You sure have a closed mind about churches. There are plenty where people do not dress up and the buildings are very plain.
That's only because the parishners of those churches are from humbler backgrounds. When the funding is there and the demographics are just right, the true nature of religion makes itself known in all its materialistic splendor.
That's only because the parishners of those churches are from humbler backgrounds. When the funding is there and the demographics are just right, the true nature of religion makes itself known in all its materialistic splendor.
Yeah - you're all about the stereotypes, huh. You have no clue what you're talking about and apparently have a very simple mind.
My current church does have some members from humbler backgrounds, but it also runs the entire spectrum all the way up to a famous hollywood personality who is a millionaire many times over. The building is simple and the pastors wear jeans to preach.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yeah - you're all about the stereotypes, huh. You have no clue what you're talking about and apparently have a very simple mind.
My current church does have some members from humbler backgrounds, but it also runs the entire spectrum all the way up to a famous hollywood personality who is a millionaire many times over. The building is simple and the pastors wear jeans to preach.
I guess it's hard for you to understand norm vs. exception. too bad. for a moment there, i thought you had something intelligent to say.
I guess it's hard for you to understand norm vs. exception. too bad. for a moment there, i thought you had something intelligent to say.
No - it's you who doesn't understand that concept. Do you stereotype minorities like you do churches?
It's an interesting, diverse world out there. Perhaps you should get out and experience some of it instead of being parked in front of your computer spewing ignorance.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
No - it's you who doesn't understand that concept. Do you stereotype minorities like you do churches?
It's an interesting, diverse world out there. Perhaps you should get out and experience some of it instead of being parked in front of your computer spewing ignorance.
I don't use the example of a few minorities and then spread that determination across the whole of them. That's you what do, apparently. You expect me to believe that because you go to a church that has one rich guy yet still doesn't observe the traditional "fancy" aspect of church-going, I should discount the "fancy" aspect of church-going altogether.
Sorry, but you really need to open your eyes and see beyond what's inside your little world.
I don't use the example of a few minorities and then spread that determination across the whole of them. That's you what do, apparently. You expect me to believe that because you go to a church that has one rich guy yet still doesn't observe the traditional "fancy" aspect of church-going, I should discount the "fancy" aspect of church-going altogether.
Sorry, but you really need to open your eyes and see beyond what's inside your little world.
Hmmm...I recently moved and have casually been searching for a new church. I've been to numerous churches just like the one I described.
My old church doesn't have just one rich guy. I said it ran the spectrum from very, very poor to very, very rich.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Hmmm...I recently moved and have casually been searching for a new church. I've been to numerous churches just like the one I described.
My old church doesn't have just one rich guy. I said it ran the spectrum from very, very poor to very, very rich.
I'm just not buying this. I don't see why the East Coast would be that much different from the West Coast.
What you're saying basically is that on the east coast, people typically do not dress up for church on Sundays. And what you're also saying is that in affluent neighborhoods, the churches don't look like g.d. cathedrals.
I'm just not buying this. I don't see why the East Coast would be that much different from the West Coast.
What you're saying basically is that on the east coast, people typically do not dress up for church on Sundays. And what you're also saying is that in affluent neighborhoods, the churches don't look like g.d. cathedrals.
During my hitch hiking trip in the US, I went to a church in Vermont because the people of that church offered us a place to sleep viz. an apartment they rented. They were extremely generous and friendly. Their church used to be a building where some rich guy kept his animals. They fixed it up a bit, it certainly didn't look like a cathedral. And many of the churches I saw in New England were actually pretty modest especially compared to the ones we have in Europe.
During my hitch hiking trip in the US, I went to a church in Vermont because the people of that church offered us a place to sleep viz. an apartment they rented. They were extremely generous and friendly. Their church used to be a building where some rich guy kept his animals. They fixed it up a bit, it certainly didn't look like a cathedral. And many of the churches I saw in New England were actually pretty modest especially compared to the ones we have in Europe.
If those modest churches were in fact in affluent neighborhoods, then it's probably because they didn't want to be singled out for looking superficial. I bet if someone handed them the money and guaranteed them protection from criticism, they'd build a church that would put the swankiest las vegas hotel to shame.
I'm just not buying this. I don't see why the East Coast would be that much different from the West Coast.
What you're saying basically is that on the east coast, people typically do not dress up for church on Sundays. And what you're also saying is that in affluent neighborhoods, the churches don't look like g.d. cathedrals.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying churches are more diverse than you realize.
Heck, the pastor of my current church has something like 13 tattoos...
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
If those modest churches were in fact in affluent neighborhoods, then it's probably because they didn't want to be singled out for looking superficial. I bet if someone handed them the money and guaranteed them protection from criticism, they'd build a church that would put the swankiest las vegas hotel to shame.
If you're going with assumptions, you might just as well say they'd donate the money to the poor.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying churches are more diverse than you realize.
Heck, the pastor of my current church has something like 13 tattoos...
I'm not surprised about the tattoos. He's probably molesting young boys for all we know. I'm not saying that people with tattoos are more likely to become child molestors. I just think that all it takes to become a pastor is a desire to persecute heathens.
I understand that there are churches out there that do their best to observe the principles of humility, but I don't think those churches are representative of religion as a whole. Further, I think those churches were spawned from the fear of criticism of people such as myself who are keen to the many hypocritical aspects of religion in general. They had to make a choice between a fanciful place of worship or a place of worship where their elitist motives would at least be more easily concealed.
I'm not surprised about the tattoos. He's probably molesting young boys for all we know. I'm not saying that people with tattoos are more likely to become child molestors. I just think that all it takes to become a pastor is a desire to persecute heathens.
I understand that there are churches out there that do their best to observe the principles of humility, but I don't think those churches are representative of religion as a whole. Further, I think those churches were spawned from the fear of criticism of people such as myself who are keen to the many hypocritical aspects of religion in general. They had to make a choice between a fanciful place of worship or a place of worship where their elitist motives would at least be more easily concealed.
As I said before you have an extremely ignorant and immature version of churches. Plus, you seem to have some sort of agenda to persecute them since you brought them into a discussion about materialism for no apparent reason.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Most if not all religions are against materialism. YOu turn on the tv...and it litterally preaches materialism. By default...i'm going to have to say for the most part...TV teaches a doctrine that is against our general religious beliefs.
What do people think?
I would completely agree with you.
Greed in America is inescapable. We live incredibly comfortably and yet some can't even afford the heating bill.
The cultural degradation of our society has caused odd things to now become important. While education, family, and faith used to be the most important things, less desirable things have taken over.
I blame the 1960s.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
As I said before you have an extremely ignorant and immature version of churches. Plus, you seem to have some sort of agenda to persecute them since you brought them into a discussion about materialism for no apparent reason.
My view is just different from yours, and yours is based only on what you want to see. You call that ignorance and immature because it's in your religious tendencies to justify all differences with a perceived moral superiority on the part of the person who is affiliated with religion. Frankly, I'm just not surprised to hear insults from a person whose morality is defined by whatever the "supreme being" wants. Instead of interpreting the issue for what it is, you are capable of only perceiving it in terms of who is superior and who is inferior. I'm sorry you have been brainwashed beyond what can be repaired. It's one of the many faults of religion.
My view is just different from yours, and yours is based only on what you want to see. You call that ignorance and immature because it's in your religious tendencies to justify all differences with a perceived moral superiority on the part of the person who is affiliated with religion. Frankly, I'm just not surprised to hear insults from a person who morality is defined by whatever the "supreme being" wants. Instead of interpreting the issue for what it is, you are capable of only perceiving it in terms of who is superior and who is inferior. I'm sorry you have been brainwashed beyond what can be repaired. It's one of the many faults of religion.
<yawn>
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Greed in America is inescapable. We live incredibly comfortably and yet some can't even afford the heating bill.
The cultural degradation of our society has caused odd things to now become important. While education, family, and faith used to be the most important things, less desirable things have taken over.
I blame the 1960s.
Greed has been around since the beginning of time and has existed in every nation, society...etc. And this means it existed even with the influence of your "faith". Faith and humility have no connection and have never had one.
Why? What would you do about it? How would it be different in person?
If you find it insulting that it is obvious you have a very close minded view of religion, then that's your choice.
I think you know how it would be different in person. That's why you need to use those words while sitting behind a keyboard.
And in terms of my being closed -minded, you mean I don't see it your way. There's a difference between not seeing things your way and having a closed mind.
I think you know how it would be different in person. That's why you need to use those words while sitting behind a keyboard.
I think it would be no different on my end. I'd say what I think. I think you're implying that you would take a physical recourse to our differences, which doesn't surprise me. What's the penalty for threatening physical violence on this site?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I understand the difference, and I maintain that you have a closed mind.
Perhaps you'd like to tour the facility that my church runs that distributes goods to the poor using only volunteers.
Oh yeah....I forgot...we're the only church on the planet like that.
Of course it distributes food to the poor using volunteers. Without the perceived charitable nature of religion, parishners could not hold onto their status of being morally righteous. And they could not relish the opportunity to feel superior to those who are "needy".
Through the eyes of a parishner, the act of giving to the needy is merely an act of setting oneself apart, not an act of bringing the whole of society together.
It's still an Us. vs. Them point of view. It's a "We give and what do you do?" mentality that equates to righteous indignation. After all, what does "god" have to do with having empathy for the less fortunate? Why does a person need religious affiliation to organize these types of activities?
But, seeing as how you are so open-minded, I'm sure you've already asked yourself these questions.
I think it would be no different on my end. I'd say what I think. I think you're implying that you would take a physical recourse to our differences, which doesn't surprise me. What's the penalty for threatening physical violence on this site?
You jumped to a lot of conclusions there. I'm saying you use the anonymity of the internet in the same way that driver's use their cars to flip people the bird. All you know is that you stick your tongue out and speed away. Why would you say things on the internet that you would never say to a person's face? That's all I'm asking. Why carry on a double-identity? Be yourself as you would be were it not for your keyboard and computer screen.
You jumped to a lot of conclusions there. I'm saying you use the anonymity of the internet in the same way that driver's use their cars to flip people the bird. All you know is that you stick your tongue out and speed away. Why would you say things on the internet that you would never say to a person's face? That's all I'm asking. Why carry on a double-identity? Be yourself as you would be were it not for your keyboard and computer screen.
Nice try. If there was no chance for violence, how would it be any different to say it face to face?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Nice try. If there was no chance for violence, how would it be any different to say it face to face?
That's something you should really ask yourself. After all, you are the one who is carrying on an act. You see, the problem is that you are imagining some kind of threat being made. I'm just merely pointing out that you are not being yourself because you use the anonymity of the internet to aid you in creating your "internet persona". The reasons why you do this are really up to you to discover. But, I've already said this. I can explain it to you again if that's what you need.
That's something you should really ask yourself. After all, you are the one who is carrying on an act. You see, the problem is that you are imagining some kind of threat being made. I'm just merely pointing out that you are not being yourself because you use the anonymity of the internet to aid you in creating your "internet persona". The reasons why you do this are really up to you to discover. But, I've already said this. I can explain it to you again if that's what you need.
Funny. He's the one who's brainwashed, has a closed mind, carrying on an act, he's the one who uses an "internet persona"... You claim that his church is full of hypocrits and that all churches are like this...
And you tell him he's jumping to conclusions? You've judged him entirely based on the fact that he's a christian without even listening what he has to say. You claim that his church can not do real charity it only does this to point out that they are superior and the "needy" inferior.
I think the only one here who is jumping to conclusions and thinking in terms of superior and inferior, is you.
Funny. He's the one who's brainwashed, has a closed mind, carrying on an act, he's the one who uses an "internet persona"... You claim that his church is full of hypocrits and that all churches are like this...
And you tell him he's jumping to conclusions? You've judged him entirely based on the fact that he's a christian without even listening what he has to say. You claim that his church can not do real charity it only does this to point out that they are superior and the "needy" inferior.
I think the only one here who is jumping to conclusions and thinking in terms of superior and inferior, is you.
I asked him to tell me what god has to do with being charitable and why these people find themselves being charitable in connection with church activities instead of without church activities.
He didn't answer.
Anyway, I'll explain the whole thing to you because I'm bored. I said that with the right demographics, the churches are fancy, and so are the people on Sundays.
Well, come to california and take a look around. Come here and tell me these christians aren't snorting up their righteous indignation through big fat self-righteous nostrils.
And if he wants to tell me that the east coast is so much different, that's his perogative. But, I won't buy it. If that's what makes me closed-minded, so be it.
Morality doesn't exclude. Christianity does. I can always tell the devout religious folk by their tendency to take the moral highground without really being able to explain how they got there.
And let's not forget this time article from last month or so:
a full 61% believed that God wants people to be prosperous. And 31%--a far higher percentage than there are Pentecostals in America--agreed that if you give your money to God, God will bless you with more money.
I asked him to tell me what god has to do with being charitable and why these people find themselves being charitable in connection with church activities instead of without church activities.
He didn't answer.
God pretty much promotes charity. Why do you think these people aren't charitable without church activities? Do you follow them around constantly. Do they claim to know as much about your life as you do about theirs?
Anyway, I'll explain the whole thing you because I'm bored. I said that with the right demographics, the churches are fancy, and so are the people on Sundays.
So, he's like nu-uh because he knows like this one church and stuff. Also he knows of a few other churches. He didn't say those churches were in affluent neighborhoods. He just jumped to oh you're so closed minded.
Well, come to california and take a look around, man. Come here and tell me these christians aren't snorting up their righteous indignation through big fat self-righteous nostrils.
And if he wants to tell me that the east coast is so much different, that's his perogative. But, I won't buy it. If that's what makes me closed-minded, so be it.
Well, his side of the story is he knows lots of church that aren't like the ones you describes, so you're like nu-uh because you do know churches like that and stuff. And then you jumped to telling him how he's a hypocrit and all christians were and how all churches are.
Well, come to the east coast of the US and take a look around. Come to the east coast and tell him these Christians aren't good and honest people.
Comments
That's only because the parishners of those churches are from humbler backgrounds. When the funding is there and the demographics are just right, the true nature of religion makes itself known in all its materialistic splendor.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Yeah - you're all about the stereotypes, huh. You have no clue what you're talking about and apparently have a very simple mind.
My current church does have some members from humbler backgrounds, but it also runs the entire spectrum all the way up to a famous hollywood personality who is a millionaire many times over. The building is simple and the pastors wear jeans to preach.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I guess it's hard for you to understand norm vs. exception. too bad. for a moment there, i thought you had something intelligent to say.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
No - it's you who doesn't understand that concept. Do you stereotype minorities like you do churches?
It's an interesting, diverse world out there. Perhaps you should get out and experience some of it instead of being parked in front of your computer spewing ignorance.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I don't use the example of a few minorities and then spread that determination across the whole of them. That's you what do, apparently. You expect me to believe that because you go to a church that has one rich guy yet still doesn't observe the traditional "fancy" aspect of church-going, I should discount the "fancy" aspect of church-going altogether.
Sorry, but you really need to open your eyes and see beyond what's inside your little world.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Hmmm...I recently moved and have casually been searching for a new church. I've been to numerous churches just like the one I described.
My old church doesn't have just one rich guy. I said it ran the spectrum from very, very poor to very, very rich.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm just not buying this. I don't see why the East Coast would be that much different from the West Coast.
What you're saying basically is that on the east coast, people typically do not dress up for church on Sundays. And what you're also saying is that in affluent neighborhoods, the churches don't look like g.d. cathedrals.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
During my hitch hiking trip in the US, I went to a church in Vermont because the people of that church offered us a place to sleep viz. an apartment they rented. They were extremely generous and friendly. Their church used to be a building where some rich guy kept his animals. They fixed it up a bit, it certainly didn't look like a cathedral. And many of the churches I saw in New England were actually pretty modest especially compared to the ones we have in Europe.
naděje umírá poslední
If those modest churches were in fact in affluent neighborhoods, then it's probably because they didn't want to be singled out for looking superficial. I bet if someone handed them the money and guaranteed them protection from criticism, they'd build a church that would put the swankiest las vegas hotel to shame.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying churches are more diverse than you realize.
Heck, the pastor of my current church has something like 13 tattoos...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
If you're going with assumptions, you might just as well say they'd donate the money to the poor.
naděje umírá poslední
I'm not surprised about the tattoos. He's probably molesting young boys for all we know. I'm not saying that people with tattoos are more likely to become child molestors. I just think that all it takes to become a pastor is a desire to persecute heathens.
I understand that there are churches out there that do their best to observe the principles of humility, but I don't think those churches are representative of religion as a whole. Further, I think those churches were spawned from the fear of criticism of people such as myself who are keen to the many hypocritical aspects of religion in general. They had to make a choice between a fanciful place of worship or a place of worship where their elitist motives would at least be more easily concealed.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
As I said before you have an extremely ignorant and immature version of churches. Plus, you seem to have some sort of agenda to persecute them since you brought them into a discussion about materialism for no apparent reason.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
But that would require sponger to have an open mind....so don't hold your breath.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I would completely agree with you.
Greed in America is inescapable. We live incredibly comfortably and yet some can't even afford the heating bill.
The cultural degradation of our society has caused odd things to now become important. While education, family, and faith used to be the most important things, less desirable things have taken over.
I blame the 1960s.
-Enoch Powell
My view is just different from yours, and yours is based only on what you want to see. You call that ignorance and immature because it's in your religious tendencies to justify all differences with a perceived moral superiority on the part of the person who is affiliated with religion. Frankly, I'm just not surprised to hear insults from a person whose morality is defined by whatever the "supreme being" wants. Instead of interpreting the issue for what it is, you are capable of only perceiving it in terms of who is superior and who is inferior. I'm sorry you have been brainwashed beyond what can be repaired. It's one of the many faults of religion.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
<yawn>
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Wow. More insults. Classic. It's too bad you live on the other coast. I'd love to see you swing those words person to person.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Why? What would you do about it? How would it be different in person?
If you find it insulting that it is obvious you have a very close minded view of religion, then that's your choice.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Greed has been around since the beginning of time and has existed in every nation, society...etc. And this means it existed even with the influence of your "faith". Faith and humility have no connection and have never had one.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I think you know how it would be different in person. That's why you need to use those words while sitting behind a keyboard.
And in terms of my being closed -minded, you mean I don't see it your way. There's a difference between not seeing things your way and having a closed mind.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I understand the difference, and I maintain that you have a closed mind.
Perhaps you'd like to tour the facility that my church runs that distributes goods to the poor using only volunteers.
Oh yeah....I forgot...we're the only church on the planet like that.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think it would be no different on my end. I'd say what I think. I think you're implying that you would take a physical recourse to our differences, which doesn't surprise me. What's the penalty for threatening physical violence on this site?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Of course it distributes food to the poor using volunteers. Without the perceived charitable nature of religion, parishners could not hold onto their status of being morally righteous. And they could not relish the opportunity to feel superior to those who are "needy".
Through the eyes of a parishner, the act of giving to the needy is merely an act of setting oneself apart, not an act of bringing the whole of society together.
It's still an Us. vs. Them point of view. It's a "We give and what do you do?" mentality that equates to righteous indignation. After all, what does "god" have to do with having empathy for the less fortunate? Why does a person need religious affiliation to organize these types of activities?
But, seeing as how you are so open-minded, I'm sure you've already asked yourself these questions.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You jumped to a lot of conclusions there. I'm saying you use the anonymity of the internet in the same way that driver's use their cars to flip people the bird. All you know is that you stick your tongue out and speed away. Why would you say things on the internet that you would never say to a person's face? That's all I'm asking. Why carry on a double-identity? Be yourself as you would be were it not for your keyboard and computer screen.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Nice try. If there was no chance for violence, how would it be any different to say it face to face?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
That's something you should really ask yourself. After all, you are the one who is carrying on an act. You see, the problem is that you are imagining some kind of threat being made. I'm just merely pointing out that you are not being yourself because you use the anonymity of the internet to aid you in creating your "internet persona". The reasons why you do this are really up to you to discover. But, I've already said this. I can explain it to you again if that's what you need.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Funny. He's the one who's brainwashed, has a closed mind, carrying on an act, he's the one who uses an "internet persona"... You claim that his church is full of hypocrits and that all churches are like this...
And you tell him he's jumping to conclusions? You've judged him entirely based on the fact that he's a christian without even listening what he has to say. You claim that his church can not do real charity it only does this to point out that they are superior and the "needy" inferior.
I think the only one here who is jumping to conclusions and thinking in terms of superior and inferior, is you.
naděje umírá poslední
I asked him to tell me what god has to do with being charitable and why these people find themselves being charitable in connection with church activities instead of without church activities.
He didn't answer.
Anyway, I'll explain the whole thing to you because I'm bored. I said that with the right demographics, the churches are fancy, and so are the people on Sundays.
Well, come to california and take a look around. Come here and tell me these christians aren't snorting up their righteous indignation through big fat self-righteous nostrils.
And if he wants to tell me that the east coast is so much different, that's his perogative. But, I won't buy it. If that's what makes me closed-minded, so be it.
Morality doesn't exclude. Christianity does. I can always tell the devout religious folk by their tendency to take the moral highground without really being able to explain how they got there.
And let's not forget this time article from last month or so:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1533448-2,00.html
so, I guess know1 just happens to know the other 39% who don't think god wants them to be rich?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
God pretty much promotes charity. Why do you think these people aren't charitable without church activities? Do you follow them around constantly. Do they claim to know as much about your life as you do about theirs?
Well, his side of the story is he knows lots of church that aren't like the ones you describes, so you're like nu-uh because you do know churches like that and stuff. And then you jumped to telling him how he's a hypocrit and all christians were and how all churches are.
Well, come to the east coast of the US and take a look around. Come to the east coast and tell him these Christians aren't good and honest people.
...
naděje umírá poslední