We let them authorize the money for war. We let them expand the Pentagon. We're even letting them militarize this country (read: the military will be used to respond to events like flu pandemic or natural catastrophies).

Maybe I'm being pessimistic today. But the problem, the whole problem, is not this war right now, it's the whole entire system: elected officials, the judiciary, the media, the people and the international community, who think it's OK to go into somebody else's country and bomb the hell out of it in order to control their resources.

Iraq ends, or maybe not, but that's not going to stop the pentagon from finding the next target: Iran, Syria, maybe even Venezuela.

josevolution

qtegirl wrote:

I agree with Che's previous post. We are all to blame. The system that made this war possible and will make future wars possible is being enabled but the Congress and by default by us, because we elected them. Bush merely pulled the trigger.

What does it matter if the war in iraq ends (which was the original question)? There will be other wars to come, because we let them take our military to war. We let them authorize the money for war. We let them expand the Pentagon. We're even letting them militarize this country (read: the military will be used to respond to events like flu pandemic or natural catastrophies).

Maybe I'm being pessimistic today. But the problem, the whole problem, is not this war right now, it's the whole entire system: elected officials, the judiciary, the media, the people and the international community, who think it's OK to go into somebody else's country and bomb the hell out of it in order to control their resources.

Iraq ends, or maybe not, but that's not going to stop the pentagon from finding the next target: Iran, Syria, maybe even Venezuela.

agreed it's a mess i have no answers just observations plus i must get some work done .......

musicismylife78

. But the problem, the whole problem, is not this war right now, it's the whole entire system: elected officials, the judiciary, the media, the people and the international community, who think it's OK to go into somebody else's country and bomb the hell out of it in order to control their resources.



amen to that. Thats why I dont identify as democrat. Clinton started wars in Kosovo and dropped a bomb on Sudan. Thats just as wrong as the war in Iraq.
I recommend people read John Bellemy Fosters excellent book Naked Imperialism, where he argues that the war in iraq isnt all that rare. Capitalism and imperialism have gone hand in hand since the beginning of capitalism itself. The only way to eradicate the bloodshed is to get rid of the entire system, the entire civilization. This will be made clear when the Dems support the 100 billion dollars more for Iraq that Bush is wanting.

Capitalism breeds racism, and imperialism. Its only once we get rid of capitalism that all that ends

know1

chiefojibwa wrote:

tell that to the ongoing casualties of "occupation"

People die in traffic accidents or other things all the time even when there's not a war or occupation. Death happens....to everyone.

qtegirl

know1 wrote:

People die in traffic accidents or other things all the time even when there's not a war or occupation. Death happens....to everyone.

Yes, death is inevitable.

But car accidents are, well, accidents.

An occupation is a deliberate act. There is one person (or group of persons) who made the decision to invade, shoot, bomb, etc.

If you do that with a car, it's called murder.

even flow?

The war will end...........When people from this board who think it is cool get called to the battle field. After they clean their pants and look for a way to Canada or Mexico and see the avenues have been cut off. Then and only then will the war end. Cowboys in couches who type on computers are only so tough.

know1

I am against the war, but I'm also against pulling out and letting chaos ensue and have more lives ended than if we stay. After all, I do not value the life of an American over that of an Iraqi or anyone else. If us leaving would cause more death than us staying, we should stay.