Port of Tacoma Protests

gue_barium

gue_barium wrote:

It was! lol.

As symbolic as it looks, and it is...

Still, spending a night in the can...for what?

Abookamongstthemany

jeffbr wrote:

I'm sure they're delusional enough to think that they've done something heroic and noble.

They have. Whatever mistakes were made along the way, they still stood up for what they believed in the face of possible danger.

gue_barium

jeffbr wrote:

Ha. I actually thought the same thing. I wanted to call the Cult Awareness Network watching all of the slow kids step up with their hands behind their backs to get cuffed and arrested.

I'm no fan of gov't in any form. I'm opposed to the war. But I sure wouldn't want to be associated with the anti-war movement with that sort of representation. I'm sure they're delusional enough to think that they've done something heroic and noble.

Well, what have you done lately?

jeffbr

gue_barium wrote:

Well, what have you done lately?

Stayed out of jail, made a living, provided for my family, bettered myself and my situation, voted 3rd party, volunteered in my community, gave to charity.

Abookamongstthemany

jeffbr wrote:

Stayed out of jail, made a living, provided for my family, bettered myself and my situation, voted 3rd party, volunteered in my community, gave to charity.

That's great! I wouldn't belittle what you choose to do to make a diffrence in your life.

gue_barium

jeffbr wrote:

Stayed out of jail, made a living, provided for my family, bettered myself and my situation, voted 3rd party, volunteered in my community, gave to charity.

I think you be lyin'.


Putting "stayed out of jail" at the top of your list gave you away.

That spells conformity and fear. It also isn't much of a feat, which kind of suits your argument.

"As long as I agree enough"
"I'll stay out of jail".
"Damned Government!"

jeffbr

gue_barium wrote:

I think you be lyin'.


Putting "stayed out of jail" at the top of your list gave you away.

That spells conformity and fear. It also isn't much of a feat, which kind of suits your argument.

"As long as I agree enough"
"I'll stay out of jail".
"Damned Government!"

I'll type slowly so you can hang with me. I put "stayed out of jail" first because it was relevant to the topic. I'm sure you with a little effort you'll be able to understand that. And understand this - I couldn't have done the other things I did without being smart enough not to walk up to a cop with my hands behind my back.

gue_barium

jeffbr wrote:

I'll type slowly so you can hang with me. I put "stayed out of jail" first because it was relevant to the topic. I'm sure you with a little effort you'll be able to understand that. And understand this - I couldn't have done the other things I did without being smart enough not to walk up to a cop with my hands behind my back.

Listen, you come and post belittling the efforts of those who disagree with the government. They're actually going out and willingly getting arrested for their disagreement with the government.
Here's what you don't understand: They don't want to get arrested. They choose the peaceable route to get the message across that those doing the imprisoning are those they disagree with, and they can get away with putting them in jail, but they are not strong enough to silence their protest of this government.

jeffbr

gue_barium wrote:

Here's what you don't understand: They don't want to get arrested.

Bullshit. They do want to get arrested. They walk up to the cops with their hands behind their backs. You don't want to get arrested, so you're doing what I'm doing right now, and typing on a computer. They want to get arrested thinking that they're "making a difference" so they find some guy with cuffs, walk up with their hands behind their backs, get cuffed, get put in the car, and flash the peace sign.

gue_barium

jeffbr wrote:

Bullshit. They do want to get arrested. They walk up to the cops with their hands behind their backs. You don't want to get arrested, so you're doing what I'm doing right now, and typing on a computer. They want to get arrested thinking that they're "making a difference" so they find some guy with cuffs, walk up with their hands behind their backs, get cuffed, get put in the car, and flash the peace sign.

You have a small brain. I'm sorry.

jeffbr

gue_barium wrote:

You have a small brain. I'm sorry.

Priceless from the guy who talks to himself on this board.

gue_barium

jeffbr wrote:

Priceless from the guy who talks to himself on this board.

heehee.

Okay, maybe that was uncalled for. I know you're not dumb.

Let me put it this way: you've chosen a limited perspective on the topic.

El_Kabong

jeffbr wrote:

Ha. I actually thought the same thing. I wanted to call the Cult Awareness Network watching all of the slow kids step up with their hands behind their backs to get cuffed and arrested.

I'm no fan of gov't in any form. I'm opposed to the war. But I sure wouldn't want to be associated with the anti-war movement with that sort of representation. I'm sure they're delusional enough to think that they've done something heroic and noble.

i think the reality of it is sometimes ppl are faced w/ the loss of their consitutional rights...some may choose to go home meek and obedient, while others choose to stand up for their rights, which they voiced by saying their rights were more important than being arrested. i guess it is symbolic to do, but it's still important and certianly more heroic and noble than giving in

gue_barium

El_Kabong wrote:

i think the reality of it is sometimes ppl are faced w/ the loss of their consitutional rights...some may choose to go home meek and obedient, while others choose to stand up for their rights, which they voiced by saying their rights were more important than being arrested. i guess it is symbolic to do, but it's still important and certianly more heroic and noble than giving in

Not to mention these people still have to go in front of a judge to face possible fines and more jail time. I heard many of those arrested over this past week will be arraigned on Thursday.

spiral out

El_Kabong wrote:

i think the reality of it is sometimes ppl are faced w/ the loss of their consitutional rights...some may choose to go home meek and obedient, while others choose to stand up for their rights, which they voiced by saying their rights were more important than being arrested. i guess it is symbolic to do, but it's still important and certianly more heroic and noble than giving in

Couldn't of put it better myself.

It's a shame more people don't stand up for what they believe in, instead of staying quiet and letting it happen.

gue_barium

Here is a good read that gives a lot of detail to what's going on with this story. Good news, too: charges were dropped for those arrested early Tuesday morning.

http://shiftshapers.gnn.tv/articles/2967/Port_Militarization_Resistance

Abookamongstthemany

gue_barium wrote:

Here is a good read that gives a lot of detail to what's going on with this story. Good news, too: charges were dropped for those arrested early Tuesday morning.

http://shiftshapers.gnn.tv/articles/2967/Port_Militarization_Resistance

That's great news!

gue_barium

Port of Tacoma anti-war protesters unbowed
Ship sailed, but fight goes on, they say

By AMY ROLPH
P-I REPORTER

Local anti-war protesters weren't able to stop a military ship from sailing to Iraq, but they still believe that almost two weeks of demonstrations at the Port of Tacoma served a purpose.

After all, if Western Washington residents tuned into the media at all during the past week, the protesters probably managed to get their message out.

"It was definitely worth it," said Mark Jensen, who helped coordinate the demonstrations, which included at least 100 people.

Tacoma police arrested 37 people in conjunction with the protests, including TJ Johnson, an Olympia city councilman. The protesters wanted to stop or delay the shipping to Iraq of Stryker brigade military vehicles from Fort Lewis.

"I have no other choice," Johnson said in a statement. "I have done everything else I can think of as a citizen, a city councilman and as a parent. This is for my son. This is for all the children and grandchildren."

Despite the protesters' efforts to interrupt the loading process, the 950-foot USNS Soderman departed with the equipment for the Middle East on Tuesday, port spokesman Mike Wasem said.

No other Stryker brigade loadings were expected in the immediate future, he said.

But the protesters were full of plans for the immediate future.

Wednesday evening, they held a vigil at the port, and today they plan to gather as mourners in conjunction with a port commissioners' meeting, Jensen said.



Monday is the fourth anniversary of the Iraq war, and many of the port protesters plan to participate in demonstrations in Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia this weekend.

"Many of us believe this recent protest will energize the movement," Jensen said.

But he and others dislike the treatment they received from police during their recent activism.

Police were constantly present at the port before the ship sailed. Earlier this week, they used tear gas and non-lethal bullets to control crowds. So far, protesters' verbal complaints of excessive force haven't been looked into.

"I don't know that there have been any formal complaints made yet," said Tacoma police Detective Brad Graham.

If that changes, the allegations would be investigated, he said.

Nadine Gulit, co-founder of the local group Operation Support Our Troops, said she's glad the ship sailed. She said she hopes the next time protesters want to make a political statement, they'll demonstrate in a way that won't jeopardize the safety of soldiers overseas.

"You're not going to stop them, and you're not going to bring them home, so why are you trying to stop the equipment they need to stay alive?" she asked.

The protesters contend the war is illegal because it violates Article Six of the Constitution, which binds the nation to abide by treaties.

"Many of us believe the war is illegal, even more believe the war is immoral, and still more believe the war is a disaster," Jensen said.

During the protest, Fort Lewis' newest Stryker brigade, the 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, loaded vehicles on the ship in preparation for the April departure of 4,000 soldiers for Iraq. The brigade is being sent to Iraq several months earlier than normal under President Bush's "surge" plan to escalate the war by more than 20,000 troops.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/307520_protest15.html

moeaholic

gue_barium wrote:

Port of Tacoma anti-war protesters unbowed
Ship sailed, but fight goes on, they say

By AMY ROLPH
P-I REPORTER

Local anti-war protesters weren't able to stop a military ship from sailing to Iraq, but they still believe that almost two weeks of demonstrations at the Port of Tacoma served a purpose.

After all, if Western Washington residents tuned into the media at all during the past week, the protesters probably managed to get their message out.

"It was definitely worth it," said Mark Jensen, who helped coordinate the demonstrations, which included at least 100 people.

Tacoma police arrested 37 people in conjunction with the protests, including TJ Johnson, an Olympia city councilman. The protesters wanted to stop or delay the shipping to Iraq of Stryker brigade military vehicles from Fort Lewis.

"I have no other choice," Johnson said in a statement. "I have done everything else I can think of as a citizen, a city councilman and as a parent. This is for my son. This is for all the children and grandchildren."

Despite the protesters' efforts to interrupt the loading process, the 950-foot USNS Soderman departed with the equipment for the Middle East on Tuesday, port spokesman Mike Wasem said.

No other Stryker brigade loadings were expected in the immediate future, he said.

But the protesters were full of plans for the immediate future.

Wednesday evening, they held a vigil at the port, and today they plan to gather as mourners in conjunction with a port commissioners' meeting, Jensen said.



Monday is the fourth anniversary of the Iraq war, and many of the port protesters plan to participate in demonstrations in Seattle, Tacoma and Olympia this weekend.

"Many of us believe this recent protest will energize the movement," Jensen said.

But he and others dislike the treatment they received from police during their recent activism.

Police were constantly present at the port before the ship sailed. Earlier this week, they used tear gas and non-lethal bullets to control crowds. So far, protesters' verbal complaints of excessive force haven't been looked into.

"I don't know that there have been any formal complaints made yet," said Tacoma police Detective Brad Graham.

If that changes, the allegations would be investigated, he said.

Nadine Gulit, co-founder of the local group Operation Support Our Troops, said she's glad the ship sailed. She said she hopes the next time protesters want to make a political statement, they'll demonstrate in a way that won't jeopardize the safety of soldiers overseas.

"You're not going to stop them, and you're not going to bring them home, so why are you trying to stop the equipment they need to stay alive?" she asked.

The protesters contend the war is illegal because it violates Article Six of the Constitution, which binds the nation to abide by treaties.

"Many of us believe the war is illegal, even more believe the war is immoral, and still more believe the war is a disaster," Jensen said.

During the protest, Fort Lewis' newest Stryker brigade, the 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, loaded vehicles on the ship in preparation for the April departure of 4,000 soldiers for Iraq. The brigade is being sent to Iraq several months earlier than normal under President Bush's "surge" plan to escalate the war by more than 20,000 troops.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/307520_protest15.html

why couldn't they just protest to bring all the troops home instead of trying to stop equipment going to those troops?

gue_barium

moeaholic wrote:

why couldn't they just protest to bring all the troops home instead of trying to stop equipment going to those troops?

They did, and they continue to.
Realistically, it wasn't about stopping the shipment, at least not unless 50,000 protesters showed up. It was simply a good staging point to get the message out about the amorality of the Iraq war, and Bush's greed and insanity.

Edit: This probably explains things better:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=51&ItemID=12322