Well, that's just about as subjective as it gets. I think that gets back to my simpler definition - that it just means that someone has more stuff than you do.
And that's not subjective?
This is what the Cambridge dictionary says:
materialism (MONEY) Show phonetics
noun
the belief that having money and possessions is the most important thing in life:
Webster:
2 : a preoccupation with or stress upon material rather than intellectual or spiritual things
But kids up to a certain age don't really have the money to buy material things.
I'm not denying that people can be influenced, but it is up to them personally how much power they give to that influence.
I agree with you.
A big part of growing up is taking responsibility for who you are and your actions. Part of this is no longer blaming others for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, if you don't like something don't you do it too.
Far too many people want to remain blamess and carry none of the onus of responsibility for their actions. It is always someone elses fault. Victims of bad parenting, bad teachers, victims of circumstances. Fuck that, round about 16 or so you shoul dbe looking in the mirror and saying "I am in full 100% control of what I do. I am not a victim of anything" or as Ed would say "I am mine".
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
A big part of growing up is taking responsibility for who you are and your actions. Part of this is no longer blaming others for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, if you don't like something don't you do it too.
Far too many people want to remain blamess and carry none of the onus of responsibility for their actions. It is always someone elses fault. Victims of bad parenting, bad teachers, victims of circumstances. Fuck that, round about 16 or so you shoul dbe looking in the mirror and saying "I am in full 100% control of what I do. I am not a victim of anything" or as Ed would say "I am mine".
True, but to be honest, I have never seen a somebody say 'it's my parents'/society's fault that I want all these things.'
But kids up to a certain age don't really have the money to buy material things.
I'm not denying that people can be influenced, but it is up to them personally how much power they give to that influence.
Small children may not go shopping on their own, but corporations are most definitely interested in "branding" the kids quite young so that by the time they're old enough to make their own buying decisions, they will "know" that they prefer Coke and Nike and Toyota to Pepsi and Adidas and Chevy. It's brainwashing on a mass scale, and it's almost impossible to insulate yourself from it. I know how hard it is, because I have to work at it ... I have Adblock on my browser, I don't watch tv, I refuse to look at billboards, the only magazines I read don't have ads. But still, there are ads on the news channels on my satellite radio, there are televisions in the doctor's office and even at the grocery store, and I'll occasionally catch myself glancing at the ads in the newspaper. And of course there are corporate logos plastered all over just about everything, so unless you're a hermit in the woods, you really can't miss those.
It requires a lot of effort to avoid media messages in our culture, and kids simply aren't equipped to do it. It's everywhere, even in school. I've had to argue with teachers some years because I insisted that my kids be allowed to leave class during Channel One time if they so chose, and some of the teachers felt that would be disruptive. Some teachers were supportive, and there were even a couple of dissidents who defied school board policy by refusing to turn on Channel One, but a few actually thought that I was being unreasonable because I didn't want my kids to be forced to sit through advertisements that insult their intelligence!
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
True, but to be honest, I have never seen a somebody say 'it's my parents'/society's fault that I want all these things.'
Nobody blames people for that?
No but they'll adopt patterns of behavior that may be materialistic without ever questioning why they behave that way. They may see their parents lavish lifestyle while not knowing their is an equal and offsetting charity donation being made. Not that they have bad intentions but that they've never taken the time to think about who they are, who they want to be and how that person they want to be behaves.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Small children may not go shopping on their own, but corporations are most definitely interested in "branding" the kids quite young so that by the time they're old enough to make their own buying decisions, they will "know" that they prefer Coke and Nike and Toyota to Pepsi and Adidas and Chevy. It's brainwashing on a mass scale, and it's almost impossible to insulate yourself from it. I know how hard it is, because I have to work at it ... I have Adblock on my browser, I don't watch tv, I refuse to look at billboards, the only magazines I read don't have ads. But still, there are ads on the news channels on my satellite radio, there are televisions in the doctor's office and even at the grocery store, and I'll occasionally catch myself glancing at the ads in the newspaper. And of course there are corporate logos plastered all over just about everything, so unless you're a hermit in the woods, you really can't miss those.
It requires a lot of effort to avoid media messages in our culture, and kids simply aren't equipped to do it. It's everywhere, even in school. I've had to argue with teachers some years because I insisted that my kids be allowed to leave class during Channel One time if they so chose, and some of the teachers felt that would be disruptive. Some teachers were supportive, and there were even a couple of dissidents who defied school board policy by refusing to turn on Channel One, but a few actually thought that I was being unreasonable because I didn't want my kids to be forced to sit through advertisements that insult their intelligence!
How do advertisements insult intelligence?
If you're an intelligent person you wont buy a product just because you see a "cool" advertisement. What insults intelligence is when certain people feel that others are too stupid to understand an advertisement.
If you're an intelligent person you wont buy a product just because you see a "cool" advertisement. What insults intelligence is when certain people feel that others are too stupid to understand an advertisement.
To be honest, I don't see ads often enough to give you any examples. The last time I saw television ads was when I was putting up Christmas decorations and my husband had a football game on. I don't remember a single thing about the ads, but I do remember after several of them asking my husband "How can you stand to listen to this shit? They're talking to people like they're idiots." Advertising seems to be targeted at a pretty low intelligence level. It gives me a headache.
It's not just about buying a particular product either, it's the whole mindset promoted by our media culture. Happiness is for sale! This is what a successful person looks like! If you don't think you're internalizing some of that, regardless of whether you buy a given product, you're fooling yourself.
By the way, I did not demand that my kids not be in the classroom during Channel One, only that they had the option to leave if they chose to. I don't think anyone of any age should be forced to sit through a sales pitch against their will, and I encourage my kids to make those decisions for themselves. When they were young we would occasionally watch tv and we'd discuss the ads and the techniques that the advertisers use to manipulate public opinion. I would tell them facts about a corporation's behavior and point out how it was in conflict with the image of themselves that they were trying to portray. We'd talk about stereotyping in the ads. I wish every parent would do this, but very few of them do.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
its more than that its a promotor of capitalism, which is far worse.
Turn on MTV's My Super Sweet 16th Birthday. Thats capitalism at its best.
The game show/reality show craze also promotes capitalism. I mean after all, who can complain about our system, our way of life, when anyone anywhere can win 1 million on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, or win thousands on Jeopardy, or Wheel of Fortune. Its all there to reinforce our way of life and to make us not question the way things are going.
Plus, it gets our minds off the real stuff going on. Instead of focusing on Iraq or violence, or any number of other pressing issues, we all can talk about the latest episode of Lost or what happened on Survivor last night.
TV is gross but its the whole culture that is wrong.
I agree with the chili peppers: throw away your television
I agree with the chili peppers: throw away your television
Can we throw away their albums instead?
lol I was banned for calling you a dumbass. So I guess you aren't a dumbass anymore? Maybe in my mind, but how would Kat know unless she's in my mind? Yeeeah... That's right. I'm going to have to get a little creative now.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
To be honest, I don't see ads often enough to give you any examples. The last time I saw television ads was when I was putting up Christmas decorations and my husband had a football game on. I don't remember a single thing about the ads, but I do remember after several of them asking my husband "How can you stand to listen to this shit? They're talking to people like they're idiots." Advertising seems to be targeted at a pretty low intelligence level. It gives me a headache.
I
Im not trying to start an argument because i see where your coming from, but shouldnt commercials be in laymans terms?
I've never watched a lot of television, and didn't even own one when my first daughter was young. She's never been interested in it, and she and her husband only watch DVDs on theirs.
My youngest was another story. She watched a couple of PBS shows from time to time, but my husband watches a lot of tv and it's amazing what kids pick up just from being in the room where it's on, even if they're not paying attention. My wake-up call came when she was three years old. I mentioned that I had a headache and she told me "Take some Advil! It's advanced medicine for pain!" I just about fell out of my chair, and we had rules regarding television after that.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I think there's a fine line between materialism and an appreciation for finer things.
And when assessing which side of this line a person is on, I use the cigar analogy. If you walk into a cigar bar, you'll find two kinds of cigar smokers: there are smokers who leave the labels on their cigars and those who remove them.
The smokers who leave the labels on their cigars are the materialistic tobacco enthusiasts. They just spent a wad of money on fine tobacco and they want people to know it.
But, then the question arises: What if the person just didn't feel like removing the label? Is there a practical reason for removing it?
Cigar labels have a tendency to slide up and down the cigar. This causes two problems: When the label slides into the gripping area of the cigar, its slick surface and loose fitting can cause gripping problems. When the label slides in the other direction, it can end up in the smoker's mouth. The cigar smoking experience is just easier and more enjoyable if the label is removed prior to lighting up. Also, if the smoker is someone who enjoys smoking the cigar down to the nub, it's better to remove the label so as not to smoke it along with the tobacco.
The exception is the person who hasn't yet experienced the inconveniences associated with cigar labels, and who probably thinks removing the label carries the same consequences as removing the tag from a mattress.
Then there's guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger who spend $20,000 for a box of Cuban Dunhills. That's just excessive. I don' think it's possible to taste $800 (25/box) in a stick of tobacco.
My point is - if that is the definition - how many people do you know of where possessions truly are THE MOST important thing in their lives.
Just because people have tons of junk (like all of us on this board) does not make materialistic by that definition.
Yes, I know very little people who consider their possessions the most important thing.
Anyway, I like the other two definitions more than the cambridge one because I doubt the are many people who consider their possessions more important than their family, for example.
I think materialist are the people who cannot imagine a life without all the luxuries. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having these things as you as you realize they are just things and your happiness doesn't depend on them.
So this is where I disagreed with that post that said we all partake in materialism because we have computers. I don't think that's true unless you truly believe that being not materialistic is not having anything like a computer, car or radio. You can have all these things and not be a materialist, in my opinion. To me, it's all about how much you value those things.
Yes, I know very little people who consider their possessions the most important thing.
Anyway, I like the other two definitions more than the cambridge one because I doubt the are many people who consider their possessions more important than their family, for example.
I think materialist are the people who cannot imagine a life without all the luxuries. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having these things as you as you realize they are just things and your happiness doesn't depend on them.
So this is where I disagreed with that post that said we all partake in materialism because we have computers. I don't think that's true unless you truly believe that being not materialistic is not having anything like a computer, car or radio. You can have all these things and not be a materialist, in my opinion. To me, it's all about how much you value those things.
But the vast majority of the people in the world do not have the luxuries all of us do, so I would think that they view all of us as very materialistic.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
But the vast majority of the people in the world do not have the luxuries all of us do, so I would think that they view all of us as very materialistic.
That's true. I guess you're right, it's all very relative. All I know is I could live without a lot of the things I have. I still live with my parents but when I move out I probably won't buy a all these new gadgets, I think it's a waste of money. But hey, as long as I live with my parents I might as well enjoy the luxuries they buy.
I can't wait until I move out and get my own place. It's weird I see young people getting bigger and bigger loans so they can afford a house, a car, new furniture, tv's ... People can't wait for anything, my parents always tell me when they built their house, they lived in one room for 6 months, didn't have hot water, no tv, not much furniture, they just read books, played games, talked... That's what I long for...
That's true. I guess you're right, it's all very relative. All I know is I could live without a lot of the things I have. I still live with my parents but when I move out I probably won't buy a all these new gadgets, I think it's a waste of money. But hey, as long as I live with my parents I might as well enjoy the luxuries they buy.
I can't wait until I move out and get my own place. It's weird I see young people getting bigger and bigger loans so they can afford a house, a car, new furniture, tv's ... People can't wait for anything, my parents always tell me when they built their house, they lived in one room for 6 months, didn't have hot water, no tv, not much furniture, they just read books, played games, talked... That's what I long for...
You have fun with that. Ill take the running water and electricity.
I wouldn't say it's just tv--it's all media that's promoting materialism. It's society here in the U.S. Keeping up with the Jones' has everything to do with materials, and not what really being happy is all about.
As far as religious beliefs, well, it depends on one's resilience, thinking for one's self, and not being easily influenced by society.
Pearl Jam is "media"--err,.. a medium.
i think i agree w/ you though: religion is how one lives,.. rather than how one appears.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Materialism = status
Status = filling holes in our sense of self-worth
filling holes in our sense of self-worth = mommy and daddy didn't approve of me
mommy and daddy didn't approve of me = jesus loves me
jesus loves me = religion
religion = grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday
grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday = gaining approval from others
gaining approval from others = status
status = materialism
"My friends all drive porsches. I must make amends" - Janis Joplin
That's true. I guess you're right, it's all very relative. All I know is I could live without a lot of the things I have. I still live with my parents but when I move out I probably won't buy a all these new gadgets, I think it's a waste of money. But hey, as long as I live with my parents I might as well enjoy the luxuries they buy.
I can't wait until I move out and get my own place. It's weird I see young people getting bigger and bigger loans so they can afford a house, a car, new furniture, tv's ... People can't wait for anything, my parents always tell me when they built their house, they lived in one room for 6 months, didn't have hot water, no tv, not much furniture, they just read books, played games, talked... That's what I long for...
Good for you. I really agree with that second paragraph. I'm debt free myself..except for my house which I have a lot of equity in. I have no student loan, no credit card debt, and a vehicle with over 100K miles that I own completely. Basically, if I can't pay for it in cash, I don't buy it.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Materialism = status
Status = filling holes in our sense of self-worth
filling holes in our sense of self-worth = mommy and daddy didn't approve of me
mommy and daddy didn't approve of me = jesus loves me
jesus loves me = religion
religion = grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday
grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday = gaining approval from others
gaining approval from others = status
status = materialism
"My friends all drive porsches. I must make amends" - Janis Joplin
You sure have a closed mind about churches. There are plenty where people do not dress up and the buildings are very plain.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
And how long will that last? Do you think your xbox will still give you happiness in twenty years?
naděje umírá poslední
And that's not subjective?
This is what the Cambridge dictionary says:
materialism (MONEY) Show phonetics
noun
the belief that having money and possessions is the most important thing in life:
Webster:
2 : a preoccupation with or stress upon material rather than intellectual or spiritual things
naděje umírá poslední
A big part of growing up is taking responsibility for who you are and your actions. Part of this is no longer blaming others for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, if you don't like something don't you do it too.
Far too many people want to remain blamess and carry none of the onus of responsibility for their actions. It is always someone elses fault. Victims of bad parenting, bad teachers, victims of circumstances. Fuck that, round about 16 or so you shoul dbe looking in the mirror and saying "I am in full 100% control of what I do. I am not a victim of anything" or as Ed would say "I am mine".
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
• noun 1 a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values
Oxford dictionary.
naděje umírá poslední
True, but to be honest, I have never seen a somebody say 'it's my parents'/society's fault that I want all these things.'
Nobody blames people for that?
naděje umírá poslední
It requires a lot of effort to avoid media messages in our culture, and kids simply aren't equipped to do it. It's everywhere, even in school. I've had to argue with teachers some years because I insisted that my kids be allowed to leave class during Channel One time if they so chose, and some of the teachers felt that would be disruptive. Some teachers were supportive, and there were even a couple of dissidents who defied school board policy by refusing to turn on Channel One, but a few actually thought that I was being unreasonable because I didn't want my kids to be forced to sit through advertisements that insult their intelligence!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
People can have tons of stuff without thinking it is the most important thing in life.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
How do advertisements insult intelligence?
If you're an intelligent person you wont buy a product just because you see a "cool" advertisement. What insults intelligence is when certain people feel that others are too stupid to understand an advertisement.
It's not just about buying a particular product either, it's the whole mindset promoted by our media culture. Happiness is for sale! This is what a successful person looks like! If you don't think you're internalizing some of that, regardless of whether you buy a given product, you're fooling yourself.
By the way, I did not demand that my kids not be in the classroom during Channel One, only that they had the option to leave if they chose to. I don't think anyone of any age should be forced to sit through a sales pitch against their will, and I encourage my kids to make those decisions for themselves. When they were young we would occasionally watch tv and we'd discuss the ads and the techniques that the advertisers use to manipulate public opinion. I would tell them facts about a corporation's behavior and point out how it was in conflict with the image of themselves that they were trying to portray. We'd talk about stereotyping in the ads. I wish every parent would do this, but very few of them do.
Turn on MTV's My Super Sweet 16th Birthday. Thats capitalism at its best.
The game show/reality show craze also promotes capitalism. I mean after all, who can complain about our system, our way of life, when anyone anywhere can win 1 million on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, or win thousands on Jeopardy, or Wheel of Fortune. Its all there to reinforce our way of life and to make us not question the way things are going.
Plus, it gets our minds off the real stuff going on. Instead of focusing on Iraq or violence, or any number of other pressing issues, we all can talk about the latest episode of Lost or what happened on Survivor last night.
TV is gross but its the whole culture that is wrong.
I agree with the chili peppers: throw away your television
Can we throw away their albums instead?
lol I was banned for calling you a dumbass. So I guess you aren't a dumbass anymore? Maybe in my mind, but how would Kat know unless she's in my mind? Yeeeah... That's right. I'm going to have to get a little creative now.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
After watching this show if you don't think kids are influenced by what they see from the media well, I like to move to your fantasy world. :rolleyes:
Im not trying to start an argument because i see where your coming from, but shouldnt commercials be in laymans terms?
Try reading something like this, and then you'll understand. Advertisers prey on the young and easily influenced, ie children. They don't know enough not to believe everything they see.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068487055X/ref=pd_sim_b_5/103-5648826-4565468?ie=UTF8
Who cares? its called capitalism. I see nothing wrong with advertising an xbox to your kids or trying to persuade a man to buy a new lawnmower.
I've never watched a lot of television, and didn't even own one when my first daughter was young. She's never been interested in it, and she and her husband only watch DVDs on theirs.
My youngest was another story. She watched a couple of PBS shows from time to time, but my husband watches a lot of tv and it's amazing what kids pick up just from being in the room where it's on, even if they're not paying attention. My wake-up call came when she was three years old. I mentioned that I had a headache and she told me "Take some Advil! It's advanced medicine for pain!" I just about fell out of my chair, and we had rules regarding television after that.
Yes, I know, what's your point?
naděje umírá poslední
And when assessing which side of this line a person is on, I use the cigar analogy. If you walk into a cigar bar, you'll find two kinds of cigar smokers: there are smokers who leave the labels on their cigars and those who remove them.
The smokers who leave the labels on their cigars are the materialistic tobacco enthusiasts. They just spent a wad of money on fine tobacco and they want people to know it.
But, then the question arises: What if the person just didn't feel like removing the label? Is there a practical reason for removing it?
Cigar labels have a tendency to slide up and down the cigar. This causes two problems: When the label slides into the gripping area of the cigar, its slick surface and loose fitting can cause gripping problems. When the label slides in the other direction, it can end up in the smoker's mouth. The cigar smoking experience is just easier and more enjoyable if the label is removed prior to lighting up. Also, if the smoker is someone who enjoys smoking the cigar down to the nub, it's better to remove the label so as not to smoke it along with the tobacco.
The exception is the person who hasn't yet experienced the inconveniences associated with cigar labels, and who probably thinks removing the label carries the same consequences as removing the tag from a mattress.
Then there's guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger who spend $20,000 for a box of Cuban Dunhills. That's just excessive. I don' think it's possible to taste $800 (25/box) in a stick of tobacco.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
My point is - if that is the definition - how many people do you know of where possessions truly are THE MOST important thing in their lives.
Just because people have tons of junk (like all of us on this board) does not make materialistic by that definition.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yes, I know very little people who consider their possessions the most important thing.
Anyway, I like the other two definitions more than the cambridge one because I doubt the are many people who consider their possessions more important than their family, for example.
I think materialist are the people who cannot imagine a life without all the luxuries. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having these things as you as you realize they are just things and your happiness doesn't depend on them.
So this is where I disagreed with that post that said we all partake in materialism because we have computers. I don't think that's true unless you truly believe that being not materialistic is not having anything like a computer, car or radio. You can have all these things and not be a materialist, in my opinion. To me, it's all about how much you value those things.
naděje umírá poslední
But the vast majority of the people in the world do not have the luxuries all of us do, so I would think that they view all of us as very materialistic.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
That's true. I guess you're right, it's all very relative. All I know is I could live without a lot of the things I have. I still live with my parents but when I move out I probably won't buy a all these new gadgets, I think it's a waste of money. But hey, as long as I live with my parents I might as well enjoy the luxuries they buy.
I can't wait until I move out and get my own place. It's weird I see young people getting bigger and bigger loans so they can afford a house, a car, new furniture, tv's ... People can't wait for anything, my parents always tell me when they built their house, they lived in one room for 6 months, didn't have hot water, no tv, not much furniture, they just read books, played games, talked... That's what I long for...
naděje umírá poslední
You have fun with that. Ill take the running water and electricity.
Pearl Jam is "media"--err,.. a medium.
i think i agree w/ you though: religion is how one lives,.. rather than how one appears.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Status = filling holes in our sense of self-worth
filling holes in our sense of self-worth = mommy and daddy didn't approve of me
mommy and daddy didn't approve of me = jesus loves me
jesus loves me = religion
religion = grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday
grandiose churches and wearing your "best outfit" on sunday = gaining approval from others
gaining approval from others = status
status = materialism
"My friends all drive porsches. I must make amends" - Janis Joplin
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Yeah, I might want running water and electricity too, wouldn't want anyone calling me a dirty hippie:)
naděje umírá poslední
Good for you. I really agree with that second paragraph. I'm debt free myself..except for my house which I have a lot of equity in. I have no student loan, no credit card debt, and a vehicle with over 100K miles that I own completely. Basically, if I can't pay for it in cash, I don't buy it.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You sure have a closed mind about churches. There are plenty where people do not dress up and the buildings are very plain.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.