ON HOMOSEXUALS IN IRAN:
I do not actually find it difficult to believe that in Iran they do "not have homosexuals, like in this country" ... does anyone here really picture a bunch of iranian men running around in boot shorts, and hard hats, talking with extreme lisps and grabbing eachothers bicepts while giggling?
I'm not making profiles of gay people, i'm illustrating a possible cultural difference ... i think very few countries have homosexuals (males, particularly) that are as outwardly "different" from heterosexuals as, say, the stereotypical San Francisco queer. They probably do have some geneticaly "gay" males in Iran, but i'm guessing they are far more "in the closet" and "reserved" in their "practice" than in America.
I completely agree with this, 100%. It takes a mindset of willingness and openness to UNDERSTAND what the other person says and what they mean, which necessitates suspending our own judgment in the name of understanding. I find it scary and alarming how people interpret what others, such as this leader say, through their own biases and preferences, assuming their interpretation is one and the same with what that leader said and intended. We project all of our darkness on others and think it's about them. People here are battling their own worst fears and think it's actually about this man. Scary.
edit: to add: it's also entirely possible that homosexuality is so shunned that the average person believes it does not exist--that those who experience such urges deny them, and it's swept under the rug--to go away.
It's shocking to me how we expect another culture/country to share our way of understanding. Other cultures don't perceive through the same cultural lenses that we do.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I completely agree with this, 100%. It takes a mindset of willingness and openness to UNDERSTAND what the other person says and what they mean, which necessitates suspending our own judgment in the name of understanding. I find it scary and alarming how people interpret what others, such as this leader say, through their own biases and preferences, assuming their interpretation is one and the same with what that leader said and intended. We project all of our darkness on others and think it's about them. People here are battling their own worst fears and think it's actually about this man. Scary.
edit: to add: it's also entirely possible that homosexuality is so shunned that the average person believes it does not exist--that those who experience such urges deny them, and it's swept under the rug--to go away.
It's shocking to me how we expect another culture/country to share our way of understanding. Other cultures don't perceive through the same cultural lenses that we do.
no way, I don't buy it. I have seen documentaries on Iran where younger people very much appreciate "western" life.
no way, I don't buy it. I have seen documentaries on Iran where younger people very much appreciate "western" life.
And because a percentage of people on this board think you blindly follow propaganda, does that make it true? In other words, what we "believe" or "buy" or not, is about us and our opinions. The truth is, we have no idea what it's like to live in that culture. And from this thread, it looks like many cannot even try to imagine anything beyond their own perceptions.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
And because a percentage of people on this board think you blindly follow propaganda, does that make it true? In other words, what we "believe" or "buy" or not, is about us and our opinions. The truth is, we have no idea what it's like to live in that culture. And from this thread, it looks like many cannot even try to imagine anything beyond their own perceptions.
Some people think "western" life is "consumerism," the good life. I'd like to think Western culture is a little more than that.
there are definitely gay people in iran ... and it indeed is a battle for acceptance there ... the cbc did a piece on being gay in iran a while back ... i think you can find it on youtube ... if 4 people witness you in act of homosexuality - you can be prosecuted for it ...
but, let's face it - although not punishable by death - it's not like gay people have it great everywhere else ... they can't even get married legally in most of the US ...
Some people think "western" life is "consumerism," the good life. I'd like to think Western culture is a little more than that.
I agree in the sense that outside shallow judgments of western culture are inaccurate and lacking, and that those of us actually experiencing the lifestyle here know there are many rich and colourful threads making up our cultural tapestries underlying the shallow and surface outside view. It's safe to assume that works with all cultures.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
::scratches head puzzled::
there was a time when i thought SNL was witty, relevant, and subversive. This sketch sort of just made it sink in that such a time is now just a fading memory. I'm not saying it sucked (well, in so many words) ... just that if they were going to sketch on a controversial current event, they could have chosen to do so in a way that was meaningful and brought something to the table ... i couldn't hear some of the song over the laughs, but what i did catch was just plain silly and irrelevant.
:(
Glad to see you stepping in to the debate though, Kat.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
everyone who takes up for him should think about what it's like to live under him...or anyone like him for that matter.
forget rock and roll, long hair...it goes on and on
if that's what you want, fly yr asses over there
I think the point is more along these lines:
Is simply having an oppressive elected* leader enough to get your country bombed and your people thrown in to a war where they die, and their region is thrown in to both flames and chaos?
[* note: you want to argue that the elections in iran weren't fair and didn't therefore count? you want yet another pathetic comparison to america? take a look at the last "election" we had! i seem to recall a few politicians even openly admitting it was a sham and a scam. google "hacking democracy"]
When i "take up" for him, it is not so much that i think Ahmadinejad is a super swell hip cat who loves freedom ... it is simply that i see that most all of what he is being charged with (pursuing nuclear weapons, threatening the destruction of israel, and state sponsored terrorism) are seemingly baseless assertions ... sure, it may suck to live in Iran (hell, i think it sucks to live in America sometimes)...
... but is it right for us to go to war with a nation -- on trumped up charges, just like Iraq, no less -- simply because their leader is a power-hungry homophobe?
Isn't the italicized phrase pretty much representative of OUR leader as well?
Should we have a civil war in America over that?
WTF?
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Is simply having an oppressive elected* leader enough to get your country bombed and your people thrown in to a war where they die, and their region is thrown in to both flames and chaos?
[* note: you want to argue that the elections weren't fair and they don't count? you want yet another pathetic comparison to america? take a look at the last "election" we had? i seem to recall a few politicians even openly admitting it was a sham and a scam. google "hacking democracy"]
When i "take up" for him, it is not so much that i think Ahmadinejad is a super swell hip cat who loves freedom ... it is simply that i see that most all of what he is being charged with (pursuing nuclear weapons, threatening the destruction of israel, and state sponsored terrorism) are seemingly baseless assertions ... sure, it may suck to live in Iran (hell, i think it sucks to live in America sometimes)...
... but is it right for us to go to war with a nation -- on trumped up charges, just like Iraq, no less -- simply because their leader is a power-hungry homophobe?
Isn't the italicized phrase pretty much representative of OUR leader as well?
Should we have a civil war in America over that?
WTF?
:(
To me, they are mysterious assertions. After all, how is it that President Bush welcomes India into the "nuclear network" while they have yet to sign on to the anti-nuclear proliferation act (or whatever the fuck its called). What of the billions Iran has spent to the US, Canada, and others to establish nuclear energy in that country?
These questions, among a million others, don't get answered, but they should.
Quite honestly it's because the general public is relegated, through the mainstream media, to the role of cheerleader, Driftin', and we can do better.
To me, the best thing about Amoji90j1O's visit is that it opened up dialogue between "enemies." This is good.
Comments
edit: to add: it's also entirely possible that homosexuality is so shunned that the average person believes it does not exist--that those who experience such urges deny them, and it's swept under the rug--to go away.
It's shocking to me how we expect another culture/country to share our way of understanding. Other cultures don't perceive through the same cultural lenses that we do.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
no way, I don't buy it. I have seen documentaries on Iran where younger people very much appreciate "western" life.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Some people think "western" life is "consumerism," the good life. I'd like to think Western culture is a little more than that.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
but, let's face it - although not punishable by death - it's not like gay people have it great everywhere else ... they can't even get married legally in most of the US ...
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/30/snl-season-opener-if-lov_n_66478.html
I guess that puts an end to that question.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
everyone who takes up for him should think about what it's like to live under him...or anyone like him for that matter.
forget rock and roll, long hair...it goes on and on
if that's what you want, fly yr asses over there
Lol!
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
::scratches head puzzled::
there was a time when i thought SNL was witty, relevant, and subversive. This sketch sort of just made it sink in that such a time is now just a fading memory. I'm not saying it sucked (well, in so many words) ... just that if they were going to sketch on a controversial current event, they could have chosen to do so in a way that was meaningful and brought something to the table ... i couldn't hear some of the song over the laughs, but what i did catch was just plain silly and irrelevant.
:(
Glad to see you stepping in to the debate though, Kat.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I think the point is more along these lines:
Is simply having an oppressive elected* leader enough to get your country bombed and your people thrown in to a war where they die, and their region is thrown in to both flames and chaos?
[* note: you want to argue that the elections in iran weren't fair and didn't therefore count? you want yet another pathetic comparison to america? take a look at the last "election" we had! i seem to recall a few politicians even openly admitting it was a sham and a scam. google "hacking democracy"]
When i "take up" for him, it is not so much that i think Ahmadinejad is a super swell hip cat who loves freedom ... it is simply that i see that most all of what he is being charged with (pursuing nuclear weapons, threatening the destruction of israel, and state sponsored terrorism) are seemingly baseless assertions ... sure, it may suck to live in Iran (hell, i think it sucks to live in America sometimes)...
... but is it right for us to go to war with a nation -- on trumped up charges, just like Iraq, no less -- simply because their leader is a power-hungry homophobe?
Isn't the italicized phrase pretty much representative of OUR leader as well?
Should we have a civil war in America over that?
WTF?
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
To me, they are mysterious assertions. After all, how is it that President Bush welcomes India into the "nuclear network" while they have yet to sign on to the anti-nuclear proliferation act (or whatever the fuck its called). What of the billions Iran has spent to the US, Canada, and others to establish nuclear energy in that country?
These questions, among a million others, don't get answered, but they should.
Quite honestly it's because the general public is relegated, through the mainstream media, to the role of cheerleader, Driftin', and we can do better.
To me, the best thing about Amoji90j1O's visit is that it opened up dialogue between "enemies." This is good.
edit: anti-nuclear proliferation treaty?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.