Daylight savings time, global warming. Coincidence? I think not!

onelongsong

Royals32 wrote:

OK, so then I guess that's the end of that...

it's quite extensive and complete and i can't see spending the time to type it out here only to be attacked.

Royals32

I hear ya. It really is too bad that the "reasoned debate" part of the posting guidelines is ignored by so many people. This could have been fun and informative.

Oh well, off to argue about something else that I don't know a lot about but have an opinion on anyway...

onelongsong

Royals32 wrote:

I hear ya. It really is too bad that the "reasoned debate" part of the posting guidelines is ignored by so many people. This could have been fun and informative.

Oh well, off to argue about something else that I don't know a lot about but have an opinion on anyway...

if you're up for it; i'll do it. it'll have to be tomorrow when i have more time. it turns out the earth heals itself. it's really interesting. i'm willing to give it a go if a few reasonable people want to discuss it. you can't reason with an unreasonable person so we'll have to ignore a few posts.

melodious

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

You'll get worms, that's what! Or at least that's what my grandmother used to say whenever I tried to eat something while I had dirt under my fingernails. It was a traumatizing thought!




Don't stay in your car too long, we could use the comic relief around here.

how's about some flower power?????

http://www.thesensualimage.com/gallery/Top/default.htm

Royals32

onelongsong wrote:

if you're up for it; i'll do it. it'll have to be tomorrow when i have more time. it turns out the earth heals itself. it's really interesting. i'm willing to give it a go if a few reasonable people want to discuss it. you can't reason with an unreasonable person so we'll have to ignore a few posts.

The earth healing itself sounds pretty cool. I'm sure you can tell at this point that I don't want to fight, I just like to discuss and question the popular opinion. Go for it if you have the time. I think we may agree on more than I originally thought.

melodious

about how the earth will heal itself. I have heard that this global warming pattern occurs approximately every 3,000 years. It's part of expansion process...Unfortunately, before the last century, earth had a better chance becasue there werent as many carcinogenes and other contributing factors to interfere with processes.

lucylespian

ForestBrain wrote:

I don't believe it because the sun is just as necessary as water. Just as important as dirt.
Can dirt cause cancer? Can water cause cancer? No. It's a crock. Do you know what happens to a person if they never get sun?
Why don't freakin plants get ...uh...what would you call it? leaf cancer? Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's something else that is causing the skin cancer?

TRust me dude, I'm sitting in a skin cancer clinic, it's the sun !!

You are right though, that teh correct amout of sun is important. apparently 25% of babies being bornm in Australia have Vit D dediceincy, adn it is well described in women under wraps and folk in institutsions that never get taken out.

I haev my backgoround tan !!

onelongsong

Royals32 wrote:

The earth healing itself sounds pretty cool. I'm sure you can tell at this point that I don't want to fight, I just like to discuss and question the popular opinion. Go for it if you have the time. I think we may agree on more than I originally thought.

first; i want to say that if man is cutting down trees; he's interfering with the natural process of conversion of CO2 into O2. second; if man emitts ANY CO2 into the atmosphere; he is interfering with the natural process thus no man can say that humans don't have an impact and responsability.
in my model; the the meltwater is still cold; but when the ice cover melts and we can't reflect heat back into space; we will warm and so will the excess water. this will (some) evaporate into humidity. this puts us in a high humidity situation at first but the humidity will turn to clouds; thus leading into a rain pattern or era. the clouds will be able to replenish themselves as they rain so i see many years of constant rains. this will block the sun thus cooling the earth.
the problem here is that the ice cover controls the winds aloft and the landscape will change. where corn grew before; may be desert. i expect the midwest between the mississippi and the rockies to be under water. some desert areas will then support corn and other crops.
i know it sounds like something man will survive but i believe only a small percentage will survive. those who saw what was coming and prepare for it.
i'll take questions now.

onelongsong

melodious wrote:

about how the earth will heal itself. I have heard that this global warming pattern occurs approximately every 3,000 years. It's part of expansion process...Unfortunately, before the last century, earth had a better chance becasue there werent as many carcinogenes and other contributing factors to interfere with processes.

you are so right. this pattern is caused by the earths eliptical orbit around the sun. when our orbit moves closer to the sun; we have a warming cycle. the emergency here is that our orbit is moving into a cooling period. we should be getting cooler instead of warmer at this time.

who's_pearljam?

Royals32girl wrote:

OMG!!!!!!!! You're awesome! Can I be the first to buy one? Sorry, I don't mean to take away from the topic at hand.

You'll get the signed original copy!

Take away from the topic at hand? Haha,,, no problem. The topic was a joke anyway, and also, if you know me, I'm not a great topic sticker to-er anyway!

who's_pearljam?

onelongsong wrote:

daylight savings time also gave you an extra hour of darkness in the morning. the soltice is giving you longer hours of light; but don't fret. starting thursday; the hours of light per day will start decreasing. there's still 24 hours to a day. daylight savings time just trades an hour of darkness for an hour of light in the evenings. in the summer people tend to be outside enjoying the summer. we set the clocks back in fall so the sun rises earlier and begins to warm things sooner.
most people don't know what global warming really is. it was inproperly named and the general public doesn't have a clue.

Hmm.

My original post was a joke, but I think I have just scientifically proven my original post.

I just got back from a week in London. The time difference is 5 hours later than here in Wilmington, Delaware.
Ok, so that means that daylight is finished 5 hours earlier than here. THe sun goes down much earlier, thusly resulting in the proven fact that it's quite cool in London and now after arriving home, it's very hot!
I KNEW there was a reason I got an Enviromental Science degree!

Ok, maybe there just were a lot of pints involved over there and I'm jetlagged as hell, but it SEEMS like a cut and dried closed case!

Royals32

onelongsong wrote:

i'll take questions now.

OK, I'll bite. I have a few...


I heard that there are glaciers in Scandinavia, Northern Asia, South America and the less famous "other side" of the south pole that are expanding and will compensate for the melt water in the regions that are warming. Is this true?

Is it true that Siberia has had some of its coldest winters of all time in the last 20 years? If so, could that not gradually compensate for darkening melting areas of the planet. If it's snowy/icy there for longer and longer every year, won't that make up for the sun's rays that are being absorbed by the dark pools in the melty areas?

Doesn't the amount of CO2 constantly being released by the ever-turbulent oceans, active volcanos, decaying organic matter (the amazon, The African Jungles, farm land around the world), natural gas vents, and other naturally occurring ways dwarf the amount of CO2 released by humans?

Is it possible that as the sun heats up the earth due to increased solar activity, CO2 levels rise as a result, not the other way around?

Royals32

who's_pearljam? wrote:

Hmm.

My original post was a joke, but I think I have just scientifically proven my original post.

Oh, thank the sweet baby Jesus! There's no way someone older than 5 possibly thinks that. I once had a friend who insisted that when you were driving, no matter which way you were going, the front of the car was pointing north. Turns out his compass was broken. Also turns out he was too stupid to be my friend anymore.

Either way, you managed to spark up a pretty good discussion.

who's_pearljam?

lucylespian wrote:

TRust me dude, I'm sitting in a skin cancer clinic, it's the sun !!

You are right though, that teh correct amout of sun is important. apparently 25% of babies being bornm in Australia have Vit D dediceincy, adn it is well described in women under wraps and folk in institutsions that never get taken out.

I haev my backgoround tan !!

I was Stage IV Metastatic Melanoma, and am one of the only survivors of it for 5 years thanks to the Aussie docs in NewCastle. It had spread from skin to my liver, kidney and stomach and I had to go there to get treatment because of the lack of a fast track clinical trial program in the US. It cost me pretty much everything I owned because I had to pay for it myself because my insurance wouldn't pay for it. I got Autologous Vaccine Therapy and I've been clear for about 2 years now. haha,,, I'm healthy as hell now, too.

The major thing I learned when I was researcing sun and skin cancer and such was that, yes, there IS a hole in the ozone layer down there, but the major reasons that skin cancer is on such an upswing is that life and styles have changed.
One of the major reasons that more and more people have it is that it's stylish to HAVE a tan now whereas before the late 20's people used to cover up more in the sun and a lot of the reason for this was one person:

Coco Chanel! She came back from a vacation sunburnt and it was national fashion news, and suddenly it became the rage to GET a tan.
That coupled with the fact that more people travel and get outside on vacation than years past is the major cause.
That pasty white New York tan was the style, and a dark tan was considered something that only laborers would have.

who's_pearljam?

Royals32 wrote:

Oh, thank the sweet baby Jesus! There's no way someone older than 5 possibly thinks that. I once had a friend who insisted that when you were driving, no matter which way you were going, the front of the car was pointing north. Turns out his compass was broken. Also turns out he was too stupid to be my friend anymore.

Either way, you managed to spark up a pretty good discussion.

Thanks!

Haha,,, and now that I sat on a plane yesterday for 4 hours of delay, 7 hours flight and circling New York for a couple of hours due to a thunderstorm, I have been working on my new invention:

Crying baby spray! (Patent Pending)
Just spray the baby, Ok, 10+ babies last night on the plane, and Voila!!!,,, they go to sleep for a while!

onelongsong

Royals32 wrote:

OK, I'll bite. I have a few...


I heard that there are glaciers in Scandinavia, Northern Asia, South America and the less famous "other side" of the south pole that are expanding and will compensate for the melt water in the regions that are warming. Is this true?

Is it true that Siberia has had some of its coldest winters of all time in the last 20 years? If so, could that not gradually compensate for darkening melting areas of the planet. If it's snowy/icy there for longer and longer every year, won't that make up for the sun's rays that are being absorbed by the dark pools in the melty areas?

Doesn't the amount of CO2 constantly being released by the ever-turbulent oceans, active volcanos, decaying organic matter (the amazon, The African Jungles, farm land around the world), natural gas vents, and other naturally occurring ways dwarf the amount of CO2 released by humans?

Is it possible that as the sun heats up the earth due to increased solar activity, CO2 levels rise as a result, not the other way around?

there are no glaciers expanding. moving yes; getting thinner; yes. what looks like expansion is meltwater refreezing making it look bigger; but here's the problem: if you take 2 gallons of water. freeze one into a block and the other into a sheet. now put both outside. the sheet will melt several times faster then the block.
as to siberia; put ice in a cooler and close the top. go back in a bit and you'll see the ice is melting. but look what happened. the AIR got colder. when ice melts it "releases" the cold into the surrounding air.

CO2 isn't MADE by the sun. increased temperatures cause faster decomosition of organic matter which produces CO2 as a byproduct.

the CO2 released by "other than human" is compensated for in the balance of nature. that CO2 is inhaled by plants which expell O2. the problem is that we cut down the trees that filter the atmosphere and the earth can't compensate for that inbalance. add the CO2 emitted by human sources; and we have a greenhouse effect. we also filled the atmosphere with sulfur dioxide which when mixed with rain; becomes sulfuric acid. this acid rain is changing the PH of soil and killing the plants it rains on.

onelongsong

who's_pearljam? wrote:

I was Stage IV Metastatic Melanoma, and am one of the only survivors of it for 5 years thanks to the Aussie docs in NewCastle. It had spread from skin to my liver, kidney and stomach and I had to go there to get treatment because of the lack of a fast track clinical trial program in the US. It cost me pretty much everything I owned because I had to pay for it myself because my insurance wouldn't pay for it. I got Autologous Vaccine Therapy and I've been clear for about 2 years now. haha,,, I'm healthy as hell now, too.

The major thing I learned when I was researcing sun and skin cancer and such was that, yes, there IS a hole in the ozone layer down there, but the major reasons that skin cancer is on such an upswing is that life and styles have changed.
One of the major reasons that more and more people have it is that it's stylish to HAVE a tan now whereas before the late 20's people used to cover up more in the sun and a lot of the reason for this was one person:

Coco Chanel! She came back from a vacation sunburnt and it was national fashion news, and suddenly it became the rage to GET a tan.
That coupled with the fact that more people travel and get outside on vacation than years past is the major cause.
That pasty white New York tan was the style, and a dark tan was considered something that only laborers would have.

polio brought the biggest change. people thought sun caused polio and everyone stayed out of the sun. with the vaccine people went back into the sun with a vengence. getting all the sun they could after being kept in the shade for so long. the beaches became crowded and thus came the change of lifestyle.

Royals32girl

who's_pearljam? wrote:

You'll get the signed original copy!

Take away from the topic at hand? Haha,,, no problem. The topic was a joke anyway, and also, if you know me, I'm not a great topic sticker to-er anyway!

HAHAHAHA!!!!! Me neither.


Ok but you need to hurry, my shower cutain needs to be changed.

Royals32

onelongsong wrote:

there are no glaciers expanding. moving yes; getting thinner; yes. what looks like expansion is meltwater refreezing making it look bigger; but here's the problem: if you take 2 gallons of water. freeze one into a block and the other into a sheet. now put both outside. the sheet will melt several times faster then the block.
as to siberia; put ice in a cooler and close the top. go back in a bit and you'll see the ice is melting. but look what happened. the AIR got colder. when ice melts it "releases" the cold into the surrounding air.

CO2 isn't MADE by the sun. increased temperatures cause faster decomosition of organic matter which produces CO2 as a byproduct.

the CO2 released by "other than human" is compensated for in the balance of nature. that CO2 is inhaled by plants which expell O2. the problem is that we cut down the trees that filter the atmosphere and the earth can't compensate for that inbalance. add the CO2 emitted by human sources; and we have a greenhouse effect. we also filled the atmosphere with sulfur dioxide which when mixed with rain; becomes sulfuric acid. this acid rain is changing the PH of soil and killing the plants it rains on.

So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on whether or not glaciers are expanding. I should add that I'm not claiming that all glaciers are expanding. It is obvious that some are definitely melting away, but some are in fact growing, or better still, melting in some parts and growing in other parts. Maybe this has something to do with the shift in the earth's orbit and not humans.

In fact, these glaciers that are melting have been melting in some cases for the last 150 years. So before you point out that the melt has been faster in recent years, based on your 2 gallons in the cooler, what happens in the final stage of the block of ice melting? Doesn't it melt at a faster rate than it did at the start? Of course it does because it's sitting in "warm" water, even if the air is cooled. So the recent rapid increase in melting glaciers COULD be attributed to the fact that there is more and more fresh water surrounding those glaciers, and has been for the last 150 years.

As far as the sun creating CO2, I think you may have misunderstood my point. I'll spin your words around (and throw a few of my own in) if you don't mind. The SUN increases temperatures which in turn cause faster decomposition of organic matter, creating more and more CO2 as a byproduct.

As far as cutting down trees...you got me. There's nothing good that can come of that. Nothing good at all...except for maybe a nice guitar here and there. (By the way, my guitar is made by a Canadian company that uses fallen trees rather than cutting them down to make their guitars - Godin...brilliant!)


Just for the record once again...global warming is real...there IS a hole in the ozone layer, shit is happening and it's bad. I just am not able (read:willing?) to accept the scientific consensus that we are to blame. We can use extreme situations to support our arguments such as Hurricane Katrina and use that as a scase study to look at the damage caused by global warming. What happened in 2006? No hurricanes made landfall. Did global warming take the year off? Of course not. My point is that scientific consensus is being grossly misinterpereted as fact. Just because there's no other explanation, and the majority agrees that "factor X" is the cause, doesn't make it fact. It simply doesn't. So just because MOST of the people working on climate change THINK human activity is to blame, until there is formal proof, I don't buy it.

who's_pearljam?

So this thread went to a few interesting directions! Kind of like my brain!

One of the most significant turns in it is that there are two Royals32's :cool:

Onelongsong, I've not heard that polio link between sun and skin cancer/ melanoma and can't find anything on it.
I'm actually writing a book or article on how cancer affects the victims' lives, and the lives of all the people around them, so if you have any info, I'd appreciate it. I know that in general, people started heading to the beaches in the 1930's when tanning was more of a style than the pasty white New York tan. The East Coast beaches used to be pretty crowded then. The polio vaccine was invented in 1952.
I haven't found any links to this yet, so any info you have would be much appreciated. I keep getting links to polio and the Chicago sun newspaper!

Re: Global warming and greenhouse gas. Decomposition of matter puts out CO2 when it's being worked on by aerobic bacteria, but methane gas gets generated when anerobic bacteria and no oxygen is present. Methane is a MUCH more intense greenhouse gas.
Some is natural, from termites, general decomposition, etc. Humans help generate a lot of it, too! Cattle, landfills, coal mining etc. The landfills problems are starting to be addressed by capping them and using or burning off the gas, which would produce CO2, a less intense greenhouse gas.
It was interesting when I was doing research that the biggest cause of manmade methane is rice production because it's grown in water/ lowlands, and when the paddies aren't drained occasionally, methane (swamp gas) is generated.
I also fully agree that deforestation is a huge concern. We produce CO2 and methane at huge rates, and also lose the ability to scrub it out of the atmosphere when deforestation occurs.

I still maintain that turning the clocks back will help cool the earth!

And Abook!!! Don't forget to clean your gutters!