Are abortion clinic bombers terrorists?

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Comments

  • saveuplife wrote:
    I still think this is 100% semantics. I don't see 1 aspect of what she said to be incorrect. IMHO you are all nitpicking.

    It's what she didn't say. That's the point.

    Any reasonable person on either side of the abortion debate understands that terrorism is a politically motivated act of violence and destruction used as means of coercion.

    The fact that she couldn't say this because of her side in the debate is unsettling. If she doesn't understand the definition, that's even more unsettling. If she didn't have the personal constitution to say "yes, that is terrorism," if she knows it to be true is even worse.

    That's the problem.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    saveuplife wrote:
    I still think this is 100% semantics. I don't see 1 aspect of what she said to be incorrect. IMHO you are all nitpicking.
    How?! She said Ayers was 100% a terrorist. Why did she not say abortion clinic bombers are? How could she not? What was with all the huffing and puffing and reluctance to answer the question straight? I don't think she agrees with bombing the places but why the bloody hell didn't she say so?
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    PJ_Saluki wrote:
    No offense, but you're missing my point. If it has all the marks of terrorism, by definition it would be terrorism. If it's terrorism, then the perpetrators are terrorists. The followup question should have been: Governor, if you wouldn't label abortion clinic bombers as terrorists, what would you call them?"


    Let me ask you this, do you see any distinction between US Capitol, the Pentagon, the Harry S Truman building (houses the secretary of state) and an abortion clinic? I do. One is a place where the U.S. government houses employees... it's a U.S. government building.... one is a private building.

    I can see why this is tricky to equate the term terrorism to both, especially after they are followed sequentially. That said, like Palin, I think both acts are dispicable.

    It's a semantical argument.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    If the question of whether blowing up abortion clinics is terrorism or not is a question of 'semantics', then the question of whether William Ayers was a terrorist is equally semantics, and Palin has no right to be saying what she said about Obama.

    Both of these claims of course (that clinic bombers and that Ayers are not terrorists) are completely bull, of course.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    saveuplife wrote:
    Let me ask you this, do you see any distinction between US Capitol, the Pentagon, the Harry S Truman building (houses the secretary of state) and an abortion clinic? I do. One is a place where the U.S. government houses employees... it's a U.S. government building.... one is a private building.

    Than a Palestinian suicide bomber who blows up a bus in Jerusalem is not a terrorist? Then an Islamic fundamentalist who drives a plane into a building is not a terrorist since it's not a government building?
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    One thing that kills is, people use the word "semantics" pejoratively, as if words don't have meaning.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    saveuplife wrote:
    Let me ask you this, do you see any distinction between US Capitol, the Pentagon, the Harry S Truman building (houses the secretary of state) and an abortion clinic? I do. One is a place where the U.S. government houses employees... it's a U.S. government building.... one is a private building.

    I can see why this is tricky to equate the term terrorism to both, especially after they are followed sequentially. That said, like Palin, I think both acts are dispicable.

    It's a semantical argument.
    Sounds to me like it's you who has an odd grasp of semantics.

    Any use of non-military violence to force political reaction is terrorism.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    digster wrote:
    Than a Palestinian suicide bomber who blows up a bus in Jerusalem is not a terrorist? Then an Islamic fundamentalist who drives a plane into a building is not a terrorist since it's not a government building?

    Or a Klansman who burns a cross in a front yard? Target doesn't make a terrorist. The intent and the action makes a terrorist.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    PJ_Saluki wrote:
    Or a Klansman who burns a cross in a front yard? Target doesn't make a terrorist. The intent and the action makes a terrorist.

    I understand if saveuplife is trying to play Devil's advocate here, but there is absolutely no argument that this is not terrorism.
  • jimed14jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    saveuplife wrote:
    Let me ask you this, do you see any distinction between US Capitol, the Pentagon, the Harry S Truman building (houses the secretary of state) and an abortion clinic? I do. One is a place where the U.S. government houses employees... it's a U.S. government building.... one is a private building.

    I can see why this is tricky to equate the term terrorism to both, especially after they are followed sequentially. That said, like Palin, I think both acts are dispicable.

    It's a semantical argument.

    wow .. .you're really going to stick to this, aren't you?

    Why can't you, or her just say it ... it is TERRORISM!
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    digster wrote:
    I understand if saveuplife is trying to play Devil's advocate here, but there is absolutely no argument that this is not terrorism.

    he's not ... what he's doing is giving her the benefit of the doubt - which is understandable considering he supports her ...

    although she didn't flat out say they aren't terrorists - she also doesn't come close to calling them that either ... basically, she ducked the question and so, saveup is doing what most would - give her some slack ...
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    digster wrote:
    Than a Palestinian suicide bomber who blows up a bus in Jerusalem is not a terrorist? Then an Islamic fundamentalist who drives a plane into a building is not a terrorist since it's not a government building?


    Your right. I'm simply saying that from the sequence of events that led up to that question, I can see how she would say "I don't know if I'd use the word terrorism" but the act is awful.

    Like I said, the acts are not completely the same. The target is different.

    I'm only defending her because I think the term terrorism is loose and apt to be applied to everything. I think her point was the too acts are not equivalent. I don't see anything wrong with what she said. That's my take, you are entitled to your own.
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Sounds to me like it's you who has an odd grasp of semantics.

    Any use of non-military violence to force political reaction is terrorism.

    I don't even know if the military is exempt. Semantical argument could be made that some uses of military force such as the bombing runs over English and German cities in WWII were acts of terrorism.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    PJ_Saluki wrote:
    I don't even know if the military is exempt. Semantical argument could be made that some uses of military force such as the bombing runs over English and German cities in WWII were acts of terrorism.
    Yeah but generally in declared war these acts are considered legitimate, legally anyway, if not morally.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    he's not ... what he's doing is giving her the benefit of the doubt - which is understandable considering he supports her ...

    although she didn't flat out say they aren't terrorists - she also doesn't come close to calling them that either ... basically, she ducked the question and so, saveup is doing what most would - give her some slack ...


    Thank you.
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    polaris wrote:
    ... basically, she ducked the question and so, saveup is doing what most would - give her some slack ...

    The followup question should have been: "Governor, if you wouldn't label abortion clinic bombers as terrorists, what would you call them?"

    An interviewer doesn't have to stop a valid line of questioning just because a person being interviewed wants to duck the question. And I do think this is a valid line of questioning. I would think the same if that same interviewer went after Obama. I hate how pols get a pass from so many reporters. Be tough.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    saveuplife wrote:
    Your right. I'm simply saying that from the sequence of events that led up to that question, I can see how she would say "I don't know if I'd use the word terrorism" but the act is awful.

    Like I said, the acts are not completely the same. The target is different.

    No, the acts are completely the same. There is no "wiggle room" here.

    So, William Ayers is "maybe" a terrorist? A Palestinian suicide bomber is "maybe" a terrorist? What makes the latter's actions different than the actions of someone who bombs an abortion clinic? Neither are attacking government buildings, and both are attempting to achieve political ends.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    Thank you.

    well ... in all honesty ... it's like defending oj simpson in this regard ... his supporters will always give him the benefit of the doubt ... i see this to be the same with you and her ...
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    absolutely....what the fuck does Sarah Palin know anyway?
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    PJ_Saluki wrote:
    The followup question should have been: "Governor, if you wouldn't label abortion clinic bombers as terrorists, what would you call them?"

    An interviewer doesn't have to stop a valid line of questioning just because a person being interviewed wants to duck the question. And I do think this is a valid line of questioning. I would think the same if that same interviewer went after Obama. I hate how pols get a pass from so many reporters. Be tough.

    well ... you have the right basically using the media has a liberal bias BS - so, their hands are essentially tied ...

    the media (at least the major media outlets) are a joke ... if they were doing their job ... bush wouldn't be in power now and palin would still not be running for vp ...

    but that's just my take
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    well ... in all honesty ... it's like defending oj simpson in this regard ... his supporters will always give him the benefit of the doubt ... i see this to be the same with you and her ...


    Couldn't just take the thanks and go, huh? :P
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    Couldn't just take the thanks and go, huh? :P

    haha ... i just didn't couldn't have you thinking i was changing my mind on her ... :)
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    polaris wrote:
    well ... you have the right basically using the media has a liberal bias BS - so, their hands are essentially tied ...

    the media (at least the major media outlets) are a joke ... if they were doing their job ... bush wouldn't be in power now and palin would still not be running for vp ...

    but that's just my take

    I think you're right, especially as it relates to TV.
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    digster wrote:
    No, the acts are completely the same. There is no "wiggle room" here.

    No, they are in fact not the same. One is against a private building housing a a private staff... paid for privately. One is against a public building housing a public staff.... paid for by our tax money.

    Chillax, man. I just don't see a problem at all with what she said. No matter how long you type away at your computer.... you aren't going to change my mind.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    saveuplife wrote:
    No, they are in fact not the same. One is against a private building housing a a private staff... paid for privately. One is against a public building housing a public staff.... paid for by our tax money.

    Chillax, man. I just don't see a problem at all with what she said. No matter how long you type away at your computer.... you aren't going to change my mind.

    Rarely am I an asshole in this regard, but you are simply wrong on this one. Considering how well you articulate your positions usually, it's just kind of baffling that you take this position.
  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    saveuplife wrote:
    No, they are in fact not the same. One is against a private building housing a a private staff... paid for privately. One is against a public building housing a public staff.... paid for by our tax money.

    Chillax, man. I just don't see a problem at all with what she said. No matter how long you type away at your computer.... you aren't going to change my mind.
    People are entitled to disagree with you though, and to voice their disagreement. That's the point of a discussion board, particularly a political one :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    digster wrote:
    Rarely am I an asshole in this regard, but you are simply wrong on this one. Considering how well you articulate your positions usually, it's just kind of baffling that you take this position.


    I appreciate the noncompliment and compliment. ;)

    I'm losing my political argument mindset because I have beer on the brain. It's Friday. Friday's will still be great, even if Obama gets elected. It's just that I'll have less money for happy hour.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    YES, I'm sure someone gets terrified by there actions.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    saveuplife wrote:
    I appreciate the noncompliment and compliment. ;)

    I'm losing my political argument mindset because I have beer on the brain. It's Friday. Friday's will still be great, even if Obama gets elected. It's just that I'll have less money for happy hour.

    Well, see that's why I'm voting. Speaking as a part of the alcoholic voting bloc, I've had a shitty economy, wages not keeping up with inflations, etc. for quite a few years now. Most importantly, I've had little money for alcohol. That's change we need.
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