If Election Day 2008 was today who would get your vote?

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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    The people questioning this aren't just liberal, I've heard it from libertarians, too. I don't see it as a liberal issue at all.

    I'm not saying it's a liberal issue. I'm saying it's a predominantly liberal issue.

    Alex Jones himself is a staunch libertarian. You'd probably disagree with 95% of his views outside a 9/11 context, whereas I'd agree with them. It's not surprising in the least bit that we support the same candidate.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    My liberal friends are going to scorch me for this, but I would vote for Ron Paul.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm not saying it's a liberal issue. I'm saying it's a predominantly liberal issue.

    Alex Jones himself is a staunch libertarian. You'd probably disagree with 95% of his views outside a 9/11 context, whereas I'd agree with them. It's not surprising in the least bit that we support the same candidate.

    I don't think it's a political issue, period. I think it's simply questioning something when you feel you've been lied to...it's that simple. I already know Alex Jones is a libertarian...he has a nice part in my favorite movie 'Waking Life'.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Perhaps I can clear this up more simply.

    If Ron Paul starts running around talking about how 9/11 was an "inside job" using BBC clips, squibs, and comparisons between plane widths and holes in concrete, all the while showing a proclivity to dramatic music and innuendo, I won't be voting for him.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't think it's a political issue, period. I think it's simply questioning something when you feel you've been lied to...it's that simple. I already know Alex Jones is a libertarian...he has a nice part in my favorite movie 'Waking Life'.

    We've been over this a few times...you can't hide conculsions behind "questioning". This is why I despise Jones as journalist/scientist. He'll frame a "question" in a form wherein his conclusion takes precedence and pretend that he's "seeking answers".

    Jones and his disciples already have their answers. And they'll spend the next 40 years desperately looking for ways to ask the correct questions such that they're right.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't think it's a political issue, period. I think it's simply questioning something when you feel you've been lied to...it's that simple. I already know Alex Jones is a libertarian...he has a nice part in my favorite movie 'Waking Life'.

    he he, just watched a preview of your favorite movie - looks way cool.. I'll be watching it soon:)
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    We've been over this a few times...you can't hide conculsions behind "questioning". This is why I despise Jones as journalist/scientist. He'll frame a "question" in a form wherein his conclusion takes precedence and pretend that he's "seeking answers".

    Jones and his disciples already have their answers. And they'll spend the next 40 years desperately looking for ways to ask the correct questions such that they're right.


    I think because you disagree, you write off all of his points, and there have been plenty good ones, as already having his mind made up. Even if that is the case, it DOES NOT negate the questions and concerns he raises.

    Here's his bit from Waking Life....boy does he get into it, hehe. I just thought I'd post for anyone interested.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KjxyjfXwws
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Abuskedti wrote:
    he he, just watched a preview of your favorite movie - looks way cool.. I'll be watching it soon:)

    I know you'd like it, Abu. :) The rest of the movie isn't nearly as high strung as the 2 mins with Mr. Jones was. :D
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think because you disagree, you write off all of his points, and there have been plenty good ones, as already having his mind made up. Even if that is the case, it DOES NOT negate the questions and concerns he raises.

    Here's his bit from Waking Life....boy does he get into it, hehe. I just thought I'd post for anyone interested.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KjxyjfXwws

    I don't write off all his points. I actually agree with everything in the above video.

    What you don't see is how those points have motivated Jones to abandon reason. He's given into his own anger and hate and, in the process, helped hook the world on his own lie, figuring that will be better than the other lies they're hooked on otherwise.
  • KidCarnivore
    KidCarnivore Posts: 82
    farfromglorified wrote:
    The issues "more people are interested in" are using government to do their jobs and dirty work for them. This kind of precludes Ron Paul's principles and ideals. So, as I said, his campaign is doomed.
    You're right. I'm not critical of Paul, but I think he could have used his small platform at CPAC to appeal to some of the few remaining small-gov't Republicans.
    "All governments are murderers and liars."
    -Bill Hicks
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    KidCarnivore wrote:
    You're right. I'm not critical of Paul, but I think he could have used his small platform at CPAC to appeal to some of the few remaining small-gov't Republicans.

    I think Paul remains one of the last heroes of small-gov't Republicans. The problem isn't his, the problem is there aren't too many small-gov't Republicans left. Most of them sold out long ago.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I don't write off all his points. I actually agree with everything in the above video.

    I was talking about his points concerning 9/11. He's made good points, nonetheless
    farfromglorified wrote:
    What you don't see is how those points have motivated Jones to abandon reason. He's given into his own anger and hate and, in the process, helped hook the world on his own lie, figuring that will be better than the other lies they're hooked on otherwise.

    I guess it just depends on what you choose to swallow. None of us investigated the events ourselves. You can read the official account and go from there or you can read reports from people who disagree and think that account is unreasonable. Better yet, read them both and decide. Either way you're agruing from your own perpsective of who you chose to believe not firsthand accounts or your own independent investigation. You have no monopoly on reason, ffg.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    You have no monopoly on reason, ffg.

    Hehe...no I don't. But reason is an objective thing. In any disagreement wherein two positions exist and only one of them is correct, reason is only found in the correct one. The other is marked by a failure of reason.

    Suffice to say that the position that appeals to your emotions more than your mind is, while not necessarily wrong, always suspect.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...no I don't. But reason is an objective thing. In any disagreement wherein two positions exist and only one of them is correct, reason is only found in the correct one. The other is marked by a failure of reason.

    Suffice to say that the position that appeals to your emotions more than your mind is, while not necessarily wrong, always suspect.

    I'm not using my emotion on this, infact I'm pretty sure I've always argued from a logical stand point on this issue.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Rushlimbo
    Rushlimbo Posts: 832
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...no I don't. But reason is an objective thing. In any disagreement wherein two positions exist and only one of them is correct, reason is only found in the correct one. The other is marked by a failure of reason.

    Suffice to say that the position that appeals to your emotions more than your mind is, while not necessarily wrong, always suspect.

    Hehehe. Go buy some cookies.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm not using my emotion on this, infact I'm pretty sure I've always argued from a logical stand point on this issue.

    I'm not talking about you here, abook. I'm talking about the guy you're defending.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Hehehe. Go buy some cookies.

    No need to. I already have lots, as I'm sure you know based on your comment above. Do you want to tell me about reason too? ;)
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm not talking about you here, abook. I'm talking about the guy you're defending.


    I also see plenty of logic in AJ's reasoning. He has made lots of good points and so have many people on this board who have posed questions concerning 911 and the inside job theory.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I also see plenty of logic in AJ's reasoning. He has made lots of good points and so have many people on this board who have posed questions concerning 911 and the inside job theory.

    Fair enough, abook.

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